Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[Antonio90]

...Could someone extract some kind of waveform from his scope and post it?...

Done already for FFT from DHO800 here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5214702/#msg5214702

Thanks! But I also wanted to know if there is an easy way of extracting .CSV or other widely supported format via SCPI to process on Matlab and also get an example waveform extracted from the scope (if anyone has an HDO model and is able to post one), to muck around with it in the laptop. I'm mostly away from my home lab, and will be for some time, but have the laptop with me.

[RobbiOne]

Inside that web page:

https://int.rigol.com/products/detail/DHO1000

I just see a tech features of the scope and 3 links for manual, datasheet and demo request.
No firmware or download link.

Pro tip: Try the "Software & Firmware" section. Scroll down until you get to the light-grey background, then there's a menu bar(tab selector).

I don't find any firmware version for DHO scopes in the firmware download page of https://int.rigol.com/ web site. Just FW for DS, MS, DG, DM, RS, DL, DP scopes.

Post a valid link for the DHO FW 2.12 if it really exists.

[ebastler]

Post a valid link for the DHO FW 2.12 if it really exists.

For the third time: The link is https://int.rigol.com/products/detail/DHO1000.
Scroll down a bit, and check the attached screenshot to get your bearings.

Are you sure you are up to installing it? 

[Martin72]

What makes me a bit suspicious is that, at least in Europe, the promo for the DHO1000 will continue until the end of the year.
Not that there isn't an "MK2" version in the offing and they want to get the stocks of the "old" version out of the warehouses.
40% less is really a scoop, and then for so long...

[ebastler]

Well, we know that they have a "value engineered" variant ready with slightly lowered specs (memory, sampling rate), the -U series. Maybe some design changes to get rid of those hard-to-source parts in the original DHO1000 and 4000 as well. My guess is that the discounted price point is there to stay, and Rigol will just sell the more cost-effective DHO1000-U once the old inventory is gone.

EDIT: Just looked it up again, and apparently there are only 200 MHz versions of the -U variant. So maybe the 70 and 100 MHz DHO1000 are going to disappear, because -- at the reduced price -- they are too close to the DHO800?

A DHO1204-U priced a tad above the 924S would make some sense. But then Rigol really need to add LA and AWG-enabled DHOs with the large screen!

[Veteran68]

If they were trying to unload the DHO1000 line with a permanent price cut, why would they go back to regular MSRP pricing in NA already? The promo ended here on 12/4 I believe.

[RobbiOne]

Post a valid link for the DHO FW 2.12 if it really exists.

For the third time: The link is https://int.rigol.com/products/detail/DHO1000.
Scroll down a bit, and check the attached screenshot to get your bearings.

Are you sure you are up to installing it? 

Solved!  The international Rigol site is not an good example of professional web site. I looking for DHO FW in the support -> download page related to FW downloads for all Rigol devices and filtered just for scopes only:

https://supportint.rigol.com/SUPPORTS/software-firmware-download.html

and in that page doesn't exixt any FW for DHO series but just for all other series (why Rigol?).

The DHO FW links exist only in the DHO scope specific page (that's stupid and not intuitive at all) inside the Features section (?) of a specific scope model.

Thank you indeed Eblaster for your support.

Rigol EU shows as last FW version the v2.11 dated August 2023 but the v2.12 contains files dated October and so it seems the true last version with these modifications:
00.02.12 2023/10/18
     - Added DHO1202U and DHO1204U models
     - Fixed the problem of CAN decoding result misalignment when there is an error frame
     - Fixed the problem of wrong value in measurement when switching frequency meter source
     - Optimize customer experience of frequency meter statistics function
     - Fixed the issue where the median boundary value measurement results and cursor indication are incorrect when the display type is percentage.

[MPX]

00.02.12 2023/10/18

     - Fixed the problem of CAN decoding result misalignment when there is an error frame
     - Fixed the problem of wrong value in measurement when switching frequency meter source
     - Optimize customer experience of frequency meter statistics function
     - Fixed the issue where the median boundary value measurement results and cursor indication are incorrect when the display type is percentage.

[Veteran68]

And Rigol includes the changelog inside the downloaded archive

[core]

Well, we know that they have a "value engineered" variant ready with slightly lowered specs (memory, sampling rate), the -U series. Maybe some design changes to get rid of those hard-to-source parts in the original DHO1000 and 4000 as well. My guess is that the discounted price point is there to stay, and Rigol will just sell the more cost-effective DHO1000-U once the old inventory is gone.

EDIT: Just looked it up again, and apparently there are only 200 MHz versions of the -U variant. So maybe the 70 and 100 MHz DHO1000 are going to disappear, because -- at the reduced price -- they are too close to the DHO800?

A DHO1204-U priced a tad above the 924S would make some sense. But then Rigol really need to add LA and AWG-enabled DHOs with the large screen!

That's a very plausible explanation.

DHO1000 it's just a very good basic oscilloscope with high resolution and very low input stage noise.
Also, the big high resolution screen it's very good.

It have a lot of power processing, it's fast even with 4 math active windows, but that's all we got.

If the FFT will be optimised and improved (Max-Hold and Average), and adding the Dots mode and X Interpolation, will be enough for me.

For the promotional price still active in EU it's a very good deal. For the normal price not so much.

[egonotto]

Hello,

the data sheet of DHO1000 says "Internal Capacity 8 GB" but in the "Storage setting menu" I only have just over 4000 MB.

The bandwidth of my DHO1074 is about 85 MHz. With the 200 MHz license I also get about 200 MHz.

The noise in the 1 mV/div range in 20 MHz mode is also about 10 % worse with the 200 MHz license.

Even worse, the noise in the 1 mV/div range without bandwidth limitation is dramatically worse with the 200 MHz license. In channel 4 the noise triples.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

The bandwidth of my DHO1074 is about 85 MHz. With the 200 MHz license I also get about 200 MHz.

Interesting, maybe they use sharper filters.
Because DHO804 (70Mhz) got appx 125Mhz bandwith, with hacking to 100Mhz I´ve measured appx 200Mhz.

[thm_w]

Hello,
the data sheet of DHO1000 says "Internal Capacity 8 GB" but in the "Storage setting menu" I only have just over 4000 MB.
The bandwidth of my DHO1074 is about 85 MHz. With the 200 MHz license I also get about 200 MHz.
The noise in the 1 mV/div range in 20 MHz mode is also about 10 % worse with the 200 MHz license.
Even worse, the noise in the 1 mV/div range without bandwidth limitation is dramatically worse with the 200 MHz license. In channel 4 the noise triples.

The storage makes sense as that is free storage, android OS + the app, etc will take up 4GB easily, so probably they meant 8GB internal memory total in the datasheet.

Something is off with your BW though as I measured ~400MHz -3dB above.
- What is your signal source? Are you using 50R terminator? How many channels are active, do you have a trigger on the main channel that is active and not another channel? Run an FFT and look at the wfm.

The noise will go way up yeah, as I mention above they need to implement a reasonable filter. I don't know if their AFE has selectable hardware filtering or not. If the noise is getting worse even with BW limit on that is odd though 10% is not huge. Here is a FFT compare of 2GS vs 1GS:


I didn't measure pre/post hack but for CH1 I get 22uV (20MHz), 53uV (Max BW) on 1mV/div.

[egonotto]

Hello,

thank you for your answer. I used a T-piece with a 50 Ohm termination. The generator is a SDG6022X which had a different motherboard after a repair, with a SDG6052 license. I repeated the measurement with only channel 3 active and a sine wave with 4 Vpp.

At 1 KHz I measured 2 Vpp.
At 85 MHz I measured 1.4 Vpp.
At 100 MHz I measured 1.25 Vpp.
At 120 MHz I measured 1.03 Vpp.

This time I checked the voltage with an RTA4000 with 1 GHz bandwidth. RTA4000 always measured about 2 Vpp.


I'll get to the noise thing later, but the "I didn't measure pre/post hack but for CH1 I get 22uV (20MHz), 53uV (Max BW) on 1V/div." is probably at 1 mV/div?

Best regards
egonotto

[core]

The noise in the 1 mV/div range in 20 MHz mode is also about 10 % worse with the 200 MHz license.

Even worse, the noise in the 1 mV/div range without bandwidth limitation is dramatically worse with the 200 MHz license. In channel 4 the noise triples.

Best regards
egonotto

You can check my measurements here, it seems to be OK :
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/msg5207760/#msg5207760

I will try to replicate yours, just tell me the configuration. I have an SDG2042X unleashed.

[core]

Hello,

thank you for your answer. I used a T-piece with a 50 Ohm termination. The generator is a SDG6022X which had a different motherboard after a repair, with a SDG6052 license. I repeated the measurement with only channel 3 active and a sine wave with 4 Vpp.

At 1 KHz I measured 2 Vpp.
At 85 MHz I measured 1.4 Vpp.
At 100 MHz I measured 1.25 Vpp.
At 120 MHz I measured 1.03 Vpp.

Best regards
egonotto

I have about the same results, using 1Vpp :
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-hdo1khdo4k-rigol-12-bit-scope/msg5207655/#msg5207655

[core]

I've made some tests regarding High Resolution 14bit/16bit vs normal.

Signal source SDG2042X
- ch1 : ramp, 1kHz, 10mVpp, symm 50%
- ch2 : pulse, 4kHz, 3mVpp, pulse width 1us, rise edge 8.4ns
- wave combine output

HDO1074 with 50Ohm terminator, aquisition 50mV, 5ms.
Trigger single, stop, then zoom in from 50mV/5ms up to 1mV/1us

The 3mVpp/1us pulse it's very clear even in normal mode.

pictures for normal mode:

[core]

pictures for HiRes 14 mode:

[core]

pictures for HiRes 16 mode:

[core]

FFTs for the same signal, normal mode and HiRes16.
No difference.

[gf]

FFTs for the same signal, normal mode and HiRes16.
No difference.

Why would you expect a difference?
HiRes is a lowpass filter. At 2GSa/s, HiRes16 is supposed to reduce the noise bandwidth from 1GHz to 62.5 MHz.
So you will certainly not see any effect for signal or noise components in the 0...10kHz range.

[core]

FFTs for the same signal, normal mode and HiRes16.
No difference.

Why would you expect a difference?
HiRes is a lowpass filter. At 2GSa/s, HiRes16 is supposed to reduce the noise bandwidth from 1GHz to 62.5 MHz.
So you will certainly not see any effect for signal or noise components in the 0...10kHz range.

You are right. I was thinking that there is about the same relative low noise, under 120dB.
I have attached the FFT up to 1MHz, for the same signal. Normal and HiRes16.
There is an improvement, about 4-5dB at higher frequencies.

Anyway, the FFT on this scope it's not very versatile.

[gf]

I have attached the FFT up to 1MHz, for the same signal. Normal and HiRes16.

If you really want to see the full difference in the frequency domain, then rather use a 0...1GHz span.
And better do it even without any signal, so that you only see the noise floor.

EDIT: Sorry, I noticed too late that the FFT sample rate was only 20 MSa/s, so a 0...10 MHz span would be approriate.

[ A nast side effect of the lower FFT sample rate is of course that that folded aliases may garble the FFT display, although the time domain display (at full sample rate) does not show signs of aliasing. ]

[ebastler]

Rigol releases new DHO1000U series:

DHO1202U, 2 channel, 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 50Mpts(opt.), 500,000wfms/s
DHO1204U, 4 channel, 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 50Mpts(opt.), 500,000wfms/s

Chinese Datasheet:
https://www.rigol.com/file/DHO1000U%E6%95%B0%E6%8D%AE%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C.pdf

Not quite sure when that happened, but the 'U' models have appeared on Rigol's international site with USD pricing now, https://int.rigol.com/products/detail/DHO1000. $999 for the 2-channel model, $1199 for 4 channels. (Compared to $1399 and $1699 for the original DHO120x, which are also still listed.) The datasheet for the DHO1000 series has not been updated yet, but the basic (reduced) specs of the U version are mentioned. I don't know whether they are actually available for sale in the US yet?

On the European rigol.eu site the 'U' models are not yet mentioned. But the news there is that the DHO1072 is now listed as "sold out". So maybe the non-U models will indeed be sold off, and the future entry-level 12 bit product landscape will only have the DHO800, 900 and 120xU?

[core]

Thanks to Performa01's ideea regarding the alternative zoom from another thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5202036/#msg5202036

I've tried to apply the same for DHO1074, because we know that Rigol don't have vertical zoom, or "zone zoom".
In order to stabilize the waveform I've used the acquisition mode on average (256).
Acq. mem. auto, waveform signal StairUD 1MHz, 1.2Vpp from an Uni-T UTG962E (a very cute sig. generator).

See attached the original waveform and vertical zoom using the math function AX+B, where B=0.
- for the first pictures I've used the same vertical scale (100mV/div), with A=20
- for the second pictures I've used 5mV/div for math function, and A=1
Same result, of course.