Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[Antonio90]

I might do that too, although the SDS1000X-HD is much more appealing. The problem is the price, we only know the chinese prices, and I'm afraid we might see a 1199 tag plus VAT once it arrives to Europe.
I don't do anything in the digital domain other than the occasional protocol decode or signal integrity check, and I can always buy a Siglent AWG later on. But yeah, the price is the great unknown.

[Fungus]

Let's see whether a hack to enable the 50 Ohm inputs will materialize eventually... Or maybe Rigol decides to make this available as an option, for better differentiation vs. the DHO800? Or the 50 Ohm inputs remain unusable forever, which would not be a catastrophe at 200 MHz max. bandwidth.

50 Ohm is mostly there to avoid reflections in the line. I don't think there will be much difference between internal/external 50 Ohm at that bandwidth.

Aside: I wonder how high the bandwidth can go on the DHO1000 series? The DHO4000 goes to 800MHz. We need to see some hacking of these... :-)

[ebastler]

50 Ohm is mostly there to avoid reflections in the line.
I don't think there will be much difference between internal/external 50 Ohm at that bandwidth.

I wonder how high the bandwidth can go on the DHO1000 series? The DHO4000 goes to 800MHz. 

That's why I said that it wouldn't be a catastrophe to make do without the internal termination up to 200 MHz. (But it would be nice not to have to search for the 50 Ohm pass-through terminator, and not to bump into it all the time when it is installed.)

Dave's teardown of the DHO1000 and 4000 suggested that they have the exact same frontend. But since the license protection of the 1000/4000 seems structured similar to the 800/900 series, all 4000-only features may be out of reach for hackers of the DHO1000. I don't think it is realistic to make the DHO1000 believe that it's a 4000; there's an ADC missing... So I am buying this assuming I will get a 200 MHz scope, not more.

[Antonio90]

The frontend is quite similar, and has the 50 Ohms input, but it's not identical. In the upper right part of each input channel there are a few components arranged in a different way, just next to the frontend chip.

Edit: the pcb looks slightly different in that area too. Maybe it is just due to the manufacturing date, and current DHO4000 is the same.

[Martin72]

https://www.batronix.com/versand/rigol/DHO1000.html

Batronix now has all 1000 models in stock (not yet last week), so I can hardly imagine that this is a discontinued model series.
Hm, or exactly because they didn't offer any 1000s for a year....

Batronix unfortunately can't match Rigol's Black Friday discount on the DHO1074.

The Black Friday promotion runs from 24.11. to 30.11.
I would take another look tomorrow, keyword best price

[skander36]

Aside: I wonder how high the bandwidth can go on the DHO1000 series? The DHO4000 goes to 800MHz. We need to see some hacking of these... :-)

I said with another ocassions. It can go to 800 MHz when is applied vendor.bin method. But without modifications of the main application it cannot be used as it expect 2 ADC's and route signal trough both channels and double the measured frequency. You can use it however with one channel to see the amplitude of the signal and how it look also 50 ohm is working. Rigol has make sure that the scope cannot be an easy hack, as with the licenses. Otherwise nobody would buy the 4K series.
EDIT - added a few pics

[ebastler]

Batronix unfortunately can't match Rigol's Black Friday discount on the DHO1074.

The Black Friday promotion runs from 24.11. to 30.11.
I would take another look tomorrow, keyword best price

Apparently there are limits to the "best price" promise. I did ask Batronix today, since I would have preferred to buy from them, but their answer was "sorry, we can't match that".

If they were allowed/enabled (by Rigol EU) to match that price tomorrow, I assume they would have told me so. And it would still feel like bad business practices by Rigol EU to allow their distributors to give the discount only starting on the 24th, but sell direct at the -40% discount days before. 

[core]

https://www.batronix.com/versand/rigol/DHO1000.html

Batronix now has all 1000 models in stock (not yet last week), so I can hardly imagine that this is a discontinued model series.
Hm, or exactly because they didn't offer any 1000s for a year....

Batronix unfortunately can't match Rigol's Black Friday discount on the DHO1074.

The Black Friday promotion runs from 24.11. to 30.11.
I would take another look tomorrow, keyword best price

On rigol.eu the quotations are now without the 10% discount. So tomorrow for DHO1072 the price (now 699 euro + VAT ) will probably be about 419 euro + VAT and for DHO1074 about 599 euro + VAT.

DHO1074 seems to be a very good deal, and DHO1072 probably the best selling for the next 6 days.

More DHO users on eevblog, more interest to "improve" them.

[ebastler]

On rigol.eu the quotations are now without the 10% discount. So tomorrow for DHO1072 the price (now 699 euro + VAT ) will probably be about 419 euro + VAT and for DHO1074 about 599 euro + VAT.

Yep, but they have been selling at discounts up to 40% (varying by model and country) via Amazon since the beginning of this week. 599€ + VAT for the DHO1074 in Germany today, for example.

More DHO users on eevblog, more interest to "improve" them.

There already is a good body of hacking knowledge, in a DHO1000/4000-specific hacking thread and a DHO800/900 thread, where a lot of the ideas seem directly applicable to the 1000/4000 too:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-hdo1khdo4k-rigol-12-bit-scope/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-dho800900-scope/

The easiest approach is to generate upgrade license keys via a script:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-dho800900-scope/msg5148330/#msg5148330

But that does not give the DHO800 and DHO1000 access to options which Rigol has only enabled in the respective higher-end models (900 and 4000 series). If you want these, you can make a DHO800 think it's a 900 with limited side effects, by swapping out the vendor.bin file. But doing the same with a DHO1000 will give you a 4000 model with two broken channels, since the second ADC is missing, and is a proprietary Rigol part.

[Kosmic]

Are they still mentioning the 50\$\Omega\$ input on the front panel of the DHO1000 ? Or it was just on the promotional pictures and it's not printed on real units ?

[core]

But that does not give the DHO800 and DHO1000 access to options which Rigol has only enabled in the respective higher-end models (900 and 4000 series). If you want these, you can make a DHO800 think it's a 900 with limited side effects, by swapping out the vendor.bin file. But doing the same with a DHO1000 will give you a 4000 model with two broken channels, since the second ADC is missing, and is a proprietary Rigol part.

Switching two vendor.bin files could be a temporary solution to select DHO1000 / DHO4000 if we can get a functional DHO4000 with 2 channels this way.

[ebastler]

Are they still mentioning the 50\$\Omega\$ input on the front panel of the DHO1000 ? Or it was just on the promotional pictures and it's not printed on real units ?

Mine has not arrived yet -- and then I will probably not be allowed to unpack it until Christmas... But here's an actual user with a DHO1072 (not HDO, hence not an early model) which has the 50 Ohm labelling: https://youtu.be/JlnJPfRygKw, e.g. around 7:00 minutes.

So maybe Rigol do have a plan in their back pocket to offer a 50 Ohm upgrade option if and when the competitive situation requires.

[Kosmic]

Are they still mentioning the 50\$\Omega\$ input on the front panel of the DHO1000 ? Or it was just on the promotional pictures and it's not printed on real units ?

Mine has not arrived yet -- and then I will probably not be allowed to unpack it until Christmas... But here's an actual user with a DHO1072 (not HDO, hence not an early model) which has the 50 Ohm labelling: https://youtu.be/JlnJPfRygKw, e.g. around 7:00 minutes.

So maybe Rigol do have a plan in their back pocket to offer a 50 Ohm upgrade option if and when the competitive situation requires.

Still 1 year after the introduction the option is still not there and it just look silly.

[ebastler]

Still 1 year after the introduction the option is still not there and it just look silly.

Maybe they will eventually enable it just to avoid the embarrassment.
Or they are printing it as a courtesy to the successful hackers who get 50 Ohm inputs activated.

[Kosmic]

Still 1 year after the introduction the option is still not there and it just look silly.

Maybe they will eventually enable it just to avoid the embarrassment.
Or they are printing it as a courtesy to the successful hackers who get 50 Ohm inputs activated.

Hehe yes maybe 

[NE666]

Are they still mentioning the 50\$\Omega\$ input on the front panel of the DHO1000 ? Or it was just on the promotional pictures and it's not printed on real units ?

Yes, it would seem so.  Mine has just been delivered from Amazon UK and it's a DHO (not HDO) and still carries the 50 ohm termination text.

[Martin72]

LOL,
Now it´s back to 40% off again:
https://www.amazon.de/HDO1072-Digitaloszilloskop-EXT-Kanal-1-500-000-Touch-Display/dp/B0BJ31PHLN?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

[thm_w]

That's why I said that it wouldn't be a catastrophe to make do without the internal termination up to 200 MHz. (But it would be nice not to have to search for the 50 Ohm pass-through terminator, and not to bump into it all the time when it is installed.)

Dave's teardown of the DHO1000 and 4000 suggested that they have the exact same frontend. But since the license protection of the 1000/4000 seems structured similar to the 800/900 series, all 4000-only features may be out of reach for hackers of the DHO1000. I don't think it is realistic to make the DHO1000 believe that it's a 4000; there's an ADC missing... So I am buying this assuming I will get a 200 MHz scope, not more.

Depending on your setup, a BNC T could work to avoid the stickout.
I'm 90% sure I'd blow up the 50R input at some point if it were internal. So easy to put 12V DC into the scope at the wrong time.

[Martin72]

Regarding the 50 Ohm "issue", I have made an inquiry, let's see if they (Rigol.eu) can still remember me and give a correspondingly quick and adequate answer.

[ebastler]

Depending on your setup, a BNC T could work to avoid the stickout.
I'm 90% sure I'd blow up the 50R input at some point if it were internal. So easy to put 12V DC into the scope at the wrong time.

I have sometimes used a BNC T + terminator in a pinch. But the termination/match is not as good, and they tend to get in the way of the knobs on most of the input jacks.

Where did Thorlabs find a 5 kOhm terminator for that photo? 

[2N3055]

Where did Thorlabs find a 5 kOhm terminator for that photo? 

THEY sell them. For various detectors...

[ebastler]

Where did Thorlabs find a 5 kOhm terminator for that photo? 

THEY sell them. For various detectors...

Used as a load then, not an impedance-matching terminator. In which case the BNC T arrangement should be fine.

[2N3055]

Where did Thorlabs find a 5 kOhm terminator for that photo? 

THEY sell them. For various detectors...

Used as a load then, not an impedance-matching terminator. In which case the BNC T arrangement should be fine.

Exactly.

[Antonio90]

https://www.batronix.com/versand/rigol/DHO1000.html

Batronix now has all 1000 models in stock (not yet last week), so I can hardly imagine that this is a discontinued model series.
Hm, or exactly because they didn't offer any 1000s for a year....

Batronix unfortunately can't match Rigol's Black Friday discount on the DHO1074.

The Black Friday promotion runs from 24.11. to 30.11.
I would take another look tomorrow, keyword best price

Batterfly has the 40% off promotion. I really don't understand why Batronix can't match the price.

[skander36]

Batterfly has the 40% off promotion. I really don't understand why Batronix can't match the price.

Right now they can ...