Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[Martin72]

Hi,

Today I´ve played with the Ultra mode again, the update rates, table will follow.
And for the very last I did a short "silent movie"  about the very nice UI...



And now time to say goodbye rigol..Many thanks to batronix for the support.

[teddychn]

And unfortunately the "default" and "auto setup" buttons are directly touchable on the rigol (on the same height like the other buttons).
This is the price you must pay for a smaller design I guess, altough there´s a little space left on the front, see pic.
Roll mode you can access via the acquire menu ( just press the acquire button on the front or touch the horizontal icon on the screen (or the field with the samplerate)).
Roll mode is either auto or off - the "scale" shows 50ms, but you can´t change it, maybe reserved for future firmware update.

Thanks, Martin,

I compared the SDS2000X Plus with the 2000X HD and the HDO4000. Although the 2000X HD has seven fewer buttons than the 2000X Plus, I still can feel comfortable using it. The HDO4000 has more buttons and knobs than the 2000X HD, but I'm not sure about its maneuverability. However, its auto-scroll mode sounds good, and the graphical interface should make it more manageable.

Actually, I just dislike switching between normal/auto mode back and forth for some trigger modes on some scopes.

Ted

[Martin72]

Summary of my 2.5 week test of the Rigol DHO4204 Scope, part 1.

As mentioned at the beginning, the "touch quality" is very decent, even if it doesn't quite reach that of an SDS2000X HD.
Despite the 10" screen, it is compact in size and should fit on any table.
The screen itself is clear and bright, and the resolution is very good.
The touch panel is precise and responds quickly.
The absolute minus point are the fans, the Scope produces a volume that is only surpassed by the infamous WaveJet series from Lecroy - very annoying and cannot be a permanent condition.
The boot time is pleasantly short, after a bit more than half a minute you can already start.
Now we come to the two highlights, so for me personally.
On the one hand, of course, the 12-bit resolution plus the pleasingly low noise - I only knew this from Siglent, but it's nice that Rigol has it now.
The second highlight is without any doubt the new graphical user interface.
No long searching around, everything is accessible as if on a platter, really very well done, you don't really need the "hardware buttons" anymore - This just calls for a tabletscope from Rigol.
Less good are the undoubtedly existing bugs and the somewhat meager equipment in general.
For example, the FFT function, which sometimes delivers confusing results, the lack of functionality (no averaging, no peak detect mode, no chooseable amount of points).
That you can not swap the parameters in measurements, only add or take away, that something is wrong with the acquisition modes, can not be right, that you can not switch between vector and dot mode, etc, etc..
But these are things that Rigol can easily fix with software updates, in my opinion.
Part 2 follows.

[Martin72]

Here the table with the wfms/s.
As mentioned before this can´t be the normal mode on the rigol.
Ultra and "Normal" are looking very similar, the blindtime between the packages are greater in the ultra mode.
Second part of my summary will following in the evening..
Martin

[rf-loop]

Here the table with the wfms/s.
As mentioned before this can´t be the normal mode on the rigol.
Ultra and "Normal" are looking very similar, the blindtime between the packages are greater in the ultra mode.
Second part of my summary will following in the evening..
Martin

In Sequence mode there is important to measure guaranteed maximum speed. This what matters.
In Sequence mode we need trust what is minimum trigger interval when not any single trigger event do not drop out! (reason is, imho, obvious)

With 50ns/div SDS200XHD is most fast.
Its guaranteed maximum speed is (my data) ~511,5 ksegment/s
How to test it. You need burst signal. (I have measured it using 80000 pulse burst and segments in oscilloscope sequence 80000.  And other t/div / memory values using maximal amount of segments in sequence.

Set scope for 50ns/div, 1k memory length. No matter if dots or vectors and if interpolation is Sinc or x.
Set sequence for 80000 segments
Then without signal start oscilloscope Sequence (now it is waiting trigger)

Start burst. As long as it capture all 80000 signal signal speed is below sequence acquisition guaranteed max speed.
Set now busrt (example pulses, freq 568180kHz as is value in your table)
Somewhere before 80000 it stops acquisition (and waiting more pulses) because some pulses are dropped out , not captured.
Now drop this burst frequency until it can reliable capture every single pulse. Repeat it over ten times until you are sure it never drops any single pulse (segment).

I can say guaranteed maximum speed is 510 ksegment/s (perhaps tiny bit over but there need be some marginal if promise something)

Then about normal mode wfm/s speed.  In your table it looks like there is peak value what exist inside acquisition cycle burst.
When we talk wfm/s speed we need handle it using average speed (this we  can use example for propability calculations for glitch hunting etc)
SDS2000XHD  maximum average wfm/s speed is 98kwfm/s  (display mode dots, 50ns/div, single channel in use and trigger just basic edge)
Peak value inside acquisition burst is just bit over 108kwfm/s as is in your table. This is not wfm/s speed it is peak value.
I have measured average speed using HP53131A (with very accurate reference).

Here below is part from my old tests (it is still "preliminary")




Then yesterday and today I did some check about these my values and I did not find errors... (naturally values are bit rounded (down)) :

ETA: Later now after carefully look my collected data...  there are some inexplicable exceptions what need further tests and with some different test method.



During normal wfm/s test  display looks this below.



Next image below. SDS2000X HD  Trig out is connected to SDS2000X Plus. Here can see how it looks like.
Same trig out out signal what go to SDS2kX+ input is splitted and go to HP53131A input and there is used 3s gate time for get value what can see in my table. 



Using these kind of fast universal counters need use enough long gate time because signal is not continuous wfm. Also when test other wfm speed with other settings counter Auto trigger leveling may lead to very weird results >> manual level set.

I will not comment on Rigol's results. But the things said earlier about Siglent also raised some small doubts about the Rigol numbers.

@Martin72
What is your SDS2000X HD    HW version?

[Martin72]

@rf-loop:
2.0

[rf-loop]

@rf-loop:
2.0

Ok.

Later after Rigol tests etc when you have better time, I will ask you repeat exactly this same what you can see in my images and also as told about Sequence guaranteed speed measuring.
Just perfectly same signal input, including all same settings and then other scope looking SDS2kXHD Trig Out as in my image displayed. So we can see if this acquisition burst have any timing change. We can look it example here or other place so that this thread does not forked off into a side road

[Martin72]

Hi,
Yep, can do, will do and then in the mentioned thread.
I need a second scope for this, it could be a sds2104X from work or ws422 when "repaired".
Or...A rigol HDO1074.   

[Fungus]

Or...A rigol HDO1074.   

Sensible choice. 

[Martin72]

Here again in summary, my further impressions, part 2

What I liked was the speed of the scope, it was always pretty snappy no matter what was happening/being calculated on the screen.
The decoding was a bit bumpy at first, since the triggering has to be set pretty precisely to display plausible values, but then I liked the visual representation of the table better than with the Siglent, which rather "merges" with the background, because of the same color.
The idea with the sliding windows is great, but a bit tricky to use, especially if you want to move the windows so that they visually make sense.
The connection via LAN worked as I had imagined.
Overall, it's a good scope, but it could be even better if Rigol makes the effort this time and optimizes the software in the near future.

I don't really like comparisons, but there's no getting around it.
The model I had costs about 3200 € including taxes.
The comparison with the 2000X+HD is obvious, because it costs 3550€ incl. taxes and is the next 12 bit scope, after that it gets expensive(I know, I know...Owon...But please people...This is not a comparison, don't force me to prove it  ).
If I can spend 3200, I can spend 3550, so let's leave that little difference out of it.
Likewise, we can leave the screen size out of it, because they are the same size.
Both have 12 bit resolution and are very low noise, so we leave that out too.
What's left.
A comparison of the (imho) important key features:

DHO4000:                                2000X HD:
- 1280x800 screenresolution     - 1024x600
- 4GSa/s max. Samplerate        - 2GSa/s max
- 800Mhz max bandwith            - 500Mhz max
- 500Mpt max memory              - 200Mpt max
- Hdmi output                           - No video output
- No MSO                                 - MSO
- No Bode Plot                          - Bode Plot
- Active probe inputs                 - No active probe input
- No awg inbuild                       - Inbuild awg

In my opinion, however, you can only compare and then decide when the rigol has been optimized in terms of software.
I am somewhat branded by the MSO5000, which has not been optimized to this day.
Should rigol come to its senses and support the new scope accordingly, it would without question be a serious competitor, depending on what features you prefer.
At the moment it is not.
(And not for me anyway, since I need bode plot).
Thanks for reading, I'll make another post with links to some of my posts here.
And who knows, maybe I'll grab the DHO1000 and compare it to the 2000X+, I'm still thinking about it right now.

[Fungus]

The elephant in the room is that the DHO1000 is almost identical for a third of the price.

[Martin72]

Yes and no.
After having the "big brother" for 2.5 weeks, I´ve made up my mind about the "little one".
They(rigol) have stripped the DHO1000 down to the common core of 12 bit and the 10 inch display.
Therefore, it can no longer be compared directly, rather with the competition from its own price range, the 2000X+ and the MSO5000.
And even then it doesn't look good for the 1000, it still has the advantage of the 12 bit resolution, but almost everything else is below the other two scopes.
But I would rather check it out live myself instead of just judging by the spec sheet.
Let's see if this works out, I would also want to borrow it, but Batronix doesn't have DHO1000...
I´ll start a request elsewhere.

[gogoman]

Here the table with the wfms/s.
As mentioned before this can´t be the normal mode on the rigol.
Ultra and "Normal" are looking very similar, the blindtime between the packages are greater in the ultra mode.
Second part of my summary will following in the evening..
Martin

Hello I'm in need of some help  , Is the screen image formed by taking multiple pass, it does not appear at 2ns that a single write of 40 or 80 points is adequate to represent a visual image.

thanks

[gogoman]

Hm, you're right..
Will check it after work.

It is 120Mhz, but will measured between 119..121Mhz.
BUT: Rigol have a hardware (I guess) counter...
Following pics with 120Mhz and 1Vrms, look at the Vrms measure.

Hello, The noise floor of the Rigol, is elevated, then flattens out. Where as the Siglent is flat from start to stop frequency.
Why is this the case and what is the impact of the different in the time domain?

thanks gogo

[2N3055]

Hm, you're right..
Will check it after work.

It is 120Mhz, but will measured between 119..121Mhz.
BUT: Rigol have a hardware (I guess) counter...
Following pics with 120Mhz and 1Vrms, look at the Vrms measure.

Hello, The noise floor of the Rigol, is elevated, then flattens out. Where as the Siglent is flat from start to stop frequency.
Why is this the case and what is the impact of the different in the time domain?

thanks gogo

Rigol has Hires mode ON. Hires mode is software filter that filters out high frequencies while interpolating more resolution..

In time domain it means a lower BW. In this case it behaves as 120 MHz BW scope.

[Martin72]

Hello I'm in need of some help  , Is the screen image formed by taking multiple pass, it does not appear at 2ns that a single write of 40 or 80 points is adequate to represent a visual image.

It depends on the display mode, dot or vector.
First let you see only the single dots, last "connects" the dots together to a line.
The rigol got only vector mode.

[idolclub]

Rigol releases new firmware v00.02.07 for DHO1000 and DHO4000 ~ 2023.05.17

[Model Supported] All the DHO1000 and DHO4000 series oscilloscopes
[Latest Revision Date] 2023/04/29


[Updated Contents]

00.02.07  2023/04/29

     - Custom external attenuation ratio
     - Add the merge display function of MATH window and simulation window
     - Add the window shrink function through Pass-Fail
     - Cursor module zero stagnation function, to solve the problem that the cursor is difficult to capture 0V first
     - Add a toggle switch for merging screens, which can display cursors in each split screen and synchronize the cursors
     - The measurement function adds [cursor area] measurement function requirements
     - Fixed crash issue in German mode
     - Pause to keep the afterglow display after turning on the waveform hold
     - Fixed the truncation problem of enlarged waveform after stoping
     - Fixed the problem that the adjustment trigger point could not be adjusted back to the middle of the screen after moving to the right for more than -50S under a large time base
     - Fixed Crash problem when restarting with probe


00.02.04  2022/12/14

-Released the production version


Download:
https://supportcn.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/Firmware/DHO1000&DHO4000(ARM)UpdateV00.02.07.zip

[svetlov]

something new came out 

[Martin72]

Due to the name changing batronix sells it´s HDO stock for 10% less:

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-HDO4204.html

too bad they don't have the HDO1000...

[egonotto]

Hello,

I was wondering which device (Rigol HDO4000 or Siglent SDS2000X HD) is better in terms of noise. In the video "EEVblog 1501 - Rigol HDO4000 Low Noise 12bit Oscilloscope Unboxing & First Impression" Dave shows different measurements regarding noise.

He uses different memory sizes. With 1 MSample, the noise is significantly smaller than with 250 MSamples. This is because the HDO4000 then averages samples and therefore looks better.

I then used samples that Dave and Martin72 kindly provided and modified a program from Peter (PeDre) to determine histogram and RMS and peak peak.
Since I am not familiar with Matlab, my changes are certainly quite bumbling.

All in all, I think that the Siglent has the edge in terms of noise.

Best Regards
egonotto

Addendum: Rigol's data is true 16 bit. The data of Siglent is 12 bit. The 4 least significant bits are there 0.  This means that the data from the Rigol has already been processed. One problem with the comparison is the dynamic range, which is unknown to me.

[egonotto]

Hello,

one picture was missing.

Best Regards
egonotto

[Fungus]

Why does one scale say "10^4" and the other scale says "10^7"?

[egonotto]

Hello,

for the Rigol I have only a file with 1 MSamples. For Siglent I have a file with 200 MSamples.

What makes the comparisons problematic is the lack of information on how the conversion is made into volts, i.e. the unknown dynamic range.

Best regards
egonotto
 

[Bit2023]

Hi, would it be possible to post some pictures on the FFT function of the DHO1074?

I'm planning to use that FFT function to check RF frequencies (up to 450MHz), would I be able to do this with the DHO1074 FFT funtion? would I be able to detect harmonics higher than 450MHz?

thank you

[Fungus]

Hi, would it be possible to post some pictures on the FFT function of the DHO1074?

I'm planning to use that FFT function to check RF frequencies (up to 450MHz), would I be able to do this with the DHO1074 FFT funtion? would I be able to detect harmonics higher than 450MHz?

The DHO1074 only has 70MHZ bandwidth so looking at 450MHz signals simply won't work.

Even if you hack it to 200Mhz it still isn't going to work. You might see some extremely attenuated remnant of a 450MHz signal but the first harmonic will be at 900MHz so... nope.