Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[Martin72]

@Fungus : Will come with a summary.
@Rob : Hm...new model ? Is this the reason why we still hear nothing about a firmware update fo the HD..
Edit: Quirks...
I had an interesting freeze on the rigol yesterday.
After "hard powering on" scope switched on automatically, booting, screen appeared but you couldn't do anything.

[tv84]

@Rob : Hm...new model ? Is this the reason why we still hear nothing about a firmware update fo the HD..

Martin, start saving!!!!!

[Martin72]

Not for a low cost model..
I would start saving for one of these three scopes:
SDS6000A H12, MSX04 or HDO6034 A or B.
Everything else wouldn´t be a step forward.

[maxwell3e10]

I have Rigol HDO4000 on order now. For me HDO1000 is not really dramatically different from 12 bit Owon scopes that have been around for a while and I think work reasonably well. But HDO4000 with a possibility of a nearly 1 GHz bandwidth is tempting. As for MXO4, it looks nice but no one posted so far the noise spectrum or the real waveform update rate in analog applications like averaging. So at some point I may have to request a demo as well.

[tautech]

Not for a low cost model..
I would start saving for one of these three scopes:
SDS6000A H12, MSX04 or HDO6034 A or B.
Everything else wouldn´t be a step forward.

Not available to the west.
Although the 12 bit 20 GSa/s SDS7000A will be.

[Martin72]

Not available to the west.

I know and that´s a big "mistake"in my opinion.
Imagine rigol deciding to build a scope with one centaurus chip per channel, with 12" full hd display and a more "mature" software, because they have drawn the right conclusions from the bugs and missing features of the hdo 1000/4000 series...
The price (if you take the difference from HDO4000 to HDO1000) could be around 7000 for the entry level model.
And that would still be a bit cheaper than the 6000A and that has only 8bit here.
Let's hope rigol doesn't come up with this idea.

[tautech]

Not available to the west.

I know and that´s a big "mistake"in my opinion.
Imagine rigol deciding to build a scope with one centaurus chip per channel, with 12" full hd display and a more "mature" software, because they have drawn the right conclusions from the bugs and missing features of the hdo 1000/4000 series...
The price (if you take the difference from HDO4000 to HDO1000) could be around 7000 for the entry level model.
And that would still be a bit cheaper than the 6000A and that has only 8bit here.
Let's hope rigol doesn't come up with this idea.

You know better and overlook whom Siglent partner with whom has a say if their HW is to be marketed to the west.
SDS7000A is very different as Siglent have spun their own chip, SFA8001.
More on it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg4642900/#msg4642900

[Martin72]

Let´s talk about there:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg4709066/#msg4709066

On-Topic:

For me HDO1000 is not really dramatically different from 12 bit Owon scopes that have been around for a while and I think work reasonably well.

I´ve looked on the owon portfolio, I can´t see a (hi-res)model which you could really compare to the rigol.

[Martin72]

Playing around with the webcontrol..
What I miss the looking for a new firmware button.
The rest works like expected, the click of the rigol site there leads to the chinese version, where you can see a beast..

[Fungus]

Do the HDOs have any built-in apps like Micsigs do? Can you surf the web, etc.?

[maxwell3e10]

For me HDO1000 is not really dramatically different from 12 bit Owon scopes that have been around for a while and I think work reasonably well.

I´ve looked on the owon portfolio, I can´t see a (hi-res)model which you could really compare to the rigol.

They have had 12 bit models from 2-channel 100 MHz for less than $400: XDS2102a  to 4 ch, 200 MHz for $1300: XDS3204AE. Some of the specs may not be as good, but they had them for a long time, so I am just saying Rigol HDO1000 is not a big step up.
 

[Martin72]

Do the HDOs have any built-in apps like Micsigs do? Can you surf the web, etc.?

Didn´t found anything in that direction.

[Martin72]

Measures/Tests of today, splitting in several posts..
First I think I´ve found another bug on the rigol.
Intensity grading or better color grading:
Intensity grading is the best you can have on the market, as always from rigol.
But color grading got a bug: switching to color grade deactivate the intensity regulation, it seems it´s always at 100%, no adjustments possible.
Interesting: When you are in the ultra acquire mode, intensity is deactivated too, but additional in normal and color display mode.
Pics are taken from the rigol and siglent HD, AM signal and SPO signal from the STB-3 demo board.

[skander36]

But color grading got a bug: switching to color grade deactivate the intensity regulation, it seems it´s always at 100%, no adjustments possible.

Not a bug. The same is on Rigol 5K, intensity grading is deactivateed on color grading.
For me, a bug is how color grading is looking, as I said before. They choosed a fire color scheme but it's not fine graded ...

[Martin72]

Hm,

Then it´s a bug and missing feature...
I don't remember if I had played with intensitiy grading when I took these pictures from my MSO5074:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2240724/#msg2240724

[Martin72]

Interesting behaviour when decoding is active..
Had tried SPI and RS232, after a few annoying moments I had it running.
Then I wanted to test up to which time base length the signals are still decoded (packages).
Ended with a little surprise...


(forget it, roll mode was active..)

[Martin72]

Decoding, continued..

For the siglent, RS232 at 50ms or more are no problem, it decodes and decodes and decodes...
Setting were quickly done and when you press "copy to trigger" all become rock-stable...very cool.
The rigol got a button "copy trigger", but it is not clear what will happen when pressed, it doesn´t act like on the siglent.
Apart from that I like the table design of the rigol more with it´s black&white display.
Moving the windows is a cool thing, but not intuitive to use.
In summary, the siglent decodes more stable.
Pics: Decoding RS232, SPI, etc..

[skander36]

Interesting behaviour when decoding is active..
Had tried SPI and RS232, after a few annoying moments I had it running.
Then I wanted to test up to which time base length the signals are still decoded (packages).
Ended with a little surprise...

https://youtu.be/B_qN3jAf9sU

You have to put Roll to off. (from Horizontal settings menu)

[Martin72]

Ahh....
Didn´t notice the auto roll mode starting at 50ms...
Thanks !

[Martin72]

The very last of today...

Copy trigger (decode mode): On the siglent it is obviously (copy from trigger, coppy to trigger), see pic.
Then measuring in general:
First I like the arrangement very much, you tap on the measure window and get a short menu on the left side - really cool 
But there´s something really annoying with it.
You couldn´t change the measure parameter in it...
You have to add a new measure window or remove the "old" and then add one with the wanted parameter, that´s really uncool and something for the wishlist to change.
The demoboard got some signals not only decoding types, runt, glitch, pulse, burst, etc.
Tested all, no issues with it.
And then there is a signal "noisy pwm" for demonstrating the Eres function.
Works perfectly on the rigol.
After all testings I´ve started to measure the update rate, will try to finish it before I must send it back.
What I´ve seen so far is, that the updates are always in "packages" regardless in which acquisition mode the scope is.
Or it is simply updates with "long" blind time inbetween.
The maximum I´ve measured was about 500000 wfms/s, will try it again in one of the next evenings.
Time is running out, can test something else until next wednesday evening, on thursday the scope will be send back.

Edit: BTW, in this time of testing the scope hangs two times.
First the screen becomes dark and a white windows appears with the request to start the "rigol app" again, the second I´ve already seen.
Scope was starting automatically after plug in the mains, boots and then freezes, the power button lit orange.
(Red = Stby, green = on)

[Martin72]

Testing update rates...
Will make a table next weekend, here some pics from the HDs update rate signal.
Looks plausible to me, just what you'd expect from it.
Max Wfms/s normal mode 108690, sequence mode 568180.

So far, so good.
Then the rigol scope...WTF...
As far it could get same settings, normal mode, no measures active, auto memory, one channel active.
Now hold your breath, the maxmimum rate is 1666730 Wfms/s 
The second fast is also above the million, 1111060 Wfms/s....
This couldn´t be the normal acquisition mode, never ever...
Two reasons why:
Rigol itself claimed about 50000 Wfms/s in normal mode, the trigger output signals are in packages just like you were in sequence mode.
With a timebase of 2µs, it´s the first time the rigol drops down and comes near the 50k, 47619 Wfms/s.
The siglent reaches 4762 Wfms/s BUT 45454 Wfms/s in sequence mode.
This not normal mode what you have on the rigol...
(Note: rigol_normal_20ns screenshot was cutted below, for what reason ever )

[Martin72]

In ultra acquistion mode you get the same results, more or less.
One difference, the pauses between the packages are way more longer, inbetween seconds(maybe depending on the frame/timeout settings)..

[teddychn]

Hi Martin,

One thing I'm very happy with my current SDS2074X plus. Unlike previous HP/Agilent or Tek scopes, one need to juggle the  auto/normal mode around to get single mode or roll mode worked as expected. We could change it easily between all the modes in a click on Siglent. Does Rigol have the same or similar benefit?

Thanks!

[Martin72]

Hi teddychn,

In this case the siglent sds2000X plus got the best direct access.
And unfortunately the "default" and "auto setup" buttons are directly touchable on the rigol (on the same height like the other buttons).
This is the price you must pay for a smaller design I guess, altough there´s a little space left on the front, see pic.
Roll mode you can access via the acquire menu ( just press the acquire button on the front or touch the horizontal icon on the screen (or the field with the samplerate)).
Roll mode is either auto or off - the "scale" shows 50ms, but you can´t change it, maybe reserved for future firmware update.
Tomorrow is the last day/evening I can do something on the rigol, times was flying away.
Martin

[maxwell3e10]

Regarding update rate, the time structure of triggers is indeed very uneven. So I used a frequency counter to measure the trig out frequency (reciprocal method) over a 1 sec gate time. With one channel on the update rate is indeed around 50k over a wide range of horizontal time scales. But it drops very quickly with more channels on:
1 ch on: 55k
2 ch on: 17k
3 ch on: 7k
4 cn on: 5k

Turning on high-resolution mode does not affect the update rate. Turning on average (for 1k points) reduces the update rate to about half (for each number of channels turned on).

The high frequency response is pretty good, the signal amplitude goes to about 84% at 800 MHz and 64% at 1 GHz.