Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[2N3055]

What exactly did I say? The only thing I mentioned was the user interface.

You don't have to own one to be able to look at Dave's video (or even Rigol's "marketing video") and know the user interface is a massive improvement over traditional Rigol's Siglents:


PS: Have you checked the credentials of everybody posting here, or is it just because I'm the only one who adds disclaimers?

What makes you think that RIgol user interface is easier to use and more ergonomic than touch Siglents?
Little Teletubbies pictures?

Setting details of input channels in dialog that covers whole screen compared to one where you see what you are doing is not upgrade..
It might look nice on a video, but try using it...
Only once you have both side by side on a desk and using it for few months in production you can see where it works and where it does not.
That is why I didn't make any comments on Rigol GUI but saying it looks nice and it is a great upgrade to previous Rigol UI. But I really don't know how it would compare to Siglents..

[tomud]

What makes you think that RIgol user interface is easier to use and more ergonomic than touch Siglents?
Little Teletubbies pictures?

Fungus he's horny for Rigol as toothless for biscuits 

He won't buy it himself, and he knows as much about the device as he reads and sees on Youtube ... but he persuades everyone to buy it. 

I don't understand at all how you can convince another person to spend a lot of money on an oscilloscope - which you don't know much about (the oscilloscope was only seen in pictures).

Maybe Fungus is an employee of Rigol's marketing department ?

And lest anyone write that I hate Rigol...  It's some part of the Rigol oscilloscopes I have...

[markone]

Oh no, not again....

Yes, again, the truth MUST be told 

yes and the whole discussion about using history mode instead etc.

but i think i missed here the part of the conversation where somebody mentions what these new rigol hdo do in same situation. dave shows a variety of scopes and... that was before these new rigol platform got released.

however the r&s rtb probably would be my overall personal choice. were it not in a completely different price tier category and unobtainable. so if these new are better that's a positive

but yes, better not to stir up another contentious arguments. its almost worth not knowing the answer for the pages of grief otherwise incurred

HDO zoom-out like all others but Siglent, Picoscope and Lecroys.

[dreamcat4]

thanks for answering. i suppose it has covered already in more detail elsewhere. to clarify which specific mode(s) etc. no worries

[markone]

Oh no, not again....

Yes, again, the truth MUST be told 

Be sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.

However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.

Tautech,

I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.

Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.

[2N3055]

Oh no, not again....

Yes, again, the truth MUST be told 

Be sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.

However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.

Tautech,

I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.

Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.

There is no "Siglent armada"... Just people trying to dispense with misinformation. At least on my part.
Just for your information, I personally "defended honor" of Rigol, Picoscope even Keysight etc on many occasions when people would write things that are not true..
And if there weren't for "Rigol crusaders" trying to demonize every little thing that is different on other scopes there would be no need for any of these unnecessary, uncivilized, useless, protracted crapshoots about "my **** is bigger than yours...

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

[Fungus]

As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.

Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them.

Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is.

[markone]

Oh no, not again....

Yes, again, the truth MUST be told 

Be sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.

However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.

Tautech,

I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.

Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.

There is no "Siglent armada"... Just people trying to dispense with misinformation. At least on my part.
Just for your information, I personally "defended honor" of Rigol, Picoscope even Keysight etc on many occasions when people would write things that are not true..
And if there weren't for "Rigol crusaders" trying to demonize every little thing that is different on other scopes there would be no need for any of these unnecessary, uncivilized, useless, protracted crapshoots about "my **** is bigger than yours...

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

I do feel in syntony with David for the simple reason that I do make use of zoom out feature on many occasions as well as I put scope in auto memory mode in other, so this kind of flexibility is important to me like to other workers that operate in similar condition.

Anyway, the fact that Siglent started to implement it in medium / higher models confirms that it does make sense, i would guess that we will see it appear in lower end models in the future, in the meanwhile I consider its absence a lack, not a feature.

The attempt to pass the zoom solution as equivalent does not work for many reasons, especially for cheap scopes where the screen size and resolution are limited and the zoom function slow down operations a lot, especially during its navigation.

But to understand this fact you have to actual use a scope under certain conditions, sure it's note the case for all users but information about that must be evaluated before the purchase and the David's video here comes a lot in handy.

Also you can't deny that here we have an important Siglent marketing supporters, in part official, group that operates exclusively to expand Siglent sales at the expense of the main competitor (Rigol) and this sounds as an anomaly for a technical forum, in fact in many other web tech forums this is forbidden by specific rule.

[Fungus]

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

He means "information I don't want to hear".

[2N3055]

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

He means "information I don't want to hear".

All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...

[tautech]

Oh no, not again....

Yes, again, the truth MUST be told 

Be sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.

However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.

Tautech,

I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.

Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.

There is no "Siglent armada"... Just people trying to dispense with misinformation. At least on my part.
Just for your information, I personally "defended honor" of Rigol, Picoscope even Keysight etc on many occasions when people would write things that are not true..
And if there weren't for "Rigol crusaders" trying to demonize every little thing that is different on other scopes there would be no need for any of these unnecessary, uncivilized, useless, protracted crapshoots about "my **** is bigger than yours...

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

I do feel in syntony with David for the simple reason that I do make use of zoom out feature on many occasions as well as I put scope in auto memory mode in other, so this kind of flexibility is important to me like to other workers that operate in similar condition.

Anyway, the fact that Siglent started to implement it in medium / higher models confirms that it does make sense, i would guess that we will see it appear in lower end models in the future, in the meanwhile I consider its absence a lack, not a feature.

The attempt to pass the zoom solution as equivalent does not work for many reasons, especially for cheap scopes where the screen size and resolution are limited and the zoom function slow down operations a lot, especially during its navigation.

But to understand this fact you have to actual use a scope under certain conditions, sure it's note the case for all users but information about that must be evaluated before the purchase and the David's video here comes a lot in handy.

Also you can't deny that here we have an important Siglent marketing supporters, in part official, group that operates exclusively to expand Siglent sales at the expense of the main competitor (Rigol) and this sounds as an anomaly for a technical forum, in fact in many other web tech forums this is forbidden by specific rule.

Again, open your eyes and be sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.
These are perfectly valid technical design decisions why these scopes operate this way.

Latest scopes offer Auto or Fixed mem depth of which each has their advantages.

[tomud]

As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.

Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them.

Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is.

I don't think you understand the difference. I collect information from users who are able to check something and share information (They have this model of oscilloscope). I am collecting this information because I am wondering if it is worth buying Rigol HDO or maybe better Siglent 2000X HD... Rigol seems to have good equipment and is cheaper. However, my experience with Rigol's software raises some concerns.

You advise others by saying buy an oscilloscope you will be satisfied. This is an example of your forum posts:

In short, I am delighted with the purchase of this SIglent SDS1204X-E scope, I do not regret this change of oscilloscope, even with a price difference of almost 3 times.

You should have spent a bit more and got the new Rigol 12-bit oscilloscopes.

They're a whole other level in terms of user interface and performance.

A bit more to have a 12 bits scope, 4 channels and 200 MHz BW !!!

Nooooooo, much more.

You won't regret it if you upgrade your Siglent to the new Rigol.

Fungus But ok, since you advise everyone to buy HDO, maybe you will dispel some of my doubts.


1. Do the currently sold HDO1000 still have the full 50 ohm input path of the 4000 model ?  And whether uploading the firmware from the 4000 model activates the possibility of using the 50 ohm track ?


2. Do the advanced triggers work without problems and there are no problems with the firmware ? I care most about (Pulse Width Trigger, Pattern Trigger, Duration Trigger, Window Trigger, Timeout Trigger, Delay Trigger).


3. I have not found anywhere that HDO oscilloscope provide zone triggering (I was looking at the HDO manuals). If so, could someone check if they work correctly. Rigol MSO5000/MSO7000, Siglent 2000X Plus/HD and my Agilent 3054A have zone triggers and I really care about that (they make life easier and it's hard to replace them in any other way - I honestly can't imagine working without such triggers)

If someone doesn't know what zone triggering is, here's a description of how it works:




4. Are there any bugs in the software that cause math functions to malfunction? Can you test their performance and report back to me ?


5. I am also interested in the Power Analysis option, how can someone test it if it works properly (there are no errors in the firmware) and present sample measurements here, I will be grateful. Does the Power Analysis option work on HDO1000 after uploading the firmware from HDO4000 ? Mainly this option has the potential to use 12 bits in practice...


6. Does the firmwre allow you to disable interpolation and display samples as dots on the screen (without connecting the dots) ?


7. Has the Bode function been implemented for Rigol external generators ? (current versions of the manual do not mention this). I am referring to this post:

Seems there is a first FW update available for the HDO4K
https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/cat/7/xl/52

no description though

In the FPGA section we can see BODE reference ... Maybe with an external gen?

I have a Siglent VNA as I mentioned, but it's designed for high frequencies. So a big advantage would be the Bode option operating at lower frequencies. Rigol MSO5000 and Siglent have this function, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of it in HDO...


8. Do the problems listed here also exist in the HDO4000 firmware ?

50Ω has nothing to do with scope amplitude....

And I will repeat: what frequency are you measuring at?
It can be 100x attenuated depending on frequency...

But it is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes..

Rigol forced this out too soon..
And just a few days ago I realized why: they just had IPO on Chinese Shanghai Stock Exchange..

1KHz ...
It is oversampling. From 5 MSs/s to 50 MSa/s.
But whatever the cause it is a bug of course.

As was saying 2N3055 "is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes", the weird thing is that it passed internal prelaminar test fully unnoticed 

I'm getting some strange high frequency noise in waveform traces dumped with SCPI commands, something that seems not present on ths DSO screen 

I will show later.

9. Are there any other known issues when using SCPI ?


10. How does the XY mode work ? Doesn't it have the problems that were in the MSO5000 ? How fast is the XY mode ? (would love to see a video)


Fungus, I hope that as a person who highly recommends HDO oscilloscopes, you will dispel my doubts and answer the questions asked.


Of course, seriously, I direct this question to those who own these oscilloscopes.

[markone]

Latest scopes offer Auto or Fixed mem depth of which each has their advantages.

So how do you explain that latest mid-high end Siglent scopes are introducing this "Not Necessary Feature" already present in ALL Rigol scopes from ages ?

Suddenly this "feature" matters a lot ? 

[markone]

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

He means "information I don't want to hear".

All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...

You can reply with your own video and explain in detail this wrongness, I will be glad to watch it.

[2N3055]

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

He means "information I don't want to hear".

All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...

You can reply with your own video and explain in detail this wrongness, I will be glad to watch it.

So you are saying I'm lying, basically...

I don't do Teletubbies for people that are too lazy to read what was already explained dozens of times...
I documented all in details in posts... And it was separately verified..

If you don't trust me, buy your own Keysight scope (like I did) and verify it yourself..
It is your problem, not mine. I did my part.

[2N3055]

Latest scopes offer Auto or Fixed mem depth of which each has their advantages.

So how do you explain that latest mid-high end Siglent scopes are introducing this "Not Necessary Feature" already present in ALL Rigol scopes from ages ?

Suddenly this "feature" matters a lot ?

I can.

It was management decision to do it where it was opportune because apparently there are people that are willing to use this as a propaganda against Siglent... So if it was possible without breaking something it was done. So brand zealots cannot ad nauseam invent "big" reasons why Siglent is worse than "your brand here"... Even if "your favorite brand" has firmware that is falling apart and scope has dozens of bugs...

While literally millions of Siglent user apparently don't need it...

But hey, more power to the user. And when they do it, then, again, by same people they again did something wrong..

Haters gonna hate...

That is your truth...

[skander36]

1. Do the currently sold HDO1000 still have the full 50 ohm input path of the 4000 model ?  And whether uploading the firmware from the 4000 model activates the possibility of using the 50 ohm track ?


2. Do the advanced triggers work without problems and there are no problems with the firmware ? I care most about (Pulse Width Trigger, Pattern Trigger, Duration Trigger, Window Trigger, Timeout Trigger, Delay Trigger).


3. I have not found anywhere that HDO oscilloscope provide zone triggering (I was looking at the HDO manuals). If so, could someone check if they work correctly. Rigol MSO5000/MSO7000, Siglent 2000X Plus/HD and my Agilent 3054A have zone triggers and I really care about that (they make life easier and it's hard to replace them in any other way - I honestly can't imagine working without such triggers)

If someone doesn't know what zone triggering is, here's a description of how it works:




4. Are there any bugs in the software that cause math functions to malfunction? Can you test their performance and report back to me ?


5. I am also interested in the Power Analysis option, how can someone test it if it works properly (there are no errors in the firmware) and present sample measurements here, I will be grateful. Does the Power Analysis option work on HDO1000 after uploading the firmware from HDO4000 ? Mainly this option has the potential to use 12 bits in practice...


6. Does the firmwre allow you to disable interpolation and display samples as dots on the screen (without connecting the dots) ?


7. Has the Bode function been implemented for Rigol external generators ? (current versions of the manual do not mention this). I am referring to this post:

Seems there is a first FW update available for the HDO4K
https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/cat/7/xl/52

no description though

In the FPGA section we can see BODE reference ... Maybe with an external gen?

I have a Siglent VNA as I mentioned, but it's designed for high frequencies. So a big advantage would be the Bode option operating at lower frequencies. Rigol MSO5000 and Siglent have this function, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of it in HDO...


8. Do the problems listed here also exist in the HDO4000 firmware ?

50Ω has nothing to do with scope amplitude....

And I will repeat: what frequency are you measuring at?
It can be 100x attenuated depending on frequency...

But it is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes..

Rigol forced this out too soon..
And just a few days ago I realized why: they just had IPO on Chinese Shanghai Stock Exchange..

1KHz ...
It is oversampling. From 5 MSs/s to 50 MSa/s.
But whatever the cause it is a bug of course.

As was saying 2N3055 "is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes", the weird thing is that it passed internal prelaminar test fully unnoticed 

I'm getting some strange high frequency noise in waveform traces dumped with SCPI commands, something that seems not present on ths DSO screen 

I will show later.

9. Are there any other known issues when using SCPI ?


10. How does the XY mode work ? Doesn't it have the problems that were in the MSO5000 ? How fast is the XY mode ? (would love to see a video)


Fungus, I hope that as a person who highly recommends HDO oscilloscopes, you will dispel my doubts and answer the questions asked.


Of course, seriously, I direct this question to those who own these oscilloscopes.

Short, but I hope this help:
Also if someone has better info please correct me:

1. No, 50 ohm is not active even with the latest Fw. Although I don't have a confirmation from Rigol (I ask but they didn't bother to answer) I am pretty sure that is and will be the same firmware. It work perfectly on HDO1K and even the firmware from HDO1K flash(factory new) is called "HDO4000Update.GEL". At startup, a script can querry the hardware and load the correspodent fpga app.(start_rigol_app.sh)
2. I didn't test thoroughly but until now I did not find any problems. Only time will tell. Even on mature fw versions users can find problems after years, testing on specific setup. 
3. No zone triggering. This is also my regret. On Rigol5K is a pleasure to use it.
4. I did not find until now but it is possible that anytime someone can find a bug. See point 2.
5. I can't activate this option on my HDO1K.
6. No. Only vector.
7. No external Bode ploting until now.
8. HiRes problem has been solved with the Fw. updates.
9. I don't know.
10. Slower than Rigol 5K, but at least it can be resized on entire screen.

[markone]

I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.

I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".

He means "information I don't want to hear".

All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...

You can reply with your own video and explain in detail this wrongness, I will be glad to watch it.

So you are saying I'm lying, basically...

I don't do Teletubbies for people that are too lazy to read what was already explained dozens of times...
I documented all in details in posts... And it was separately verified..

If you don't trust me, buy your own Keysight scope (like I did) and verify it yourself..
It is your problem, not mine. I did my part.

DO not get me wrong, I do not have any knowledge about modern Keysight scopes because my customers do not buy them anymore and for sure I'm not going to buy them too and I never said you are lying, but Keysight scopes are out of topic and remaining concepts explained in David's video are adhering with reality.

Instead I was meaning another thing : it's not easy to put concepts in video and here all must agree that David makes a great job in that, so I have respect for his job.

The problem here is another : Siglent supporters still try to convert a lack in a plus and the proof is that this very feature is appearing in more expensive scopes, this is the simple and plain truth, no way to negate it.

[markone]

-snip

1. No, 50 ohm is not active even with the latest Fw. Although I don't have a confirmation from Rigol (I ask but they didn't bother to answer) I am pretty sure that is and will be the same firmware. It work perfectly on HDO1K and even the firmware from HDO1K flash(factory new) is called "HDO4000Update.GEL". At startup, a script can querry the hardware and load the correspodent fpga app.(start_rigol_app.sh)
2. I didn't test thoroughly but until now I did not find any problems. Only time will tell. Even on mature fw versions users can find problems after years, testing on specific setup. 
3. No zone triggering. This is also my regret. On Rigol5K is a pleasure to use it.
4. I did not find until now but it is possible that anytime someone can find a bug. See point 2.
5. I can't activate this option on my HDO1K.
6. No. Only vector.
7. No external Bode ploting until now.
8. HiRes problem has been solved with the Fw. updates.
9. I don't know.
10. Slower than Rigol 5K, but at least it can be resized on entire screen.

I can confirm all the points but the last (because I never used XY) and I would add some observations :

1) I do not expect any HDO4K FW adaptation for HDO1K HW, it is very likely that all the additional 4K features will never be ported to the 1K series.
2) If you want an instrument with a mature FW you must buy something that is on the market for several years.
3) The current selling point for HDO1K is the price, if previous two points are deal killer for you then prepare for a much bigger pocket effort or skip 12bits feature.

My HDO1074's board mounts the same acquisition memory amount of 4K line (16Gbits) and biggest version of FPGA, HW wise it would be capable to be expanded to 500Mpts, but as I said before I do not hold my breath awaiting for a FW hack that will allow that.

What I can say is that for the price, after the last FW upgrade, this thing is exceptional : high quality resolution screen and much more responsive UI than MSO5K with all the plus of a low noise 12bits ADC DSO.

I paid mine less than 1100 euros shipped during the black Friday (in place of a a cheaper MSO5074) and I do not regret it at all.

[2N3055]

DO not get me wrong, I do not have any knowledge about modern Keysight scopes because my customers do not buy them anymore and for sure I'm not going to buy them too and I never said you are lying, but Keysight scopes are out of topic and remaining concepts explained in David's video are adhering with reality.

Instead I was meaning another thing : it's not easy to put concepts in video and here all must agree that David makes a great job in that, so I have respect for his job.

The problem here is another : Siglent supporters still try to convert a lack in a plus and the proof is that this very feature is appearing in more expensive scopes, this is the simple and plain truth, no way to negate it.

And you should not get me wrong either. I don't disagree that you and many others use specific workflow that needs that particular feature.

But what you are (an those that say it absolutely necessary or scope is useless) is forgetting is that literally millions of users don't need it and have scopes that don't have that capability. They simply use it differently. They use zoom function, that is working very well on these scopes with big screen (LeCroys, touch Siglents, Picoscope I have on a 24" screen)..

Also there are literally millions of users of scopes (that do have manual control of memory) that never ever took it out of Auto memory mode  because for everyday "scoping" that is most useful mode... It prevents aliasing (and confusion connected to that) and also gives the simplicity of putting on a screen whole event you want to capture and using zoom to zoom in. Or simplicity of capturing whole event with timebase, stopping and then using timebase time and position to observe part of the signal in question, same as with scope with manual memory control....

So for people that absolutely insist they need manual memory mode because they refuse to use scope differently from what they like or have long time habits, then they should get a scope with manual memory mode.

I personally, for instance,  would never buy a scope that has ONLY manual memory mode because they are pain in everyday use...
I understand personal choice.... But make no mistake, this heated discussion is about personal choice and willingness to learn new/different ways.. Not about "this cannot be done with this scope because it lacks XYZ". Because it was demonstrated many times it can be done but with slightly different steps.

And as for the "problem": Like I said. Siglent is a company the sells scopes to customers. Fact that most of their scopes have no manual memory mode is from the fact nobody ever made that to be a problem. If they had even 1000 users from millions of sold scopes complaining about this in the past, they would probably have that as a feature. Until this overblown campaign of making this to be a problem much larger than it deserves nobody cared about this.

If you want to judge who is "unfair" or "playing marketing bulshit" take a hard look at who are the loudest portparols of this invented "problem": a guy who  simply likes to discuss things he doesn't have or ever tried, but thrives in creating fuss, a guy that has publicly stated hundreds of time he has open grudge with Siglent, some people who are openly Rigol fanboys... Sounds like innocent people are fighting "Siglent's invasion". Instead of some people responding with facts to a smearing campaign that appeared out of blue  in the very moment when Rigol's MSO5000 was being creamed by sales of SDS2000X+ and all of Rigol MSO5000 shortcomings were out in open.... You are saying "it is shame there are no Rigol people here to say their side..". Are you sure about that? Or it is that Siglent is honorable enough to openly state their status and not relying on "agents provocateurs".. There is Siglent official account here, a person selling Siglent and several of Beta test team members. They are all known and not pretending to be otherwise.

Ruminate on that. I'm trying to give you background on these because I see you are a new member and seem to be rational person that listen to the facts...

To make sure, I will not discuss this anymore here. This was a very nice topic (so far) on a new potentially exciting scope from Rigol and it is not "Siglent people" that are trying to derail it...
Let's keep it nice topic on Rigol HDO/DHO scopes..

[tomud]

Short, but I hope this help:
Also if someone has better info please correct me:

1. No, 50 ohm is not active even with the latest Fw. Although I don't have a confirmation from Rigol (I ask but they didn't bother to answer) I am pretty sure that is and will be the same firmware. It work perfectly on HDO1K and even the firmware from HDO1K flash(factory new) is called "HDO4000Update.GEL". At startup, a script can querry the hardware and load the correspodent fpga app.(start_rigol_app.sh)
2. I didn't test thoroughly but until now I did not find any problems. Only time will tell. Even on mature fw versions users can find problems after years, testing on specific setup. 
3. No zone triggering. This is also my regret. On Rigol5K is a pleasure to use it.
4. I did not find until now but it is possible that anytime someone can find a bug. See point 2.
5. I can't activate this option on my HDO1K.
6. No. Only vector.
7. No external Bode ploting until now.
8. HiRes problem has been solved with the Fw. updates.
9. I don't know.
10. Slower than Rigol 5K, but at least it can be resized on entire screen.

I can confirm all the points but the last (because I never used XY) and I would add some observations :

1) I do not expect any HDO4K FW adaptation for HDO1K HW, it is very likely that all the additional 4K features will never be ported to the 1K series.
2) If you want an instrument with a mature FW you must buy something that is on the market for several years.
3) The current selling point for HDO1K is the price, if previous two points are deal killer for you then prepare for a much bigger pocket effort or skip 12bits feature.

Thanks for the replies That clears things up a bit. All in all, I asked about the HDO1000 more out of curiosity, seeing the possibility of uploading the firmware from the HDO4000.
Although the HDO1000 is probably also based on the HDO4000 firmware to some extent, so they will probably be similar in some areas.

As for costs, they are not my main selection criterion. That's why I'm thinking more about Rigol HDO4000 or Siglent 2000X HD (similar purchase costs). Anyway, I will probably still follow the topics on both oscilloscopes. It is known that HDO is a bit young and probably some more information will appear here over time.

[mawyatt]

As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.

Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them.

Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is.

This is interesting, from someone who seems to constantly bash anything from Siglent regardless of instrument, and likely has never owned a Siglent product, certainly not the ones constantly bashed


And here's your quote from #621

"You don't have to own something to know anything about it or to be able to see the user interface in videos."

Do we listen because "You don't have to own something to know anything about it", or "Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them. Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is."

So which is it

BTW we do listen to folks on the forum and watch videos, but have developed "Filters" wrt to the quality of information and bias of such.

Anyway, back to the Rigol HD thread.

Very curious how well this new 12 bit HD DSO behaves wrt to linearity, e.g. use in FFT mode. Awhile back we had requested a Two Tone IMD test, which should hint at how well the HD Input Amp/Attenuator and 12 bit ADC behave.

So far what we've seen is the hardware seems to be well done, UI looks interesting and has some nice features. Our concern is will the FW updates reflect fixes in a timely manner, and will additional "features" be added, such as Bode plots.

Also hats off to Rigol for rolling their own custom ASICs, and offering the cost advantages to customers
They plan on large sales to spread the NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering), as they incurred a large $ investment in the development of these very ASICs.

Personally we haven't seen much Rigol bashing here (actually more Siglent bashing), mostly just folks trying to gather information on this very interesting new HD DSO from Rigol.

Disclaimer, we don't own any Rigol equipment (yet), mostly Siglent and HPAK, also Keithley, GW Instek, Hioki, Tonghui, and Tek.

Best,

[skander36]

Mawyatt, I don't know if it is good enough, but I own a SDG 2K AWG that work with wave combine.
If you suggest me a setup(delta F) I can try to show a FFT on HDO1K.

[mawyatt]

Mawyatt, I don't know if it is good enough, but I own a SDG 2K AWG that work with wave combine.
If you suggest me a setup(delta F) I can try to show a FFT on HDO1K.

Thanks!!

Recently we did some IMD tests with our SDG2K on here with the Combine Mode, but can't remember where. The AWG performed well, was even confirmed on our SA, so think this is a good source.

Recall we did tests at 100K, 1M and 10MHz with 10K spacing. Level was at 0dBm, but since the HD01K doesn't have a 50 ohm termination, maybe a level of ~1VPP should be fine with DSO & AWG at High Z Input/Mode. At 10MHz without a 50 ohm setup, this may cause an issue, so results here may be questionable.

Anyway, thank you so much for offering to perform these tests

Best,

[skander36]

Hi @mawyatt,
This are the FFT for 100 KHZ, 1MHz and 10 MHz.
As you said at 10 MHz without impedance matching, it just trying to show second signal.
Maybe with some tunning on the FFT the results could be improved.