Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise

[Fungus]

Some people have changed the Multifunction encoder for one that has detents. I'd like to know how these detented encoders work with functions that require fine tuning, like Cursor positioning, trigger holdoff settings, the little pop-up keyboard for naming files, etc.

There's a video here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-rotary-encoder-mod/msg737700/#msg737700

[CCB]

Also changed the fan in my DP832 - followed Guni's guide, I used a Noctua NF-A8 PWM fan and 150ohm 5w resistor. Socket on the board in both are JST XH 2.5 2 Pin Connector (Aliexpress)

I can't believe the difference it always used to be nagging me to turn it off, but now I forget it's running

Fan swap on DP832 and DS1054z - 10/10 would void warranty again in return for sanity 

[alsetalokin4017]

Some people have changed the Multifunction encoder for one that has detents. I'd like to know how these detented encoders work with functions that require fine tuning, like Cursor positioning, trigger holdoff settings, the little pop-up keyboard for naming files, etc.

There's a video here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-rotary-encoder-mod/msg737700/#msg737700

Well, that's better than I thought it might be, but it did look like there was some extra "granularity" to the Cursor positioning, and I'd still like to see how finely something like the Trigger Holdoff setting responds to the detented encoder.

Since I have no trouble selecting what I need without inadvertently turning the knob, I'll be sticking with the stock encoder, myself. I just don't see that the "improvement" is worth the trouble.

Talk about noise, though... pressing that button seemed really loud!

[ebastler]

... but it did look like there was some extra "granularity" to the Cursor positioning, and I'd still like to see how finely something like the Trigger Holdoff setting responds to the detented encoder.

I don't see how extra granularity could result (if the right type of encoder was used), since there is one detent stop per encoder step.

[alsetalokin4017]

... but it did look like there was some extra "granularity" to the Cursor positioning, and I'd still like to see how finely something like the Trigger Holdoff setting responds to the detented encoder.

I don't see how extra granularity could result (if the right type of encoder was used), since there is one detent stop per encoder step.

Ah, that makes perfect sense, thanks. I guess I'm just used to thinking of much finer resolution encoders, like 400 lines per rev. These are what, 20 steps per rev?

[Fungus]

I guess I'm just used to thinking of much finer resolution encoders, like 400 lines per rev. These are what, 20 steps per rev?

12

Edit: 24

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1685514.pdf

The recommended on is the EC12E2424407

[ebastler]

I'm just used to thinking of much finer resolution encoders, like 400 lines per rev. These are what, 20 steps per rev?

ALPS part no. EC12E2424407, 24 steps/rev.

[tooki]

FWIW, I also used the Gelid Silent 5 on mine and it seems to work fine. Huge improvement in the fan noise.

[bd139]

Is there any way of getting inside the DS1054Z without ripping off the warranty sticker or any tricks? The fan on mine is doing my head in but I don't want to kill the warranty.

It's a lot quieter than my HP 5328A was however!

[frozenfrogz]

Best way of dealing with the sticker is to use a small wedge made from PTFE and a hair dryer to soften the glue a little bit.
Works like a charm!
In case you do not have PTFE around, non-stick backing paper also does the job.

[bd139]

Thanks will do that. My other half has some PTFE baking sheets

Edit: and a hair dryer although I'll have to wait until she's out before I steal that

[hydrogen maser]

Finally did something about the fan noise, it was bugging me and I was just lazy and let it go until today. I kept the stock fan but replaced the screws that held the fan in place with some rubber mounts:



and put a 22ohm resistor in series with the fan. I experimented with various resistances and 22 was what I was happy with - it dropped the current from 50ma to 40ma and reduced the airflow by a small amount, but the noise went down. I think the majority of the noise is not coming from the "fan", it is caused by turbulence/air flowing through the cutouts in the shield and case and there is not really a whole lot you can do about it short of chopping large holes in the shield/re-engineering the whole airflow path. What will quiet it down is greatly reduced airflow speed but of course that means less cooling. A typical fix I have used when I have the space is to use a very oversized fan and spin it at low speed, but there is just not room for that in this scope without major surgery.     

[frozenfrogz]

I cut away the stock fan grill and installed one of those wire grills together with a Gelid Silent 5.
But that *might* void your warranty 

[Fungus]

I cut away the stock fan grill and installed one of those wire grills together with a Gelid Silent 5.
But that *might* void your warranty 

Why would a warranty-voider even bother with a grill? 

[frozenfrogz]

Why would a warranty-voider even bother with a grill? 

Since I had it in stock: Why not. I don’t know if it makes any difference in shielding so maybe it is not really needed...

[Fungus]

My DS1054Z has gone out of warranty so I've been thinking of doing this mod.

I looked up the specs of the Gelid and Sunon fans. Overall the specs are very similar. The airflow is identical, the Rigol's Sunon has 25% more pressure.

I FINALLY got around to changing the fan and, jeez, what a difference. The DS1054Z is almost silent now. Unbelievable.

I don't know how many cents Rigol is saving on their fans but it's a few cents too many.

If anybody's scope is more than a few months old (ie. past the early death phase) then I totally recommend this. I wish I'd done it sooner.

The only difficulty was two minutes with a soldering iron splicing the Rigol plug onto the new fan (the new fan was three wire, the Rigol fan is two wire). Opening the case, etc., was simple. All together it took about 15-20 minutes to do.

PS: Yes, the part number printed on the Rigol fan is exactly the part number shown above.

[frozenfrogz]

I don't know how many cents Rigol is saving on their fans but it's a few cents too many.

Sunon fans are actually not that bad. There would have been a lot cheaper options I guess

[markce]

I did an extensive evaluation of 2 very silent fan mods for DS2072A on a dutch forum (circuitsonline.net): https://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/view/137540
My choice was a Noctua fan as the most silent choice with acceptable air movement. This should also work for the DS1054Z

[Karel]

I read a lot about lowering the fan noise but I can't find anything usefull about somebody who actually put (temporary) a temperature
sensor on the pcb with some long wire to measure the difference of temperature on boardlevel before and after the mod.
This is what I'm really interested in. Why isn't there an engineer or hobbyist on this forum who had the same idea and actually did it?

[Qw3rtzuiop]

The DS2072A has a 60mm fan and the DS1054Z a 50mm fan. There are much less 50mm fans.

[markce]

@Karel: That is one of the things I did (temp sensor on the PCB, see page 3).

@Qw3rtzuiop: My second choice was Noiseblocker, which actually has a silent 50mm fan in their product range.

[lundmar]

I find it amazing that an instrument manufacturer puts in the effort to design a nice scope but ends up crapping all over it by including a very noisy fan!

[LaurentR]

I find it amazing that an instrument manufacturer puts in the effort to design a nice scope but ends up crapping all over it by including a very noisy fan!

I think until recently, fan noise was just not on T&E vendors radar.

Look at the various threads on this site and you'll still see a wide spread of opinion about fan noises. People used to the old-school lawnmowers welcome the new "quiet" T&E while the others (including me) who lived through the change for PCs from absurdly noisy 10+ years ago to now quietly moving 100s of W out using big, slow fans, basically expect T&E manufacturers to pay attention to the design of their active cooling solutions, with noise being a major requirement.

The good news is that many vendors have made great progress, especially in their affordable gear which is more likely to end up in low-noise office or home environments (vs. noisy labs for expensive gear). The new Keysight supplies with a large thermally controlled fan are fairly quiet. The RTB2004 has a very carefully designed airduct and a big rubber support for the fan for reduced vibration and better flow leading to very acceptable noise in everyday conditions.

However, in both cases, they still missed the mark. The Keysight fan still runs when the supply is turned off (!) and the RTB2004 fan, while thermally controlled, has very little range, so its noise floor is probably 4-8dB higher than it could be with a bit of engineering attention (i.e. a few line of code).

I am not sure about Rigol, but I will continue bugging the T&E guys about fan noise until they are appropriately quiet.

[lundmar]

I am not sure about Rigol, but I will continue bugging the T&E guys about fan noise until they are appropriately quiet.

I'm with you on that - bug em until it becomes a focus.

Besides being way too expensive, I'm actually quite disappointed that the new Keysight benchtop dc power supples are not designed with a passive cooling solution. I mean, they brag about their new highly efficient power design but still add a fan in a 30 W linear power supply which could easily dissipate all that heat through a passively cooled design, even in the most confined environments.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2584632-pn-E36102A/dc-power-supply-6v-5a-30w