Rigol DHO804 Test and Compare Thread

[ebastler]

What is your link to Siglent? It does seem to go beyond "generally liking their products".

Most folks watching this forum got it by now.

But you don't feel comfortable disclosing it when asked, let alone in your profile info? Well, you will have your reasons. But please be aware that it affects the reception of your posts once readers have realized that you have a hidden agenda or loyalty here.

the only valid question would be: have I posted wrong facts anywhere? Or in this thread particularly?

It's not about posting wrong facts, but about posting selectively picked facts which make "your" product look good, and glossing over aspects where the competing product has advantages. That's what decent salesmen do, and it is certainly what tautech and you have been doing here.

[Fungus]

1. Capture 10 different I2C packets, with timebase made such that you capture each packet into each owns Frame/segment. Stop the scope.
2. Decode those 10 different packets while moving from segment to segment...

I captured 1000, will that do?



nb. That video was recorded using the DHO web control.

[2N3055]

1. Capture 10 different I2C packets, with timebase made such that you capture each packet into each owns Frame/segment. Stop the scope.
2. Decode those 10 different packets while moving from segment to segment...

I captured 1000, will that do?



nb. That video was recorded using the DHO web control.

Excellent. Good work man.Thank you for that.

You are actually first one to publish that. That is good news for DHO users. DS1000Z could not do that.

Can you have measurements in a table with stats too? Enable some measurements and try. And if you enable statistics and play through these 1000 segments will it accumulate stats?

Thanks for helping.

Siniša

[Fungus]

Can you have measurements in a table with stats too? Enable some measurements and try. And if you enable statistics and play through these 1000 segments will it accumulate stats?

There's some measurements on the right of that video.

If I unfold the stats the numbers also change in there.

[2N3055]

1. Capture 10 different I2C packets, with timebase made such that you capture each packet into each owns Frame/segment. Stop the scope.
2. Decode those 10 different packets while moving from segment to segment...

I captured 1000, will that do?



nb. That video was recorded using the DHO web control.

And also, I presume you can have table view of decode too. Can table show only current segment or all of the segments?

Nice video capability. I like that.

[2N3055]

Can you have measurements in a table with stats too? Enable some measurements and try. And if you enable statistics and play through these 1000 segments will it accumulate stats?

There's some measurements on the right of that video.

Yeah sorry you're too quick. I meant in a table with stats. To see if stats is gathered across the segments.

[ptluis]

1. Capture 10 different I2C packets, with timebase made such that you capture each packet into each owns Frame/segment. Stop the scope.
2. Decode those 10 different packets while moving from segment to segment...

I captured 1000, will that do?



nb. That video was recorded using the DHO web control.

This is the type of information that we future buyers seek to obtain to decide our purchases.  Not the wars of which brand is the best.  We have to pay to own the equipment, the brands don't offer it to us, so we as buyers have every interest in knowing whether the "X" equipment is competent in the features that the manufacturers say it has.  I've had several brands and there are no perfect brands, they all have their flaws.  My friends, make peace among yourselves!  Help in practice those who have to make decisions, by testing functionalities, bugs and the like.  Yes, that is useful.  Thank you for your time in reading my text

[Fungus]

Can table show only current segment or all of the segments?

Table view shows the packets on screen. If I capture three packets it shows three in the table.

Recording/playback updates the table perfectly.

[2N3055]

Can table show only current segment or all of the segments?

Table view shows the packets on screen. If I capture three packets it shows three in the table.

Recording/playback updates the table perfectly.

Excellent. So it does current segment. That is OK. Showing all segments would be to much for the screen.. It is small.

OK, as for decoding from segmented mode, that is way better than DS1000Z it replaces.  Good, good.

This is should be fixed in Rigol U.M. This should be shown and explained a bit. Looking at U.M. this does not exist.

Did you by any chance see a question about measurement with stats is a table. Can you play through 100 segments, will it collect stats for all of them?

[Mechatrommer]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism... this is DHO800 thread, not DHO900 MSO remember? i heard DHO800 FFT not good? i provided facts not fart talk, tell me what SA price has -120 to -140dB dynamic range? this is possible because Rigol proved themselve by providing API documentation and working PC SW example since DS1000E, and it got better and better. i havent seen one single sig-fanboy proved otherwise (siglent has better FFT? duh!) thats why i stick with Rigol brand... my Anritsu MS8609A cant reach -100dB let alone -140dB.. ignoring the fact by nitpick is of no use, try to prove its antialiasing weakness by eyeballing sine/repeating signal beyond nyquist sampling limit is unrealistic in real circuit debugging, if it is, why mourn entry level scope for that? get one of those 10GSa/s Lecroy DSO then you can be happy to probe your 500MHz at 20 points per cycle..

here again look carefully, open your eyes wide (attached image) and tell me what wrong with it? if you dont have clue, it proves you are the siglent fan boyism... this is only 5Mpts, i can push to 50Mpts now, and then do averaging to get even lower noise and smaller RBW. i know i know before you argue, DSO is no place for SA (same as LA is not for DSO to do imho), get the real SA. i did, but i know i have one extra tool at $400 to do redundant verification. now i have two actually, DS1000Z and DHO804 (err... or should is say DHO924? thanks to hubertyoung and friends) LA? serial decoding? i will venture DHO924 later when i need it, glad to know its there but so far my clone salae logic can do the job for my simple need.

[rpro]

Did you read it? Carefully?

Yes, I read it, and carefully. I own the scope, and have been using its segmented memory everyday since I've owned it. 

I suggest you either buy the scope, or borrow it, and perform and report on your own tests, before making preposterous statements about this or other scopes in reference to this thread (e.g., like interval trigger being the same as delay trigger). In the meantime, I am skipping your posts.

[Fungus]

Yeah sorry you're too quick. I meant in a table with stats. To see if stats is gathered across the segments.

Another goalpost move?

I couldn't find a way to reset stats at the moment I hit record but I set the stats window size to '4' and it seems to show the average of the last four segments. This seems more useful than a reset (and I think the window mode is more useful in general...)



The signal was a pulse from an Arduino that changes width 255..0, 255..0.

I also connected a mouse and the video record function shows it nicely. :-)

[2N3055]

Yeah sorry you're too quick. I meant in a table with stats. To see if stats is gathered across the segments.

Another goalpost move?

I couldn't find a way to reset stats at the moment I hit record but I set the stats window size to four and it seems to show the average of the last four segments.



The signal was a pulse from an Arduino that changes width 255..0, 255..0.

I also connected a mouse and the video record function shows it nicely. :-)

No it is not moving a goalpost. This is what I was saying for last 3 months...
I presume that it can be shown in a table..
Maybe a table have a way to reset stats..

It does not seem to update when playing segments.
What you can to is go to segment 1 and enable some other measurement (that was not enabled at capture time)
And see if that one gets updated..

[Martin72]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism.

So that's it for me here, I can do without this kindergarten stuff.
I'll get back to you with tests when the thread has regained a certain objectivity.

[Fungus]

No it is not moving a goalpost. This is what I was saying for last 3 months...
I presume that it can be shown in a table..
Maybe a table have a way to reset stats..

Yada yada. You're still adding more conditions. Can the revered Siglents do all this?

What you can to is go to segment 1 and enable some other measurement (that was not enabled at capture time)
And see if that one gets updated..

It does.

[Fungus]

Maybe a table have a way to reset stats..

Resetting stats can be done (of course) but it's not something you really need to do when you have a sliding-window function like this.

Stats simply update themselves in the background.

[2N3055]

Did you read it? Carefully?

Yes, I read it, and carefully. I own the scope, and have been using its segmented memory everyday since I've owned it. 

I suggest you either buy the scope, or borrow it, and perform and report on your own tests, before making preposterous statements about this or other scopes in reference to this thread (e.g., like interval trigger being the same as delay trigger). In the meantime, I am skipping your posts.

Yet you are too lazy to post a screenshot and fail to point where in the 270 page book it say so...

[Mechatrommer]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism.

So that's it for me here, I can do without this kindergarten stuff.
I'll get back to you with tests when the thread has regained a certain objectivity.

just post if you have anything you think usefull for the cause, ignore the noises, we that reached the level of "Guardianship" will sometime have to counter-post noises just for fun noises will make difficult to follow a thread, but it happened and there is really no way to get rid of them, new members keep coming..

[2N3055]

No it is not moving a goalpost. This is what I was saying for last 3 months...
I presume that it can be shown in a table..
Maybe a table have a way to reset stats..

Yada yada. You're still adding more conditions. Can the revered Siglents do all this?

What you can to is go to segment 1 and enable some other measurement (that was not enabled at capture time)
And see if that one gets updated..

It does.

I'm not adding conditions, you silly rabbit.

I'm trying to actually find out what it can actually do.
So we can prove if it has or has not more function than competition.

I don't care who is "better". We lack good quality information about new Rigol scope beyond unpacking videos..
So far all the stuff that I had to FORCE you to do, was actually in favor of Rigol...
And I was the first one to ask those questions..

[2N3055]

Maybe a table have a way to reset stats..

Resetting stats can be done (of course) but it's not something you really need to do when you have a sliding-window function like this.

Stats simply update themselves in the background.

That is quite obviously wrong and false. You never used stats for actual measurements. Resetting the stats is basic thing you do all the time.
You setup some measurement, let it run to verify if all works well and then you reset stats to start actual gathering of data that will be your measurement propper. And sometimes you tweak something, rest stats and see how it does now....

There are other smart stuff that stats can benefit from but on a scope this cheap that is a stretch..
So far what I see is OK.

[Fungus]

That is quite obviously wrong and false. You never used stats for actual measurements.

And you never had a scope with sliding window (or are failing to understand what one is).

Resetting the stats is basic thing you do all the time.
You setup some measurement, let it run to verify if all works well and then you reset stats to start actual gathering of data

By the time you verified it's all working you already have the stats on these Rigols. You didn't need to reset them.

(assuming the trigger events are happening fast enough)

But as noted, you can reset the stats if you insist on it.

You can even reset stats individually instead of all at once.

[2N3055]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism... this is DHO800 thread, not DHO900 MSO remember? i heard DHO800 FFT not good? i provided facts not fart talk, tell me what SA price has -120 to -140dB dynamic range? this is possible because Rigol proved themselve by providing API documentation and working PC SW example since DS1000E, and it got better and better. i havent seen one single sig-fanboy proved otherwise (siglent has better FFT? duh!) thats why i stick with Rigol brand... my Anritsu MS8609A cant reach -100dB let alone -140dB.. ignoring the fact by nitpick is of no use, try to prove its antialiasing weakness by eyeballing sine/repeating signal beyond nyquist sampling limit is unrealistic in real circuit debugging, if it is, why mourn entry level scope for that? get one of those 10GSa/s Lecroy DSO then you can be happy to probe your 500MHz at 20 points per cycle..

here again look carefully, open your eyes wide (attached image) and tell me what wrong with it? if you dont have clue, it proves you are the siglent fan boyism... this is only 5Mpts, i can push to 50Mpts now, and then do averaging to get even lower noise and smaller RBW. i know i know before you argue, DSO is no place for SA (same as LA is not for DSO to do imho), get the real SA. i did, but i know i have one extra tool at $400 to do redundant verification. now i have two actually, DS1000Z and DHO804 (err... or should is say DHO924? thanks to hubertyoung and friends) LA? serial decoding? i will venture DHO924 later when i need it, glad to know its there but so far my clone salae logic can do the job for my simple need.

Ad hominem again... Call me what you want, I still have bought more Rigol than Siglent products in my life so far.

Could you please explain what are these images?
Are those screenshots from scope, or made on PC from data pulled.

If those are made on your PC from data pulled from scope, that is just funny.
We are arguing FFT implementation on a scope is half cooked, and to disprove me you post images of FFT that you made on PC because FFT on scope is crap...
What a great irony is that?

And again, you just hate whatever I say without reading or understanding what i meant.

I did not say ADC is bad, I did not say input is noisy. I repeatedly asked if someone could pull data on PC so we can see how well ADC performs, because on scope FFT is weird..
Same as Fungus, you guys fight so hard not to do the right thing... If I was not insistent we still would have no good data.

So despite your argumentative and rude post I thank you for data...

[Performa01]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism... this is DHO800 thread ...

You're wrong. This was intended as test and compare thread, not a Rigol DHO800 praising and worshipping thread.

i heard DHO800 FFT not good? i provided facts not fart talk, tell me what SA price has -120 to -140dB dynamic range?

So what is it if not "fart talk" if you make such claims, taking everyone as a fool?

The very best high end spectrum analyzers like R&S FSEA30 can have up to 115 dB dynamic range, while the average SA doesn't have more than 80. So it's not very plausible, that a bottom of the barrel entry level scope will beat that by some orders of magnitude

Do you even know how dynamic range is defined? And then for a SA in particular?

We get no clear information about the test conditions or the input signal, but even so there is not more than 50 dB dynamic range visible on these meaningless screenshots. And a lot of spurious signals.

[2N3055]

That is quite obviously wrong and false. You never used stats for actual measurements.

And you never had a scope with sliding window (or are failing to understand what one is).

Resetting the stats is basic thing you do all the time.
You setup some measurement, let it run to verify if all works well and then you reset stats to start actual gathering of data

By the time you verified it's all working you already have the stats on these Rigols. You didn't need to reset them.

(assuming the trigger events are happening fast enough)

But as noted, you can reset the stats if you insist on it.

You can even reset stats individually instead of all at once.

You seem to have limited knowledge of stats and how it is used... In your defense coming from Micsig you couldn't learn about it. Now that you have scope with stats, you will see you will use it more than you though.

I have plenty of scopes, and some of them have sliding window (and I knew about it long before you, more than 35 years ago), some have limited run stats (they capture number of samples and stop), some limited length sliding window, and on some you can choose.
As you may see by now, all of those are used in different occasions, for different purpose.

Resting stats is something that you do all the time. It went over your head that to get good measurements, you need to measure several time to assure all is right. You do that by keeping scope running, and resetting stats several times.

Again, instead of attacking and insulting me to prove you don't know much, you should have just answered with actual good information: It has stats reset and you can even reset individual measurement.
That is good. Point for team Rigol...
Thank you for good info.

[2N3055]

sniff sniff i smell siglent fanboyism... this is DHO800 thread ...

You're wrong. This was intended as test and compare thread, not a Rigol DHO800 praising and worshipping thread.

i heard DHO800 FFT not good? i provided facts not fart talk, tell me what SA price has -120 to -140dB dynamic range?

So what is it if not "fart talk" if you make such claims, taking everyone as a fool?

The very best high end spectrum analyzers like R&S FSEA30 can have up to 115 dB dynamic range, while the average SA doesn't have more than 80. So it's not very plausible, that a bottom of the barrel entry level scope will beat that by some orders of magnitude

Do you even know how dynamic range is defined? And then for a SA in particular?

We get no clear information about the test conditions or the input signal, but even so there is not more than 50 dB dynamic range visible on these meaningless screenshots. And a lot of spurious signals.

Some people confuse dynamic range with noise floor. I've seen that many times. And ignore SFDR metric..

A question to the public: what is theoretical dynamic range of 12 bit converter?  72,247dB
That is for ideal (nonexistent, spherical cow in a vacuum type) converter.
Quantization noise and nonlinearities will get in a way of that ideal.