Rigol DHO804 Test and Compare Thread

[TurboTom]

Here are some DHO914S U/I findings that I really don't like and that don't make sense IMO: When changing parameters with encoders 1 and 2, and crossing decade boundaries (i.e. the unit multiplier changes), the digit that's going to be adjusted changes as well.

Example: In FFT, I manually set center frequency to 1kHz. This parameter gets automatically linked to encoder 1 (it's a pretty clever approach to link the lastly adjusted parameter to one of the "universal" encoders -- I like that). Now I use encoder 1 to increase the center frequency, it affects the 10Hz digit, so far so good. If I reverse the rotation, as expected the 10Hz digit gets decremented until I reach 1.00kHz again. If I continue to decrement, the next center frequency is 990Hz, only to decrement the 1Hz digit afterwards.

To me, this unaccounted digit jumping is utter nonsense. Moreover, if I press the encoder, the center frequency gets (re-) set to 1MHz, far off the range that had been selected before. I think for adjusting numeric parameters, the twist/push function of the universal encoders could have been utilized much more conveniently: Twisting changes a selected digit and stays on the (decimal) digit regardless of multiplier changes. Pushing the encoder toggles through the decimals/digits to be changed. The "reset" function is in most cases useless or rather counterproductive, especially if a wide range is covered by the parameter. There's the touchscreen pop-up keypad available to enter a numeric value if a wide-range adjustement to a certain value is desired.

I feel like complaining to Siglent who kept this same behavior on their legacy AWGs since a long time, though there it's a little bit worse still.

Stay on the digit without exceptions! 

[iMo]

So, it seems Rigol's strategy with the 800/900 series is perhaps following - the buyer makes the purchase because the box is cute, has got VESA mount, there is a 12bit logo and it could be battery powered.. And with the other parameters the buyer will perhaps slowly and laboriously find a mental justification why the purchase has been actually made, and even though the justification will not be found the Rigol is hoping the buyer is lazy enough to return the box after he/she/it realizes the box is not performing well, perhaps overpriced and may be the worst buy..
 

[tv84]

So, it seems Rigol's strategy with the 800/900 series is perhaps following

Exactly. And it has been working for some time. So, why change?

[Fungus]

So, it seems Rigol's strategy with the 800/900 series is perhaps following

Exactly. And it has been working for some time. So, why change?

It's no different than any other product ever made since the dawn of time.

[Fungus]

Ok, let's do some test and compare, starting with the UI:

It's definitely a lot slower and more clunky than a Micsig. Far too many unnecessary dropdowns and typing-in of numbers.

eg. Channel selection on the trigger menu. There's only four options, why can't it be radio buttons? A dropdown is an extra click plus you have to pause and look at the screen every time a dropdown appears.


This is so much faster:


If you want to change the trigger holdoff you have to pop up a keyboard and type in a number. With the Micsig you just swipe your finger on the box, it's a logarithmic scale so it takes about a second to get it in the ballpark, and that's all the accuracy you normally need. If you need more there's a fine adjust above it (see pic).

Compare with Rigol:

[TurboTom]

... Of course, this could have been arranged differently (like five direct selections CH1~CH4 plus "Digital", where tapping the latter would have opened a new window to select the digital channel), but this way it makes some sense as well...

[ebastler]

So, it seems Rigol's strategy with the 800/900 series is perhaps following - the buyer makes the purchase because the box is cute, has got VESA mount, there is a 12bit logo and it could be battery powered.. And with the other parameters the buyer will perhaps slowly and laboriously find a mental justification why the purchase has been actually made, and even though the justification will not be found the Rigol is hoping the buyer is lazy enough to return the box after he/she/it realizes the box is not performing well, perhaps overpriced and may be the worst buy..
 

Biased a bit? 

For many hobbyist users, this will be all the scope they were looking for and ever need. For others, it might be a compromise consciously made, in view of portability, space or budget constraints. For some it might be a second scope for portable use only. And for some, it will be just a vehicle to feel superior because they bought something else.

[Fungus]

Next up: What's with all the stupid on/off things? Haven't they heard of checkboxes? They take up far less space, they're much easier to use, and it's easier to see if something is enabled or not...

(Plus people are used to using them...they don't have to adapt to something new)

Why is it OFF/ON? Surely it should be ON/OFF? Does pale green mean it's on or off? 


Checkboxes are much clearer and the word "Label" is much better positioned:


Also: The channel name input box should be grayed out when the selection is "off" - a visual clue that it needs to be enabled.

[Fungus]

... Of course, this could have been arranged differently (like five selections CH1~CH4 plus "Digital", where tapping the latter would have opened a new window to select the digital channel), but this way it makes some sense as well...

On the DHO900 I'd put CH1~CH4 plus "Digital" as radio buttons and have a separate dropdown to select the digital channel.

[tv84]

For many hobbyist users, ...

Agree and let me add 2 more categories:

- those for whom this is better than what they'll ever need
- those that only buy it to be able to participate in the EEVBlog "pissing contests"

[2N3055]

For many hobbyist users, ...

Agree and let me add 2 more categories:

- those for whom this is better than what they'll ever need
- those that only buy it to be able to participate in the EEVBlog "pissing contests"

 

[Fungus]

Edit: I moved this to the bugs thread...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-oscilloscope-bug-reports-firmware/msg5111436/#msg5111436

[ebastler]

Should there be a separate thread for real bugs just in case Rigol is watching this?

Won't this one do?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-oscilloscope-bug-reports-firmware/

[Fungus]

Should there be a separate thread for real bugs just in case Rigol is watching this?

Won't this one do?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-oscilloscope-bug-reports-firmware/

Yep!

[Neutrion]

Is anybody going to do a test about general scoping abilities?
Like waveform update rate with full mem depth, channel noise, offset, accuracy, etc. ?
Just to know what to expect about when the bugs are eventually getting corrected.

[mwb1100]

For many hobbyist users, this will be all the scope they were looking for and ever need. For others, it might be a compromise consciously made, in view of portability, space or budget constraints. For some it might be a second scope for portable use only. And for some, it will be just a vehicle to feel superior because they bought something else.

Definitely.

A couple years ago when I was looking for an entry level scope, the DS1054Z and SDS1104X-E are the two that most reviews pointed to as very good bang for buck (with the GDS-1054B being thrown into the mix sometimes) - especially if hacking for extra bandwidth/features is acceptable.  I'd think that the DHO804 deserves to be in that list.  After a couple rounds of firmware fixes, it might even be considered the "go to" entry level scope.  At the very least it should drive down the prices of the other entry level scopes (the DS1054Z has already been dropped to $315).

If I were scopeless, I'd almost certainly choose the DH0804 over the DS1054Z or the SDS1104X-E - even with all the unknowns about it that are still floating around out there.

[Serg65536]

Rigol DHO800 waveform update freezing bug
This bug occurs at a horizontal scale of 200 ms per division and above, when you set the trigger position to the time before the capture starts.
Setting the trigger some time before the capture is used widely to debug large signal sequences. By moving the trigger position, you can study the whole signal in small portions.
Firmware version 1.00
https://youtu.be/FyM5jibkgfE

[Martin72]

I had to play around again this evening, but now it's the weekend....
My ordered stuff arrived, the USB adapter and a powermeter for USB-C.
The latter seems to work fine, the adapter did me no good, the stick is not recognized by the Rigol in the back(but not by the 1104X-E either).
The current shown in the picture is from the on state of the scope and that changes only marginally even if you enable everything possible.
But it decreases when the time base becomes longer..
I had taken the demo board for this and kept all 4 channels busy, 2 channels were allowed to decode, the other two to display a sine.

[Martin72]

Agree and let me add 2 more categories:

- those for whom this is better than what they'll ever need
- those that only buy it to be able to participate in the EEVBlog "pissing contests"

I also have another category:
- Those who bought it out of curiosity and are playing guinea pig by proxy with their tests.

[tautech]

The latter seems to work fine, the adapter did me no good, the stick is not recognized by the Rigol in the back(but not by the 1104X-E either).

Yes well, it is the 'USB Device' port same as X-E.

These will fix the miserly USB A port allocation:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255819611500

[Fungus]

The latter seems to work fine, the adapter did me no good, the stick is not recognized by the Rigol in the back(but not by the 1104X-E either).

Yes well, it is the 'USB Device' port same as X-E.

These will fix the miserly USB A port allocation:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255819611500

I've got a 3 Euro USB hub connected to mine and it works perfectly. I've got mouse and USB stick working together.

[tautech]

The latter seems to work fine, the adapter did me no good, the stick is not recognized by the Rigol in the back(but not by the 1104X-E either).

Yes well, it is the 'USB Device' port same as X-E.

These will fix the miserly USB A port allocation:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255819611500

I've got a 3 Euro USB hub connected to mine and it works perfectly. I've got mouse and USB stick working together.

Yeah of course but in a new design in this day and age a single USB A port is just plain being mean. It's not like there isn't any realestate to have added more.

[Fungus]

I still haven't managed to update my firmware. 

I know the USB stick works because I can see in the file manager.



I even copied the .gel file from USB to internal storage but it still didn't seem to recognize it.

The readme with that .gel file says "Version 1.01" and my 'scope has version "1.00" so I have no idea what's wrong.

[Martin72]

A new update is avaible ?

[dmulligan]

So the front USB A port is a host port, the rear USB B port is a device port.  I wonder if the USB C port is power only or if it is capable of being a device or host port as well, this would have to be through a powered hub of course.