Rigol DHO800/900 pre-sales begin

[Fungus]

If it has that perspective segmented mode I'd consider buying it for that alone - could potentially pay for itself on one debug session!

It's definitely in the DHO800 manual.

[tautech]

The DHO800 User Guide does mention the UltraAcquire Perspective mode.

Who wants to see 100 frames at once ?
Surely they mean it can capture 100 frames < pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

[ledtester]

Who wants to see 100 frames at once ?
Surely they mean it can capture 100 frames < pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

At 2:55 in the video the guy says "Now we can record 500k frames of this data." This number is dependent on the sampling rate you configure.

At around 4:47 it looks like you can choose any range of frames to build the visualization. The guy just happened to choose 100 frames and then pages through the recording in 100 frame blocks but it is clear from the UI that you are free to choose the start and end frame to be whatever you want for the visualization.

Edit: I guess the manual says that you can use at most 100 frames to build a visualization.

[Fungus]

Who wants to see 100 frames at once ?
Surely they mean it can capture 100 frames < pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

Try watching the video, he captures 500k frames (on a DHO4000, which has more memory).


What he means is that in that 3D visualization mode you only see 100 frames at once. You can scroll back and forth through the 500k but only see 100 at once.


Please post screenshots of the SDS1104X-E 3D mode for comparison.

[Fungus]

This number is dependent on the sampling rate you configure.

The sample rate and window size.

... pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

The DHO800/900 can have 50MPts of memory which easily beats the 14Mpts in the Siglent.

[tautech]

... pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

The DHO800/900 can have 50MPts of memory which easily beats the 14Mpts in the Siglent.

With all channels active ?

[Martin72]

Hehehe....

[Fungus]

The DHO800/900 can have 50MPts of memory which easily beats the 14Mpts in the Siglent.

With all channels active ?

Stop trying to move the goalposts. The task being discussed was using a single channel. The Rigol has more than 3x the memory for that task.

[Fungus]

Hehehe....

And who knows, it might be able to have much more!

It's the same firmware as the 4000-series so the limit will be defined in software. 

[2N3055]

Who wants to see 100 frames at once ?
Surely they mean it can capture 100 frames < pitiful, SDS1104X-E can capture and playback 80k frames !

Try watching the video, he captures 500k frames (on a DHO4000, which has more memory).


What he means is that in that 3D visualization mode you only see 100 frames at once. You can scroll back and forth through the 500k but only see 100 at once.


Please post screenshots of the SDS1104X-E 3D mode for comparison.

You are going to capture  half a MILLION of screens, and then sift through 5000 screens with 100 captures each visually and find a problem just by looking at those.. Good luck with that.
It is useless gimmick.

Other scopes have visual overlap mode and animation mode because that is useful. 3D plot are useful and used widely but not this way..

But that is not even the point. You are confusing segmented mode and UltraAck mode that are not the same..

In segmented (record) mode it seem it can capture 100 of thousands of captures and then only animated play trough them. I UltraAcquire mode it can only get some 100 or 80 captures, show them and then resets and starts again..

 The UltraAcquire mode is not available when any of the following functions is enabled:
cursors, decoding, Search, Zoom, Pass/Fail test, waveform recording, reference waveform,
roll mode, slow sweep mode, and XY mode. To switch to the UltraAcquire mode, please
ensure that all of those functions are disabled.

[RAPo]

well maybe not by visual inspection, but if the data in each of these 5000 "screens" could be saved to (usb-)disk, you could let the computer do it.
If these scopes are as hackable as they promise to be, you can even write your own app that does the search on the oscilloscope and present it in a fancy window with all the bells and whistles you want.

[Fungus]

You are going to capture  half a MILLION of screens, and then sift through 5000 screens with 100 captures each visually and find a problem just by looking at those.

If you bother to watch the video you'll see he types in how many frames to see at a time, in this case 100:



Presumably he could type 1000, the manual doesn't mention a limit.

By entering start/end values you could narrow it down very quickly to see a pulse and see what happened just before/after.

There's also a "search" function at the top of that window but I'm not sure what it does yet.

nb. You can view multiple channels simultaneously in 3D to see associated signals.

[2N3055]

well maybe not by visual inspection, but if the data in each of these 5000 "screens" could be saved to (usb-)disk, you could let the computer do it.
If these scopes are as hackable as they promise to be, you can even write your own app that does the search on the oscilloscope and present it in a fancy window with all the bells and whistles you want.

Save to disk and analyze? You can do on any oscilloscope for many years now. We are discussing built in capabilities...

As for "enhancing" the scope that worked so well for hundreds of people that said just that in many years so far...
I hope that someone actually do that for once....

So far, nobody did anything, except playing Doom and claiming the victory.. And scopes have been linux and with accessible OS for years now..

[2N3055]

Presumably he could type 1000, the manual doesn't mention a limit.

I'll leave  presumptions to you. I prefer reading the facts. Documentation specifically states:

Adjacent:  A maximum of 100 frames can be displayed on the screen at a time in this mode.
Overlay: A maximum of 100 frames can be displayed on the screen at a time in this mode.
Waterfall: A maximum of 100 frames can be displayed on the screen at a time in this mode.
Perspective:  A maximum of 100 frames can be displayed on the screen at a time in this mode.
Mosaic: A maximum of 80 frames can be displayed on the screen at a time in this mode.


Look. I suggest to you to wait for the scope to arrive before you pass the judgment. At this moment all that we know is suppositions and (probably not finished and flawed) documentation.
Once your scope comes in, you will see how it works and what you can really do with it. Rigol might have not documented all it can do, or may have not (yet) implemented what they put in docs...

When you have one you will be able to see real facts.

[Fungus]

So far, nobody did anything, except playing Doom and claiming the victory.. And scopes have been linux and with accessible OS for years now..

How many of them were android with unobfuscated APKs?

[RAPo]

Just saving it is not the biggest problem.
Saving and making your own algorithms for doing the analysis part is what I'm after.
Think machine learning, your own graphics instead of what the scopes deliver out of the box.
I agree that we can and should do much more than only play a game.

I'm unaware of a scope letting the end user make its own algorithms and graphics.
Do you have an example?

well, maybe not by visual inspection, but if the data in each of these 5000 "screens" could be saved to (usb-)disk, you could let the computer do it.
If these scopes are as hackable as they promise to be, you can even write your own app that does the search on the oscilloscope and present it in a fancy window with all the bells and whistles you want.

Save to disk and analyze? You can do on any oscilloscope for many years now. We are discussing built in capabilities...

As for "enhancing" the scope that worked so well for hundreds of people that said just that in many years so far...
I hope that someone actually do that for once....

So far, nobody did anything, except playing Doom and claiming the victory.. And scopes have been linux and with accessible OS for years now..

[2N3055]

So far, nobody did anything, except playing Doom and claiming the victory.. And scopes have been linux and with accessible OS for years now..

How many of them were android with unobfuscated APKs?

Seriously, Android is some magical thing that will write apps itself for you... Good to know...

[RAPo]

Seriously, Android is some magical thing that will write apps itself for you... Good to know...

While not android, but can write androids apps ....

[2N3055]

Just saving it is not the biggest problem.
Saving and making your own algorithms for doing the analysis part is what I'm after.
Think machine learning, your own graphics instead of what the scopes deliver out of the box.
I agree that we can and should do much more than only play a game.

I'm unaware of a scope letting the end user make its own algorithms and graphics.
Do you have an example?

well, maybe not by visual inspection, but if the data in each of these 5000 "screens" could be saved to (usb-)disk, you could let the computer do it.
If these scopes are as hackable as they promise to be, you can even write your own app that does the search on the oscilloscope and present it in a fancy window with all the bells and whistles you want.

Save to disk and analyze? You can do on any oscilloscope for many years now. We are discussing built in capabilities...

As for "enhancing" the scope that worked so well for hundreds of people that said just that in many years so far...
I hope that someone actually do that for once....

So far, nobody did anything, except playing Doom and claiming the victory.. And scopes have been linux and with accessible OS for years now..

I don't understand.

Fact that you have access to open Android is same as already dozens of scopes with open access to linux.
Unless manufacturer gives you scope API you are left out to dry, and reverse engineer scope internals..

AI analysis ? On a smartphone platform ?

As for scopes that do give API and all needed to make custom apps, filters and such is LeCroy on it's high end platforms..

[2N3055]

Seriously, Android is some magical thing that will write apps itself for you... Good to know...

While not android, but can write androids apps ....

Aha, ChatGPT... I understand now. Good luck with that..

[Fungus]

Seriously, Android is some magical thing that will write apps itself for you... Good to know...

It means you don't have to write a complete new firmware from scratch.

It means you can modify/replace individual objects in the firmware.

[iMo]

Aha, ChatGPT... I understand now. Good luck with that..

As a child I was often asked by my parents - "..and who will do it? .. dwarfs?"..
 

[RAPo]

It looks like these scopes are "more open" out of the box.

An API is not really necessary, this forum is full of reverse engineering examples that transform closed parts to more open parts.
I start in a modest way: signal analysis with machine learning. AI can come later (maybe upgraded models, but think out of the box: scope is connected to internet, sends the heavy lifting to
a  powerful cloud and GPU server ...).

How many hobbyists can afford a LeCroy? Think in options: with all these smart script kiddies coming from the university into the workplace. They've been trained to automate everything ...

I don't understand.
Fact that you have access to open Android is same as already dozens of scopes with open access to linux.
Unless manufacturer gives you scope API you are left out to dry, and reverse engineer scope internals..
AI analysis ? On a smartphone platform ?
As for scopes that do give API and all needed to make custom apps, filters and such is LeCroy on it's high end platforms..

[2N3055]

Seriously, Android is some magical thing that will write apps itself for you... Good to know...

It means you don't have to write a complete new firmware from scratch.

It means you can modify/replace individual objects in the firmware.

Yes.. Good luck with that.

[Fungus]

Fact that you have access to open Android is same as already dozens of scopes with open access to linux.

An android APK isn't the same as a bunch of compiled binaries.

Having an unobfuscated APK is almost the same as having the source code these days - see the screenshots in that link I gave you earlier for examples.