Review/comparison of Siglent SDS1000X-U and SDS2000X PLUS anywhere?

[larsdenmark]

Hi

Has anyone made a comparison of the Siglent SDS1000X-U and SDS2000X PLUS oscilloscopes?

I only do microcontroller stuff. Hence I would like to have the SDS2000X PLUS scope, but the logic analyzer is 500€ in addition to the cost for the scope and then I think I can live without it (since I already have a Saleae logic analyzer).

So from a practical point of view: what things will I be missing out by getting the Siglent SDS1000X-U instead of the (much nicer looking) SDS2000X PLUS?


Thanks
Lars

[tautech]

Hold off doing anything for a week or so if you can as I'm getting a X-U to Defpom for him to do a vid on it.
Mine are on the wharf but we have massive cargo congestion so I won't have them until next week when I'll run one straight to Defpom for him to have a look at.
As he has a X-E he will be pretty familiar with the UI so should do a quite reasonable review.

Other than them side by side which would be quite unfair as they are very different classes of scope, study of the datasheets can indicate their capability. There's threads here for each and I know rf-loop has one so study his posts on the X-U.

[tautech]

So from a practical point of view: what things will I be missing out by getting the Siglent SDS1000X-U instead of the (much nicer looking) SDS2000X PLUS?

Overview of most differences.

SDS1104X-U  $ 399
Compact form factor
1 GSa/s shared over 4 channels
~120 MHz BW
14 Mpts memory
7" display
1mV/div max sensitivity.
128Kpts FFT
Zero options available.
Great table of specs from rf-loop:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/msg3356644/#msg3356644

SDS2104X Plus  $ 1399
Two 2GSa/s ADC's each with 200Mpts memory support, shared over each 2 channel pair.
~185 MHz BW. BW Option upgrade path to 500 MHz.
10 Bit mode to 100 MHz.
10" touch and mouse capable display.
500uV/div sensitivity
Probe sense.
2 Mpts FFT
Bode Plot
Web server
Inbuilt 50 MHz AWG (option)
More decodes. (option)
Power Analysis (option)
16ch MSO (option)
All options except MSO are free as per current promotion.


Unknowns at this time.
Fan noise X-U vs 2kX Plus

[Performa01]

So from a practical point of view: what things will I be missing out by getting the Siglent SDS1000X-U instead of the (much nicer looking) SDS2000X PLUS?

In addition to the differences listed by tautech, here are some more features the SDS2104X Plus has to offer:

• 1 ppm time base accuracy
• Low noise frontend, comparable to the best in class
• Selectable 50 ohms input impedance (indispensable for direct coax connections and signals whose spectra significantly exceed 100MHz)
• Advanced two channel freeform math, including average and extended resolution
• Advanced trigger suite with holdoff by time or event for most of the triggers
• Zone trigger as a refinement for most triggers
• Selectable alternative representation formats for automatic and cursor measurements

The list might still be incomplete...

Edit: time base accuracy added

[rf-loop]

So from a practical point of view: what things will I be missing out by getting the Siglent SDS1000X-U instead of the (much nicer looking) SDS2000X PLUS?

In addition to the differences listed by tautech, here are some more features the SDS2104X Plus has to offer:

• 1 ppm time base accuracy
• Low noise frontend, comparable to the best in class
• Selectable 50 ohms input impedance (indispensable for direct coax connections and signals whose spectra significantly exceed 100MHz)
• Advanced two channel freeform math, including average and extended resolution
• Advanced trigger suite with holdoff by time or event for most of the triggers
• Zone trigger as a refinement for most triggers
• Selectable alternative representation formats for automatic and cursor measurements

The list might still be incomplete...

Edit: time base accuracy added

Timebase accuracy depends also how we define it. Or do we define it like some peoples claim GPS OCXO accuracy over 8 hour average ...

It depends do we mean 10, 100 or 1000 second average or something else.
1ppm accuracy inside 100s time window is ok for oscilloscope but there is other much more critical thing. Jitter, short time jitter.
Now lets take this 1ppm just for thinking. If there is 1ppm peak to peak jitter it mean that over 10ms period there can be 10ns p-p jitter and it is not good at in this class of scope. It is acceptable in 1kX-U but not in 2kXPlus..


Comparing jitter. Both run parallel and get same signal what signal itself jitter is here just nonsense. (very low jitter free running high grade DOCXO - no continuous discipline for avoid discipline changes). Freq 10.000000MHz+/-0.2Hz  As can see in images SDS2104XPlus jitter in this test is around 0.02ppm peak - peak

SDS1104X-U jitter in this test is over 0.45ppm peak-peak

Of course both test include source jitter (nonsense) and then trigger jitter, also nearly nonsense here.

I have not measured at all what is time base accuracy but looks like SDS2104XPlus is less than 0.4ppm off.
SDS1104X-U is more off but not measured. Trigger counter show 10.0000 continuously.
SDS2014XPlus trigger counter display 9.999996 and 9.999997 last digit changing continuously between 6 and 7.

In these images both scopes have 30s persistence. I have also watched over half hour both scopes parallel with this same signal and not notable slower drift.

SDS2104XPlus time jitter is - very good. Very good! Around 0.02ppm peak to peak.

Also SDS1104X-U time jitter is, imho, not bad in its class. under 0.5ppm peak to peak.

Of course these are just only individual one scopes. Both are random individual new ones not selected.

Note. Signal level is 1.6Vp-p  and pure sine. 20mV/div is for get slope more steep. Due to this it also overdrive input circuits. Effect can clearly see specially in SDS X-U image where result is S shape.  SDS XPlus have less this effect. Yes this is "wrong use" but only what matters here is timing, not vertical....so.

Just -- pay more get more/better.

[larsdenmark]

Thanks.

Except for the Inbuilt 50 MHz AWG I don't think the technical specs are making much of a difference to what I plan to use the scope for.

A decision may depend more on having a larger touch screen and a nicer user interface.

[tautech]

Unknowns at this time.
Fan noise X-U vs 2kX Plus

Amazingly not noticeably different. 
This is certainly where the 80mm fan in SDS2kX Plus vs the 50mm unit in the X-U comes into play.

Side by side

[tautech]

Hold off doing anything for a week or so if you can as I'm getting a X-U to Defpom for him to do a vid on it.
Mine are on the wharf but we have massive cargo congestion so I won't have them until next week when I'll run one straight to Defpom for him to have a look at.
As he has a X-E he will be pretty familiar with the UI so should do a quite reasonable review.

Finally got a X-U to Defpom yesterday as they only arrived last Friday. 
Hopefully he'll have a review up in a few days.

[bodzio_stawski]

I wonder how the buttons behave in both models. In my 1104x-e for example some buttons below the screen are noisy and I don't know why.

[tautech]

I wonder how the buttons behave in both models. In my 1104x-e for example some buttons below the screen are noisy and I don't know why.

Noisy ? 

Do you mean they have selection bounce issues ?

[bodzio_stawski]

Yes, I mean, the buttons work correct (their functions are ok), but after pushing some of them make some irregular "click" sounds (similar to gamepad for example). For example, on Keysight or even Rigol, all buttons sounds identically. In Siglent, the second and the last (return button) is loud.

[tautech]

Test, I mean, the buttons work correct (their functions are ok), but after pushing some od them make some irregular "click" sounds (similar to gamepad for example). For examppe, on Keysight or even Rigol, all buttons sounds identically. In Siglent, the second and the last (return button) is loud.

Oh, OK.
Big you know you can turn sound OFF ?
Utility menu>Sound.

[bodzio_stawski]

Yes, I mean, the buttons work correct (their functions are ok), but after pushing some od them make some irregular "click" sounds (similar to gamepad for example). For examppe, on Keysight or even Rigol, all buttons sounds identically. In Siglent, the second and the last (return button) is loud.

Oh, OK.
Big you know you can turn sound OFF ?
Utility menu>Sound.

No, it is not the "beep" sound being able to turn on/off in the system. When the beep is turned off and I start clicking with no system sound, you hear a button membrane sound. This sound comes out immediately after clicking as the diaphragm returns to its original position. And this sound is extremely different for the individual buttons below the screen (talking about these 6 rectangular buttons). Everyone clicks with a different sound, it sounds weird. As if some of them were more worn, some less. And the oscilloscope is practically new.

[tautech]

Yes, I mean, the buttons work correct (their functions are ok), but after pushing some od them make some irregular "click" sounds (similar to gamepad for example). For examppe, on Keysight or even Rigol, all buttons sounds identically. In Siglent, the second and the last (return button) is loud.

Oh, OK.
Big you know you can turn sound OFF ?
Utility menu>Sound.

No, it is not the "beep" sound being able to turn on/off in the system. When the beep is turned off and I start clicking with no system sound, you hear a button membrane sound. This sound comes out immediately after clicking as the diaphragm returns to its original position. And this sound is extremely different for the individual buttons below the screen (talking about these 6 rectangular buttons). Everyone clicks with a different sound, it sounds weird. As if some of them were more worn, some less. And the oscilloscope is practically new.

Ok my 2017 unit is completely silent. Maybe the new membrane just needs work as a new unit I just opened has a different feel for the membrane with a tiny crunchy feel that’s nearly silent.

[bodzio_stawski]

Ok my 2017 unit is completely silent. Maybe the new membrane just needs work as a new unit I just opened has a different feel for the membrane with a tiny crunchy feel that’s nearly silent.

You mean this could normalize over time? Maybe so, but I am afraid that such anomalies can be a sign of imminent damage to the oscilloscope in the near future. Maybe it is actually the result of the manufacturer's interference with the material of the membrane and that "that's how it is, and that's it". However, I am very curious how such a membrane looks from the inside of the device.

[tautech]

Ok my 2017 unit is completely silent. Maybe the new membrane just needs work as a new unit I just opened has a different feel for the membrane with a tiny crunchy feel that’s nearly silent.

You mean this could normalize over time? Maybe so, but I am afraid that such anomalies can be a sign of imminent damage to the oscilloscope in the near future. Maybe it is actually the result of the manufacturer's interference with the material of the membrane and that "that's how it is, and that's it". However, I am very curious how such a membrane looks from the inside of the device.

Yes, exactly.
I know of no membrane failures and now you have reported your concerns here and have a 3yr warranty please just continue to use it and if there turns out to be a problem we have this record of when you bought this to our attention.

[bodzio_stawski]

Ok, thank you, Sir:)

[tautech]

Defpom has a look at the new SDS1104X-U:

[MathWizard]

Wow I have a sds1104, I didn't realize how much bigger the sds2000x screens are. I already find my 1104 pretty big coming from old 1980's scope.

Yep this fall/winter I'll be saving up for a 2104X+. I might have to move a shelf a bit higher, but that would still fit nicely in my bookshelf/cabinet type thing I have AWG, DMM and PSU on.

[tautech]

Wow I have a sds1104, I didn't realize how much bigger the sds2000x screens are. I already find my 1104 pretty big coming from old 1980's scope.

I'm guessing you mean the 7" SDS110X-E ?
The earlier and now discontinued SDS1102X had a 8" display and the 2kX Pus have 10" but being a touchscreen it really needs be bigger so fingers don't touch too much at once. Personally I like a mouse with these as it provides even speedier operation and keeps the display clean of smudge marks.