REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[rf-loop]

hmm....  my SDS8102 arrived in a version  : V1.0.1.  May be i need to check for updates from Owon.  See if there is any update.

There is not public loadable FW updates.

If you buy from distributor (official what have deal with Owon, ask them) If directly from China or some "unknown" ask Owon with polite letter including your scope serial number and FW version what you have. service at owon dot com dot cn

[marmad]

hmm....  my SDS8102 arrived in a version  : V1.0.1.  May be i need to check for updates from Owon.  See if there is any update.

You have SDS8102 - they haven't been manufactured for as long as SDS7102 - different model.  Plus you just got it shipped directly from Owon a week ago; I'm sure there is no later firmware for SDS8102.

[Bren]

There is not public loadable FW updates.

That's a scary thought... Maybe OWON uses some sort of JTAG pins on the mainboard to update rather than USB?...

So you'll have to send the scope back to OWON or a Distributor?
Do you think they'll charge for the update? The total cost would then be $Shipping+$Labour.

Sounds like the scope is getting more and more expensive. 

[rf-loop]

No, afaik, update is by USB. Becouse end user can do it. Owon can send it to customer. Many end users have also buy directly from Owon.  (also distributor is customer )

But they really do not always new FW hurry and hurry...  you look Hantek. Just after FW update new update and some updates very loose done and new bugs and old bugs...  most I like personally product what do not need always update after update.  There need be wise developers who collect all repair and development needs and then carefully do it.

Owon FW looks like quite clean from bugs (but also littlebit less features and extra dingle dongles than Hantek) if compare Hantek where today is bug behind every corner - also with important things. (example capture meory selection bugs what is realy terrible). FW is neraly like mixed spaghetti after these "programmers" who do all just now and quickly before lounge and just as try-fail-try method. Pawns can write Feynman book if they try enough time.

Some small Hantek exaples. Last time there was bug(s)... scope crash down if select XY mode after normal default state. (one channel active when push XY) Now they have repair it. Oh, search help text... crash. Well... select exaple 500k mem. Oh... not 500... it is 400 but oh... it is sometimes not...it is 320?... oh now you turn scope more fast. Without warning it select 4k. (but still it show 512k.)  etc etc. How about display scaling... try cursors... change speed (stop mode) oh...  nice but wrong numbers.  Lot, really lot of things and some times feel that more and more after every update? Littlebit less total crashes. Total crash to mad random is now less.  FFT, still showing samplerate wrong. Still zooming and cursors positions calculated wrong.

Stop and change speed... oh where disappear your multi waveforms "fast" captured display... where they go... oh some measurement you can do only if scope run.. really clever.  But wow, you can change skin color to lime or pink... this is veery important. Later you get user manual as movie. Maybe also tetris.

Then peoples learn to first ask, how I can get new FW, every week, every day...once in year... like some important value. maybe tomorrow manufacturer specs are... 1G fast memory, 12" superdisplay... watch also video (Hantek) ... Voltage accuracy 0,1%, FW updates >6 per year(guaranteed minimum). etc...

I want ready made... never FW udate. I remember HP and -80's ... scopes are nearly ready before they come available, If there was one bug it was as big big shame ... nearly as full face loose. Today... peoples ask how often can get new FW. Just as  what rise time or do it have battery... do it have frequently updated FW.  I think this all is becouse B.Gates have born.

partially joke...

[Bren]

No, afaik, update is by USB. Becouse end user can do it. Owon can send it to customer. Many end users have also buy directly from Owon.  (also distributor is customer  )

But they really do not always new FW hurry and hurry...  you look Hantek. Just after FW update new update and some updates very loose done and new bugs and old bugs...  most I like personally product what do not need always update after update.  There need be wise developers who collect all repair and development needs and then carefully do it.

Owon FW is very clean from bugs (but also littlebit less features and extra dingle dongles) if compare Hantek where today is bug behind every corner. FW is neraly like mixed spaghetti after these "programmers" who do all just now and quickly and just as try-fail-try method. Pawns can write Feynman book if they try enough time.

haha, True.

My stance on the whole "update too often" thing is that I feel comfortable knowing that I can rely on a company continually updating the FW and correct bugs. It can be a pain however if you just buy a scope and there's been 10 updates out for it, and you have to update each one. I haven't looked at Hanteks update process, but they should make it so that you can update to the latest FW which includes all previous fixes... Maybe they do that already? They also cant support the product "forever", if they leave it and there are a lot of bugs around every corner, that could be bad for business. It looks like the newer Hantek models will be using the same/similar FW though, so I guess we can count on them supporting it for a while.

I'd take less dingle dongles for better FW. The one thing I just don't know about is the lack of a fine control... Maybe it's just me, but I liked my fine control, I would think its useful in some situations...

If OWON is going to be releasing updates, It would be far less expensive for them to set up a server and allow people to download from the website or setup an email server and email it to registered owners. This would limit (wo)man hours, and shipping costs (if they sent it by mail).

But your definitely right about the try-fail-try method. By that logic it'll be 10 years before anyone sees an update! 

I think this all is becouse B.Gates have born.

He's not entirely to blame, he just introduced the possibility to make products that work only sometimes, the rest was up to the manufacturers following his theory.

I coined it "Bill Gates Theory of Bugged Crapware".


Anybody else notice before microsoft came out that software for devices worked?

Still looking forward to your last video marmad. I'm sure there is a lot of setup and planning on the last one though, so take your time.

[rf-loop]

"haven't looked at Hanteks update process, but they should make it so that you can update to the latest FW which includes all previous fixes... Maybe they do that already?"

Thank Hu they have done this.

[rf-loop]

I try find info where was information that TFT have CCFL baclight. I did not find (maybe bad search or I remember wrong)

SDS7102 have Innolux AT080TN52 V.1

LED backlighted TFT

And this is really good news!  (Manufacturer well known Innolux, LED backlight)


"Quick info":

1 LCD size 8.0 inch(Diagonal)
2 Driver element a-Si TFT active matrix
3 Resolution 800 × 3(RGB) × 600
4 Display mode Normally White, Transmissive
5 Dot pitch 0.0675(W) × 0.2025(H) mm
6 Active area 162.0(W) × 121.5(H) mm
7 Module size 183.0(W) × 141.0(H) × 6.3(D) mm Note 1
8 Surface treatment Anti-Glare
9 Color arrangement RGB-stripe
10 Interface Digital
11 Backlight power consumption 1.782W (Typ.)
12 Panel power consumption 0.356W (Typ.)
13 Weight 258g (Typ.)

(if you have seen bad highly glossy terrible displays in some pictures there is glossy protection plastic what can take off just after buy)

Connector for backlight:

1 VLED+ P Power for LED backlight anode Pink
2 VLED- P Power for LED backlight cathode White

[marmad]

LED backlighted TFT
And this is really good news!  (Manufacturer well known Innolux, LED backlight)

Hmm... I think this is a non-issue.  There are good and bad points behind both CCFL and LED.  The main advantages usually mentioned with LED backlights is the fact that their brightness doesn't change over time - and that they last longer than CCFL backlights - but these are both fallacies.

From a Hitachi application note on LED backlighting:
"Attrition in LEDs is cause by the current flowing through an LED junction and non-uniform current flow, resulting in small temperature differentials within the chip. These temperature differentials exert stress on the lattice structure which makes up the LED, causing minute cracks to occur. These lattice defects accumulate with use, and reduce the photon conversion efficiency of the chip, so reducing light output."

And:
"The white and blue LEDs used in backlights suffer from higher attrition rates, due to their relatively high forward current required. Hence the lifetime of these LEDs are subsequently reduced, typically LEDs can be expected to last in excess of 100000, however  this is only true for red and green LEDs. However LCDs most commonly use backlights which produce white light, these backlights can be expected to last around up to 50000 hours, typically lasting between 10000-30000 hours with normal use, this compares to 50000 hours typically lifetime of a CCFL."

The data sheet for this display lists the LED life time as 20,000 - with the following note: 'The “LED life time” is defined as the module brightness decrease to 50% original  brightness at Ta=25? and IL =180mA.'  This is less than 1/2 the lifetime of a typical CCFL.

I have a 10-year old CCFL-backlit monitor running beside me - yes, it is dimmer than 10 years ago - but it is still working and totally usable.

[rf-loop]

Yes, but correct information is: Owon have Led backlighted TFT, not CCFL.

Some like apple, some like orange. I like that LED (bad or good) is today and CCFL's are history.
(I have repaired Agilent stuffs with CCFL's dead. Also inverters dead. )

in specs 20000 is minimum. Not typical. And 50%. 50% is not much of. Just like camera one stop of aperture.
If you have look in real life how much is one f stop with eyes?

But so or so. It is LED. No need more think what it is.

How is R&S or Agilent?

[marmad]

Yes, but correct information is: Owon have Led backlighted TFT, not CCFL.

I wasn't questioning that information. I was questioning this: "And this is really good news!"

in specs 20000 is minimum. Not typical. And 50%. 50% is not much of.

1)  The lifetime of backlights (CCFL or LED) is ALWAYS listed in specs as 50% of brightness - so the minimum lifetime of the LED backlight in this display is STILL 1/2 that of minimum lifetime of typical CCFL.
2)  The 'minimum' is also ALWAYS given in specs.  The fact that they DON'T list a 'typical' is actually not a good thing.
3)  50% is exactly what it is.  You can see the effect on the Owon by just turning the backlight down to 50% in the display settings.

To me, the only advantage of an LED backlight is no inverter (perhaps better colors - but this is debatable).  But for that, you often have to trade brightness and shorter lifetime.

[rf-loop]

Yes, it is good news.

Leds are in many places listed as 70% but also 50% is very common.

battery life in Owon.
 
battery is 8000mAh nominal.

datsheet aboit dislpay.
LED voltage min 9,3: typ 9.9; max 10.5V
current              162:      180:        198

In thi solution it is used
100% 9V,   (this is lower) More slowly decay.  compared to CCFL, LED only decay byt typically do not wear out like CCFL
80% 8.7V
50% 8.2V  good setup value for normal use 50 - 80%) Agen more lifetime
30% 7.9V
0% 7.35V   (still can use in dim room.)

Owon tell that typical battery time is 4h.  It means around 2A current.  Well, display baclight take 150mA. If you change it CCFL what is total including driver circuits.  Everyone understand that in this solution LED baclight is really like "anything" to do with battery live.

So what is problem.

Only more reliability. Maybe it is problem becouse if product lasting more than warranty time it is bad business.

[marmad]

Yes, it is good news.

Seriously?  You're going to keep this debate about the 'good news' going? 

compared to CCFL, LED only decay byt typically do not wear out like CCFL

Where do you get this information?  Please provide reliable source, as I did with the Hitachi note.  There is a LOT of misinformation about LED backlights around (many people believe they don't lose any brightness over their lifetime).

50% 8.2V  good setup value for normal use 50 - 80%

This is nonsense (or personal opinion).  I have the Owon in front of me - 50% is VERY dim - 80% is minimum I would want to use it in daylight (less, of course, is possible when in a darkened space).  The backlight is NOT very bright.  Do I have to remind you that you wrote just a few posts back:

Quote from: rf-loop on August 22, 2011, 07:44:31 AM
Good TFT. Also if dim baclight.

This was completely accurate: it's a good TFT but it has a dim backlight.  You should read your own posts 

0% 7.35V   (still can use in dim room.)

Then you have MUCH lower standards than me in terms of display brightness.

Only more reliability.

How so?  Again, according to the manufacturer's specs, the LED backlight in this particular LCD screen has HALF the lifetime of a typical CCFL backlight - this is based on data.

I get it - you like LED backlighting - I prefer it as well, all things being equal - but it is purely a subjective opinion because you haven't provided any hard data to support any of the claims you're making.  I mean, you could argue that not having an inverter in a noise-sensitive device is a good thing - but your other points: brightness and reliability are unsubstantiated.  I'm fine that it uses an LED backlight - but if you said to me, I can have a brighter screen if it uses CCFL (without adding extra noise to the device), then I would take the CCFL.

[rf-loop]

0% 7.35V   (still can use in dim room.)

Then you have MUCH lower standards than me in terms of display brightness.

Yes, I can see magnitude 5-6 easy with my eyes on the dark sky.

Btw... there was some misunderstooding becouse my language. as dim... dimmed..

Also, for my eyes I like more dim light lab. But then enough light just there I need.. under microscope or in the equipment this place what I'm repairing etc.

CCFL museum manufacturers proof what they want and led lightning manufactures they own.

Some like oranges, some apples.

LED backlighted Innolux TFT was good news to me and maybe also some others. There are lot of "grey" manufacturers for example cheap LED or CCFL lighted displays...  but this one is not these.  Also I believe reliability is better with LED. (I did not mean ccfl bulb itself reliability alone)

Who have never heard baclight inverter fails... maybe nobody.
Also some times EMI... but in this case EMI maybe do not be more worse if they use CCFL becouse scope power allready make  lot of noise. (but it is not alone Owon. Imho, I like better shielding for keep enviroment EMI low)

I do not start any argumentation competition... it is really waste of time. Everyöne can find datasheets and studies. Also other than manufacturer own studies about own products. (bias, just as hitachi... just as agilent... all do it)

[marmad]

Btw... there was some misunderstooding becouse my language. as dim... dimmed..

Ahh... sorry, I misunderstood.

I find the backlight a bit dim for my tastes - but I work in a 80m2 room with many huge windows along 2 walls.  It seems less bright then the Rigol was, although I have no way to compare anymore.  But it's definitely a nice quality LCD, nice anti-glare coating, etc, - as I highlighted in my video review.

But I have to say, I don't like Owon's choices of screen colors or font - and that they don't give you a method to control the relative brightness (or change the color) of the graticule - it's either on or off - and I feel it's too strong in comparison to the other elements on the screen.  But of course, these are all things that could be fixed/added in updated firmware.

But you know, it's so odd that the display of the Owon is higher resolution then the one on the new Agilent X series (and the quality level is probably equal or better), but it looks so crappy compared side by side to the Agilent, because of bad visual design.  Most of these Chinese manufacturers need to hire some GOOD visual designers - because their screen layouts, colors, fonts - sometimes even the product design itself - makes them LOOK cheap - and there's no reason it has to be that way - it's one of the easiest things to fix.

When I was a kid back in the '60s, no one took Japanese products very seriously because, even if they were well-made,  they LOOKED cheap.  But the Japanese learned this lesson quickly, followed later by the Koreans.  Now it's China's turn.

(bias, just as hitachi... all do it)

Hitachi makes many LCDs - some with CCFL backlight - some with LED backlight - they aren't biased towards either type of backlight.  The Application Note I quoted was just an assessment of the characteristics and attributes of LED backlights - and how to drive them.

[rf-loop]

But I have to say, I don't like Owon's choices of screen colors or font - and that they don't give you a method to control the relative brightness (or change the color) of the graticule - it's either on or off - and I feel it's too strong in comparison to the other elements on the screen.  But of course, these are all things that could be fixed/added in updated firmware.

But you know, it's so odd that the display of the Owon is higher resolution then the one on the new Agilent X series (and the quality level is probably equal or better), but it looks so crappy compared side by side to the Agilent, because of bad visual design.  Most of these Chinese manufacturers need to hire some GOOD visual designers - because their screen layouts, colors, fonts - sometimes even the product design itself - makes them LOOK cheap - and there's no reason it has to be that way - it's one of the easiest things to fix.

When I was a kid back in the '60s, no one took Japanese products very seriously because, even if they were well-made,  they LOOKED cheap.  But the Japanese learned this lesson quickly, followed later by the Koreans.  Now it's China's turn.

Yes. This all I can sign also.
Some words specially. Also I know this problematic. I have been there. And I'm very tightly connected to China.

But example scope... it can not do good useability if designer do not really have know-how and experience about measuring routines. There need be one "old guy" who know. But then there is also one tuth... all can not make happy. You do young hobbyists happy you loose professionals and wice versa. You can try both... many have try. I do not know any who have win this. So first they need select what side river they stand.

China flag:
1. color red  --> CH1 color red
2. clor yellow -> CH2 color yelow

Reason is so simple.

[marmad]

But example scope... it can not do good useability if designer do not really have know-how and experience about measuring routines. There need be one "old guy" who know. But then there is also one tuth... all can not make happy. You do young hobbyists happy you loose professionals and wice versa. You can try both... many have try. I do not know any who have win this. So first they need select what side river they stand.

This is true.  But even so, once they have tried to develop a good interface, structure, menu layout, etc,  they need at least one clever person with sharp visual design skills to look at it when finished and say, for example, 'No, it's not clean looking to have a san serif font printed on the front panel, but then a font with serifs on the LCD.  In fact, fonts with serifs don't look very good on LCDs because the low resolution can make them look too big."  ...Things like that.

[rf-loop]

But example scope... it can not do good useability if designer do not really have know-how and experience about measuring routines. There need be one "old guy" who know. But then there is also one truth... all can not make happy. You do young hobbyists happy you loose professionals and wice versa. You can try both... many have try. I do not know any who have win this. So first they need select what side river they stand.

This is true.  But even so, once they have tried to develop a good interface, structure, menu layout, etc,  they need at least one clever person with sharp visual design skills to look at it when finished and say, for example, 'No, it's not clean looking to have a san serif font printed on the front panel, but then a font with serifs on the LCD.  In fact, fonts with serifs don't look very good on LCDs because the low resolution can make them look too big."  ...Things like that.

Yes.
But have you look chinese font.  
Western countries are only small part on marketing area. (this is not for UI useability and ergonomic)
I hope that font is different for other languages than china. Maybe all think this now it is not good, but then if change, well one like apple one like oraange. Some near "system" font is imho best for technical equipm, simple without small nyances is best. Mostly I have like what big traditional companies like Tek, Agilent, R$S, and lot of good others use. They use lot of thinking for this kind of questions. maybe many group meetings what style and exactly place in one knob. Also this is expensive.

There are also cultural differencies with this "taste" what is outlook style etc. (but we know that there is also some kind of common things in human "taste" eyes)

But what ever language, UI can be lot of better useability. In all parts of Tellus.
Outlook, there may be cultural differencies. (shape, colors, touch...etc)

[rf-loop]

Just small test:

First picture.

Around 15ns pulses every 1us (pulsegenerator specified rise and fall times are 1.3ns)
Ch1 only in use. So 1Gsa/s  and 2ns/div
Scope automatic measurement show 2,64ns risetime

Second picture.

same pulse CH1 and then CH2 around 100MHz sine.
Samplerate now 500Msa/s.

Trig mode ALT.

Scope automatic measurement show 3.24 ns risetime.

Signal termination is not best, only 50ohm terminator before scope input.

Trig mode "ALT" works also fine. Both channel trigs  separately and trig is accurate. (CH1 and CH2 signal sources  have not any kind of syncronisation between each other, totally separate sources and both individually free running.)


Pulsegnerator pulse width is not exactly 15ns. So scope do not display wrong. Only meaning in this measure was risetime.
(<=1.3ns risetime do not affect markable to this risetime result, in practice "nothing".)

[hilltop]

Hello everyone.  First off, I'm new to this forum, so "Hello!"

I just wanted to post a couple of things I have learned in researching the Owon scopes.

In regard to firmware updates being released to fix the issues discussed here and I think also by 'marmad' on his youtube reviews:
I contacted Owon directly (sales@owon.com.cn) and received very quick replies from Mr Colin Lee at Owon.  He stated that they consider the Owon SDS7102 to be a "mature product" and thus have no plans for releasing firmware updates.  I sent links to the Youtube videos, and he apparently showed these videos to his development team.  Here is a snip from our email conversation:

ME: Thank you very much for your reply [regarding authorized resellers].  I wish to ask further questions regarding the firmware of Owon units.  How often do firmware updates get released for the SDS models?  and how would I receive these updates? would they be sent directly from Owon via email or is there a download site to obtain these?  I have read some excellent reviews regarding the SDS7102, but those people also commented that some features of the firmware need improvement, and I would expect that Owon would periodically release updates to improve their already excellent product.  I just want to understand how the update process takes place.

MR LEE:
Thank you for reply.
If a product needs to add functions or need to solve a bug, the firmware needs to be updated, it is right, but before selling our products, we already shape our products in good condition, so there is not promising to updated firmware often

If a product needs update firmware often, we can regard that it is not a mature product, is it?

If our products need update, we can send software to you via email, and you could operate update by yourself.

Kindly regards,
Mr. Colin Lee

Another reply after I sent the Youtube videos:

MR LEE:
After viewing, the man gave his opinion such as how to better design menu and show data in display, and also point out the features such as big LCD display, 10M record length, VGA Port etc.

After all, we think we have not plan to add the functions the man need recently, because we regard this unit as mature products. Unlike other brand scope need to update firmware time by time.

Furthermore, I contacted a USA distributor of Owon scopes (saelig), and asked basically the same questions.
Here are some snips from that email conversation:

ME: ...how do we go about obtaining firmware updates for this scope?  Will Owon release these updates to you, then we can get notified by email?  From everything I have researched, the Owon is a great scope, but some of the firmware features need lots of work, so I would assume the manufacturer will be releasing updated firmware occasionally.  I don't see anywhere on owon.com.cn to download firmware, and have read that Owon has a bad track record for publicly releasing firmware updates.

Al MacRobbie:
I found from OWON today that F/W upgrades are not, at least for the present, going to be made available to the general public.  OWON factory-authorized service centers (like Saelig Company) are to perform upgrades as a service to our customers. 

I spoke with a sales rep at Saelig.  He stated that they would perform such updates free of charge, but the owner would need to pay for shipping & handling.

I have a feeling Owon is trying to prevent these scopes from being hacked like the Rigol scopes have been. 

I hope this info is useful to someone.

Ryan


PS. I ordered a SDS7102, expected arrival next Tuesday, because even with the limitations discussed, it appears to provide suitable functionality for my basic needs. Not having a lot of fancy equipment, I can't do extensive tests on it, but if you have questions about the scope that can only be answered by having the physical unit, feel free to ask.

[marmad]

Hi Ryan,

Thanks a lot for sharing your info.  It's a shame that they aren't planning an upgrade soon, since I think the firmware needs some work still.  I also had some conversations with Colin at Owon - but mine were about some problems I discovered with the scope - but, in any case, he was responsive to my questions.

I've just been putting together the third and final part of my video review of the Owon, which I hope to get posted by tomorrow - or Monday at the latest.  But, before then, just let me say that, in my opinion, the Owon SDS line is a very well-built, good-looking, feature-packed (at least in hardware) scope that is definitely worth the money they ask.  But, unfortunately, it's not a very powerful or fast scope in it's price range - and that, at least for me, is the problem.  If you don't mind trading waveforms per second, fast screen updates, and DPO qualities for the 800x600 screen, 10Mpts, VGA out, and the battery option, it's probably the best you can do with your money.

[RCMR]

It is a shame that some of these manufacturers don't realize the value that can be had from releasing an open-sourced version of their hardware.

In the radio-controlled model market, one manufacturer (FlySky) has an 8-channel RC system (Atmel based) which comes with pretty crappy software -- adequate but really not using all the processor power available and delivering only minimal, partly-implemented features.  A couple of guys have developed their own much better firmware for these RC sets and the result is that they now perform as well as products costing four times as six or seven times the price.

As a result, lots of people are buying the radios and reflashing them with the new code.

The benefit for the manufacturer is that they no longer have to fix the bugs (not that they were bothering to do so anyway) because those who find the software bugs a problem can simply reflash to one of the better open-sourced versions -- and the product now has a much greater appeal because its capabilities are effectively doubled.

So long as a scope company isn't deliberately ankle-tapping its hardware by way of the firmware (like the Rigol) then there's surely nothing to lose by selling it with whatever documentation is required for others to write their own open-source (or proprietary) code.

Software seems to be the Archiles heel of many Chinese manufacturer so why not avoid a whole lot of hassle and allow users to fix/rewrite the damned stuff themselves?

[rf-loop]

Yes, captured and displayed waveforms per second is not fast. This is in this meaning as conventional capture-dislay-capture...scope. It can not display many captured waveforms more in one udated display frame.

Display update rate is maximum around 25 frames per second. (human eye can note around 10 per second (as simple  thumb rule only)  This scope work with this principle that one capture per one updated screen. Screen update rate go sslower if there are other functions as example persistece or some menu displayed) Andif capture is slower than maximum usable screen update time. (example if horz speed is 10ms/div it meand around maximum 5 updated capture per second and there is no any reason also update it faster on the screen.
So of course then wafeforms rate go slower if horiszontal time rise (time/div), this happend in all scopes.

But fast and fast... wfrms/s rate slow but...

You can look what is waveform rate in hantek (maximum). maybe it is ten times more. But, it can capture full speed only to 4k memory. Under half speed  can go to 1M memory (max 400Msa/s and 200 for 2 channel max)). There it can capture 400us/div with 100Msa/s (ten times slower)
Faster than 400us/s you can not at all use 1M memory.

What scope name can capture in this price class 1Gs/s speed if time setting is 500us/div. There are not so many.

But example random spikes hunting it can use slow horz speed, high memory and so high samplerate and this way you can also try minimize blind time ratio. This is not of course same as can do with high wfrms/s but some cases these cind of "optimizaton" may give cheap way to solve some needs.

If really need high wfrms/s and small percent blind time it need buy real fast wfms/s RTO/DPO as Agilent or Rohde&Schswarz.

More I have look Owon - it feels better. (UI is not as good as it can do with these HW what scope have... there are unused resources lot of)

So, as Hantek, as Rigol, as Owon, etc there are many pros and cond including money. Owon most high strenght is 10Msa full speed memory. And also nice good display and really nice outside quality. It is and all these are compromize with littlebit doiffenrent weighted things in design.

Also extremely nice that fan in Owon is really silent. It is difficult to find there is fan.
Also fnishing is good. So good that someone tell that - where I can see China... "made in China"-look  do not pop up to eyes.

[hilltop]

(Hope this isn't too off-topic... it's in reply to what RCMR said)

I absolutely agree, RCMR.  So what would it involve for several EE's to get together and design an open-hardware scope?  There are several projects out there which are partially open, for example DPScope (dpscope.com) (open hardware, closed source software and firmware), bitscope.com, etc...  Also see http://www.opencircuits.com/Oscilloscope
However, it seems they are all low-bandwidth and partially closed projects, as well as being PC scopes rather than standalone units.

It would be great to see a fully open scope, well designed and well documented, which could offer features of some of the higher end scopes, and also allow full customization by the end user if desired.

I would certainly be willing to contribute to such a project in any way I can (programming, UI design, electronics design, parts sourcing, etc)

Want to start a new topic to discuss this?

Ryan

It is a shame that some of these manufacturers don't realize the value that can be had from releasing an open-sourced version of their hardware.

In the radio-controlled model market, one manufacturer (FlySky) has an 8-channel RC system (Atmel based) which comes with pretty crappy software -- adequate but really not using all the processor power available and delivering only minimal, partly-implemented features.  A couple of guys have developed their own much better firmware for these RC sets and the result is that they now perform as well as products costing four times as six or seven times the price.

As a result, lots of people are buying the radios and reflashing them with the new code.

The benefit for the manufacturer is that they no longer have to fix the bugs (not that they were bothering to do so anyway) because those who find the software bugs a problem can simply reflash to one of the better open-sourced versions -- and the product now has a much greater appeal because its capabilities are effectively doubled.

So long as a scope company isn't deliberately ankle-tapping its hardware by way of the firmware (like the Rigol) then there's surely nothing to lose by selling it with whatever documentation is required for others to write their own open-source (or proprietary) code.

Software seems to be the Archiles heel of many Chinese manufacturer so why not avoid a whole lot of hassle and allow users to fix/rewrite the damned stuff themselves?

[rf-loop]

Here is SDS7102 frequency response.  Not bad. Note that freq scale is linear. Yellow spikes are generated in CH1 adding pulse when freq step. (step is 10MHz, starting 1MHz ref level.  -6dB point is around 250MHz.
maybe this 200MHz level is possible to rise - if <clip>. But other hand... it is maybe better to add brickwall filter after littlebit over 200MHz, it is maybe more important than mod to more high freq resp.

[saturation]

Although its possible, I think it won't be cost effective.  It gets more difficult the more bandwidth you need;  so far the highest frequency DIY DSO I've seen is this Polish school project, it has ~ 5 MHz of true bandwidth and ran to  ~ $300 in parts, just $100 shy of the 60 MHz Rigol.



See the comments by the builders.

(Hope this isn't too off-topic... it's in reply to what RCMR said)

I absolutely agree, RCMR.  So what would it involve for several EE's to get together and design an open-hardware scope?  There are several projects out there which are partially open, for example DPScope (dpscope.com) (open hardware, closed source software and firmware), bitscope.com, etc... 
Software seems to be the Archiles heel of many Chinese manufacturer so why not avoid a whole lot of hassle and allow users to fix/rewrite the damned stuff themselves?