REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[bertchai]

I just placed order directly from Owon in China.  Let's see how long it will take to arrive.   

[marmad]

I just placed order directly from Owon in China.  Let's see how long it will take to arrive.   

If you can, please let me know what your series and version number are when you get it:  Utility -> Function -> Config -> About

Thanks!

[bertchai]

I just placed order directly from Owon in China.  Let's see how long it will take to arrive.   

If you can, please let me know what your series and version number are when you get it:  Utility -> Function -> Config -> About

Thanks!

Definitely.  I actually order the 8102. But will still post.  I was going to get the 7102, but then I was tempted by the 2Gs/s.   

[marmad]

Definitely.  I actually order the 8102. But will still post.  I was going to get the 7102, but then I was tempted by the 2Gs/s.   

Great (I was also tempted - but I got very a good price here for the 7102 I couldn't refuse)... don't forget to post a review here! 

[rf-loop]

I'm now littlebit confused:

Some OWON product catalog have small differencies. (some catalog have text March 2011 some not but both have SDS serie
Also one italian seller "sglabs" sell SDS7102 and his picture looks like RS232
Also  http://www.zeitech.de/OWON-SDS7102-100-MHz-Oszilloskop 

And same for SDS8102 model:

http://www.zeitech.de/OWON-SDS8102-100-MHz-Oszilloskop

Option RS232 (satandard),  or VGA with extra price?


What is normal standard model today if buy just SDS7102 without any "option"?

[marmad]

I'm now littlebit confused:
Some OWON product catalog have small differencies. (some catalog have text March 2011 some not but both have SDS serie
Also one italian seller "sglabs" sell SDS7102 and his picture looks like RS232

Yes, I was confused beforehand as well - because I also saw pictures with RS-232 port instead of VGA.  Also, some sites list some models as having COM port AND VGA - and others don't even list the VGA (see saelig.com).  Also, on the case, the port is identified as COM/VGA - but I don't think there are any COM port connections on the VGA connector (even though there are 4 free pins on a normal VGA connector) - so they must have designed that there (awhile ago) when they hadn't made up their minds how to use it yet for which models - but I don't think there are any COM port models (see below).

Basically, I think the confusion is due to Owon not firming up their specs before starting to advertise (but I'm not sure).  But I know that the 6062 does NOT have VGA or RS-232, and all the models >=7102 are supposed to have VGA as standard.  It's strange that one site is offering it as an option (have they even seen the scopes?) - I've never seen that before - how does an RS-232 connector even fit in the VGA solder pads on the main board?  It would require different main board or strange adapter. And there is NO mention of RS-232 or COM port in the manual for the SDS line.  My mistake, actually it's mentioned twice: in the pictures of the different sides of the case - and in the specs at the end of the manual "Communication port:  USB2.0, USB for file storage, VGA port or RS-232".

Check the spec chart at Owon: http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/smartDS.asp - I think it is correct (except for VGA on 6062).

http://www.zeitech.de/OWON-SDS8102-100-MHz-Oszilloskop

Don't buy from them - their prices are HIGH! (Their price for the battery also sucks - double the price mentioned below.)

BTW, best price that I've seen so far (in EU) for SDS7102 is still http://www.eleshop.nl/nieuwe-serie-owon-sds7102-p-480.html
And best price I've seen so far (in EU) for SDS8102 is http://develissimo.com/online-shop/category/measurment/digital-oscilloscopes/  (they have best price on battery, too).

What is normal standard model today if buy just SDS7102 without any "option"?

As far as I know, everything I mentioned in my review (I didn't buy any 'options') - and my unit is approximately 4-5 weeks out of the factory.

[rf-loop]

Of course I think no one buy this .de store. Look what is soft carry pack price also. hehe.

But these and lot of other sides I find becouse I make some study what all info I can find and  how much there is maybe disinformation. Some info and pics still let me littlebit thinking that if some early "zero" version have difference. But also it may be that peoples mix models and pictures.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/266/005/392/392005266_113.jpg  (this I loose where it was but searching was SDS7102 and original place some Alibaba?.

Then eleshop and this picture is where is: Nieuwe serie: Owon SDS7102
but picture is: http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_SDS6062-a.jpg

If people do not look picture address inserted on the side... he may think it is 7102 picture.

It is very fun to use google picture find and follow these links..

How average  people who maybe have not lot of experience about buying and equipments can know what they get if they buy from some place without amount of letters where need ask every sigle detail.

[marmad]

So maybe the 6062 does have RS-232 port (different main board as well?), but scopeman (who reviewed it in another thread) didn't mention it - and it's not mentioned in the manual.  But for sure, the upper models have VGA - why would anyone want RS-232 instead?  Owon is not supporting SCPI commands or GPIB - so no reason - faster and better to use USB 2.0.

Also, this image (http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/266/005/392/392005266_113.jpg) is definitely early-production version of case - no COM/VGA marking, LAN port soldered in (ha!), encoder knobs different, and there are no colored circles around the div knobs.  I think this is for publicity early on - in fact, no electronics inside that case

[rf-loop]

Yes it was amazing internet round trip!

[marmad]

BTW, it's clear from all the info posted in this thread that Owon made special rates available in the last 2 months (I wonder what the manufacture cost is?) in order to get the SDS line to market and selling quickly - and that now (or sometime soon) they want to raise the prices a bit - so for anyone interested, it might be a good idea to buy soon.

[rf-loop]

I will answer to my own question about VGA.

SDS7102 (maybe all SDS) have factory standard version where is RS232. VGA is  factory option! (and also not retrofit option afaik) Also this version is littlebit higher price.  Now only problem is Owon product catalog and technical specs where Battery is stated as option but VGA is listed without text "option".  For avoid misundestanding they need correct this. Reseller/distributor may have both versions and they need carafully tell what version they sell. I do not know what is exactly meaning that VGA is shared with RS232 and VGA is option.
Maybe later I have posibility to test it in real. But if someone have allready this version it is nice if he can test if there is hidden RS232 implemented in VGA connector?? (please someone who have possible to test: check and share this information after it is exactly sure  how it is. (who need RS232 is other question - and what for it it is.)

This question rise becouse someone tell me that he have order one SDS version and he was asked extra price for VGA. Now it is clear.  It is factory option today.

Look carefully that buy right model from distributor/reseller. (Some seller may have only one version, with or without VGA.

[marmad]

SDS7102 (maybe all SDS) have factory standard version where is RS232. VGA is  factory option!

Strange... well, I was never asked if I wanted that option - but I would have returned it if it didn't come with VGA - since that was how I saw it publicized online.

Also this version is littlebit higher price.

Different interconnect board or no Chrontel chip, etc, installed.  Don't get the model without VGA - that would be a bad choice.  €20 for VGA option out on SDS series - $400 for VGA option out (and LAN) on Agilent 2000 series?

Now only problem is Owon product catalog and technical specs where Battery is stated as option

Problem with English... battery is not an OPTION from factory - the scopes do not come delivered with battery.  All models can OPTIONALLY run from battery power if you buy separately the SDS battery.

But if someone have allready this version it is nice if he can test if there is hidden RS232 implemented in VGA connector?? (please someone who have possible to test: check and share this information after it is exactly sure  how it is.

Just checked the VGA output pins with scope - no activity or voltage on the NC pins (but probably needs jumper installed inside if using same main board).  Vertical Sync is 60Hz - so that is the refresh rate of the external monitor.

(who need RS232 is other question - and what for it it is.)

It's just a different way to connect PC to scope (it's the same on the Rigol) - easier for some people to write software for (especially if re-using drivers) - but slower than USB 2.0 connector.

[rf-loop]

Strange... well, I was never asked if I wanted that option - but I would have returned it if it didn't come with VGA - since that was how I saw it publicized online.

Yes, you did not buy from factory, you buy from reseller who have select this model from factory.
VGA is not stated as "optional" but still it is exactly factory option. You buy RS232 version OR VGA version from factory and RS232 version is standard and VGA version is "optional". Understanding problem? I can explain better if need.

Problem with English... battery is not an OPTION from factory - the scopes do not come delivered with battery.  All models can OPTIONALLY run from battery power if you buy separately the SDS battery.

Yes. And it is stated in papers (optional)

It's just a different way to connect PC to scope (it's the same on the Rigol) - easier for some people to write software for (especially if re-using drivers) - but slower than USB 2.0 connector.

Of course I know this. I have more than 35 years experiance in industry designing systems and doing labs. I have do lot of work in time when no one have heard about USB. I have used lot of different serial connections, not only just RS232 and I know exactly what they are and how to use these and what for. Question is now... who really need RS232 in this scope so much that factory have selected this as "standard" model. Today I think RS232 can be "option".  I know some few reasons it may be sometimes useful but less and less today. Also I know how poor is PC/Windows serial port hassle. It is just nearly as garbage design - thank Bill gates and MSDOSWindows. If you like you can find Agilent note about SCPI commanding via RS232 using windows based PC "copmputers". It can say that it is design mistake. But we need live with it. (there is badbad mistake in windows what meke possible to loose data, just becouse how windows and PC "computers"  handle serial port data so that there is possible loose data just becouse windows is "blind" sometimes for this. This is one reason why peoples must not do any trafic via RS232 by windows PC if need high reliability. Or there need be special protocol layer for wathing and take care this issue.


I know Rigol. Rigol have also "commands" what can use trough RS232. Where is Owon commands. I have do "lot of" with Rigol and PC via RS232. But not today becouse I totally stop play game with Rigol company.

I have not yet see any SCPI or other command set for SDS scopes, not SDK, not anything how to use USB or RS232 for commanding scope.
So, I ask agen, what for is RS232 implemented today as most of computers have USB. Oh... in secure places some USB are forbidden.. maybe they want use RS232.  I personally like use teminal some times for commanding machines "by hand" but I believe not this scope.

So my opinion is that it is better if VGA is standard and RS232 is option. But I do not know all markets area and some territory in world may still want RS232.

[marmad]

A quick fix for the problem of the SDS model scope sliding around the desktop:

[rf-loop]

Yes, now after marmad say, it is stated in User manual.
"Communication port: USB2.0, USB for file storage, VGA port or RS-232"

Now it is more clear if it is stated in product promotion/catalog as
Communication port: USB2.0, USB for file storage, VGA port (factory optional) or RS-232 (factory default)
or something like this.

Of course reseller need tell/show to customers what version he is selling.

[marmad]

Yes, you did not buy from factory, you buy from reseller who have select this model from factory.

No, I don't think that's correct.  I think Owon has changed their policy.  The reseller I bought it from has been in contact with Owon about these models since middle of May.  Here are some excerpts from their communication with Owon (roughly translated to English):

"19 May 2011: Bad news! Just now the entire stock of Owon PDS7102T was bought by another company, and as they had already indicated, OP = OP. Our expectation was that they would not go so fast... So the PDS7102T is already sold out, a shame, because this was the most popular model in this action. In consultation with Owon, the SDS7102, brand new (faster, more memory, LAN/USB2.0/VGA), has been added for an additional cost of only € 35."

"24 May 2011: Today I learned from Owon that the SDS7102 has no LAN port. Furthermore, they did not expect that we would suddenly want around 40; they can produce 20 in early June, but it is not known when the rest will be ready. I am awaiting the response of the production department."

So, in these communiques from Owon, VGA does NOT sound optional.   If what you say is true now, then maybe Owon have changed their policy since then to make/save some extra money (which would explain all of the data floating around the Internet which does NOT list it as an option).

Here is original promotional brochure for SDS line:
http://www.eleshop.nl/downloads/Owon/SDS.pdf

This is from an early spec sheet for SDS6062, where it lists USB or RS-232 as the communication port:
"Communication port:   USB2.0 or RS-232,USB flash disk storage"

[marmad]

BTW, one specification of some interest I just noticed (if you believe their specifications), which could be an indicator of non-(or less)interleaving:

The time delay between channels on Rigol and Hantek is listed at 500ps - on the Owon, it's listed as 150ps.

[rf-loop]

So, in these communiques from Owon, VGA does NOT sound optional.   If what you say is true now, then maybe Owon have changed their policy since then to make/save some extra money (which would explain all of the data floating around the Internet which does NOT list it as an option).

Yes, this is fully possible. Also I have think just with this case that it may be reason. Also it is very common thhat chinese specs and promotions material are littlebit inaccurate. Partially also becouse chinese translation to western languages is littlebit difficult or impossible. Flowers under foot give heartfull frequency ocean and mature oranges and so on.

[marmad]

Flowers under foot give heartfull frequency ocean and mature oranges and so on.

I want to know what 'flowers under foot' means! 

[rf-loop]

Flowers under foot give heartfull frequency ocean and mature oranges and so on.

I want to know what 'flowers under foot' means! 

Go to chinese forums or other chinese langiuage places, sides. take chinese text and use google translator. You have lot of fun.
But if you translate example from english to chinese, do NOT send it to chinese language peoples. Becouse you do not know how it affects. haha. I know how danger it may be - or lucky. (I'm married in China and now I feel that I'm marry not only with people but also with state - I know something)

[marmad]

Ok, can someone (tinhead, rfloop, etc) give me an explanation for how wfrms/s is exactly calculated?

I have seen the figures for Rigol, Hantek, new Agilent series, etc, but I'm trying to get my head around the math.  For example, if the Hantek does 2500 wfrms/s - does that mean it can actually move 5GB (1M x 2500 x 2) of data into sample memory per second?  That seems highly unlikely... so is that wfrms/s figure based on a sample depth of 4k, 16k, or 40k - which seems more plausible.

[rf-loop]

This Rohde&Schwarz paper is very good also.

Reading this  give lot of understandig what is going on with wfms/s and scope blind time. Some times highes wfms is not best sometimes it is.

www2.rohde-schwarz.com/file/1ER02_1e.pdf

Also Fig 9, 10 and table 3 need sometimes thinking. Sometimes need extremely low blind time %

[rf-loop]

My question (earlier) for wfms/s was made becouse I find that Owon have trig out (rare in this price class)

Then I think if it can use somehow just like this (if have equipments for this):

R&S:

Measurement of the blind time of my oscilloscope
There are various ways to evaluate the actual waveform acquisition rate, and the
corresponding blind time of a digital oscilloscope. Since the waveform acquisition rate
can vary with instrument setup, the evaluation must be performed for the current
measurement conditions.

Some oscilloscopes offer an acquisition counter, others have a direct acquisition rate
performance display. Another possibility is to monitor the trigger out of the
oscilloscope. Every rising edge represents a new acquisition.
Just be careful to ensure that the signal source contains available trigger events that
occur more frequently than the expected waveform acquisition rate. Otherwise, the
measurement results will not show the true oscilloscope performance.

[marmad]

Before my question was made becouse I find that Owon have trig out (rare in this price class)
Then I think if it can use somehow just like this (if have equipments for this):

We talked about this earlier in the thread - but the Owon trigger out is pretty much the same frequency, from 2ns until around 1ms - so I think it's more related to screen refresh times than wfrms/s - but I'm re-measuring again, this time with pull-up resistor to 5v into frequency counter.

[marmad]

@tinhead,

Thanks for the data from Agilent. Very interesting.

BUT (I don't really know one way or the other) I think your Hantek figures are how many waveforms over 10 seconds the Hantek acquires, NOT the average.  Otherwise, if you are correct, then the Hantek would be FASTER than the Agilent 3000 series at 20us, 200us, 2ms, and 20ms/div (actually, faster than every oscilloscope in that comparison) - which I find hard to believe.  But the figures/10 are closer to what you would expect given the chart in the Agilent literature (and around what they show for the LeCroy WaveSurfer or Tek TDS3000 Series) - assuming, of course, that Agilent's data is accurate.