REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[kaz911]

here an update with my Owon scope's problems

bad stuck on green pixel :

i got update from my ebay seller and also from Owon's service,  1 bad pixel is NORMAL thing and is not a defect...
my seller said i need a bunch of them to be considered has a defect...

so people be aware of that  you may end up with a bunch of them 

bad probe:
for my probe defect, they said they will ship me a replacement ...

all LCD manufactures have a dead pixel policy. Among the worst are Apple and Acer. My Thinkpad had 4 in the middle and would not exchange the display. But then another 10 went - and they had to. (one block of 6 = screen replacement)

But they change their "Dead Pixel" policies very often - possibly based on the average number of defective pixels + 3 :-)

[tinhead]

stop comparing cheap enduser product manufacturers (and their TFTs) with industrial TFT.
Innolux can deliver, when you buy at least grade A, displays with no dead pixels.
It seems Owon is trying to save few cent and using cheaper displays, i would send
such DSO back. I don't trust such manufacturers, who knows what quality other parts are.

[aghp]

stop comparing cheap enduser product manufacturers (and their TFTs) with industrial TFT.
Innolux can deliver, when you buy at least grade A, displays with no dead pixels.
It seems Owon is trying to save few cent and using cheaper displays, i would send
such DSO back. I don't trust such manufacturers, who knows what quality other parts are.

This kind of pixel fail in Owon is quite rare. I have not seen any. Just also same for  Hantek what I have seen many.
Up to this day I have not meet any stuck on pixel as fail.
afaik, both manufacturers use Innolux industrial grade TFT panels.
All TFT I have seen in Hantek they are same Innolux panels but different dimensions and pixels. 800x480 in Hantek and same panel type but 800x600 in Owon.  (becouse different using of display area they are quite equal in oscilloscope display meaning. (owon use fixed area of menu bottom of screen so signal area is very near same)
Display panel quality is equal. (if Owon have just changed display this I do not know)
(today Innolux is Chimei-Innolux)

Contact seller (if seller is ok with Owon they can negotiate it with Owon, it must not be end user problem if reseller is real ok) or directly Owon hk service and tell failed TFT.

[T4P]

stop comparing cheap enduser product manufacturers (and their TFTs) with industrial TFT.
Innolux can deliver, when you buy at least grade A, displays with no dead pixels.
It seems Owon is trying to save few cent and using cheaper displays, i would send
such DSO back. I don't trust such manufacturers, who knows what quality other parts are.

This kind of pixel fail in Owon is quite rare. I have not seen any. Just also same for  Hantek what I have seen many.
Up to this day I have not meet any stuck on pixel as fail.
afaik, both manufacturers use Innolux industrial grade TFT panels.
All TFT I have seen in Hantek they are same Innolux panels but different dimensions and pixels. 800x480 in Hantek and same panel type but 800x600 in Owon.  (becouse different using of display area they are quite equal in oscilloscope display meaning. (owon use fixed area of menu bottom of screen so signal area is very near same)
Display panel quality is equal. (if Owon have just changed display this I do not know)
(today Innolux is Chimei-Innolux)

Contact seller (if seller is ok with Owon they can negotiate it with Owon, it must not be end user problem if reseller is real ok) or directly Owon hk service and tell failed TFT.

At least for the SDS7102T as for the MSO8102 it's the same as hantek . God i still remember the days of SVGA 

[voidptr]

ZAP
Contact seller (if seller is ok with Owon they can negotiate it with Owon, it must not be end user problem if reseller is real ok) or directly Owon hk service and tell failed TFT.

my seller told me i need at least 3 dead stuck on pixels to be considered a bad lcd, so else i will pay for exchange and there is no warranty i will get one without bad pixel ...

so i think i can live with it, until i have enough money to buy a scope from a better company...

 

[rf-loop]

At least for the SDS7102T as for the MSO8102 it's the same as hantek . God i still remember the days of SVGA 

Owon do not have SDS7102T model.  If you mean SDS7102V (this whole thread is for SDS7102) it have different display than MSO8102 is MSO8102T  and it have 8" 640 x 480 display.

SDS7102 and SDS7102V have 8" 800x600 (and this is SVGA)

What was your point?

[T4P]

At least for the SDS7102T as for the MSO8102 it's the same as hantek . God i still remember the days of SVGA 

Owon do not have SDS7102T model.  If you mean SDS7102V (this whole thread is for SDS7102) it have different display than MSO8102 is MSO8102T  and it have 8" 640 x 480 display.

SDS7102 and SDS7102V have 8" 800x600 (and this is SVGA)

What was your point?

My point was . THERE ! The SDS7102 had more pixels then the hantek screens although being the same and the mso8102 having a vga display .

[longpole001]

ITs now been over 8 months since MARMAD started the review on this scope  ,  and with such along 45 page post on it i hope that MARMAD , may do an updated review for Youtube 

Taking into account his experiences ,which would include

1. review OWON  relating to software updates  and their  approach / frequency  of updates  thus far ,
1a. OWON  policies on bad pixels on screens and warranty returns and how they go about it
2. hacks if any  ,
3. general measuring issues that have shown up since review
4.  reflect and add information from some who have contributed to this  very long post , ( that i have read from the start).
5. the wish list of features that owon have indicated may be included in future updates if any

Based in no small part to this thread and the review done by MARMAD ,  I too have just purchased OWON SDS7102V scope as of 4 days ago from the Ebay seller SMTZONE , who from accounts on this thread is a good online dealer.

I looking forward to seeing this scope and doing testing to see if any of the highlighted issues that have been seen are still in the the most upto date stock being sent now.

It would be VERY VERY handy indeed if a summery of  the testing details ,contained in this thread were in a sticky ,   issues  that have come to light, (Serial number groups affected with Fan issues , noise on  ch1 , ch2)   , the best methods found either to fix or return

Most would say that the information on this CRO held with in this thread is valuable to anyone looking to purchase this CRO combined with the Youtube released videos


Cheers
sheldon

Perth - Australia 

[pullin-gs]

It took me a few days to pick through this thread.
I found it worth the time and effort.
My OWON arrived yesterday intact and fully functional.
I spent about $520 for the newest SDS7102V with battery and bag.
It was an EBAY purchase.
Maybe I'll post a review on youtube if I have some free time.

Regarding the OP posting an updated video....he got rid of his scope long ago.
That said, most of the issues he outlined in his early posts have been edited as data came back that OWON had indeed directly addressed them in FW and HW updates.

[marmad]

Regarding the OP posting an updated video....he got rid of his scope long ago.
That said, most of the issues he outlined in his early posts have been edited as data came back that OWON had indeed directly addressed them in FW and HW updates.

Well... yes and no.  Yes, I did get rid of my Owon, but no, they haven't addressed most of the features I felt were lacking or problems I had with the scope. Specifically:

1) A way to mark, search easily, or just jump through long wave records.
2) Coarse/fine adjust of volts/div.
3) Split-screen window for FFT or zoom.
4) A SCPI command set or just improved data-exporting ability.
5) Show all measurements at once real-time (updated continuously).
6) Equivalent time sampling.
7) Linear interpolation of points or just the ability to turn off sin(x)/x.

As I mentioned on page 42 of this thread, IMO the top 4 are the most important features missing, the bottom 3 not so much.

Other problems I had with the SDS7102 were hardware features that weren't what they were advertised as (listed in the manual). I noticed that in the latest manual for the device (Mar. 2012 edition V1.4.5) they are STILL labelling these features the same as always - which indicates that they either changed the hardware (which I doubt) or are continuing to mislabel them. I know they are aware of the discrepancies since I had direct communication with Owon about these things for a few weeks, and they basically agreed with me:

1) Trigger Output. The manual says "Output trig signal synchronously". Could be more accurately labelled "Output refresh rate of the LCD" or something like that. It is NOT a true trigger output, by any normal definition.
2) Optically isolated Pass/Fail output is NOT optically isolated.

Edit: Of course, in a recap, I would forget to mention the biggest problem I had with the Owon  - the very slow waveform update rates. That has certainly not been fixed/changed in firmware. Still, all in all, I think the Owon is good value for money; although it would be a great value if they would have programmed a higher waveform update rate while using less sample memory. But if you absolutely need a reasonably cheap DSO right now - and you don't do much debugging of high-speed digital circuitry - than it might be your best choice.

[Teneyes]

1) A way to mark, search easily, or just jump through long wave records.
2) Coarse/fine adjust of volts/div.
3) Split-screen window for FFT or zoom.

Thank you Marmad for all your reviews.
I am thinking of buying the SDS7102, but holding off !!
I agree with your wish list but would reorder to 1) Split-screen, 2) add Marks 3) fine adjust.  These all seem to be Firmware updates.
The question is, If I buy the SDS7102, do I have any hope that a new Firmware will be released by Owon??  It  could be an update for all SDS models 6102, 7102 --> 9302.?   Realistically, my guess is, only if $$$ are there!  RF-loop. any rumours of firmware update?  It is good to see 3 EBay sellers (same address) still have a sale on for 7102 LAN, VGA & Battery .
Thanks again Marmad , RF-Loop and everyone for a good night school lesson in DSO's

PS the difference between Men and Boys are the Price of their Toys

[rf-loop]

The question is, If I buy the SDS7102, do I have any hope that a new Firmware will be released by Owon??  It  could be an update for all SDS models 6102, 7102 --> 9302.?   Realistically, my guess is, only if $$$ are there!  RF-loop. any rumours of firmware update?  It is good to see 3 EBay sellers (same address) still have a sale on for 7102 LAN, VGA & Battery .

Yes there is hope.

Owon have updated FW several times for fixing some critical bugs.
(zoomed) FFT cursors wrong frequency repaired some version ago.
Scan mode samplerate repaired/improved totally.
User can give file names when save, added some version ago.
Not exactly measured but feels like display/waveform handling have littlebit develobed faster.
(I can not proof becouse I have not old version for compare and before with old version I did not this measurement well enough)
Priority have been for make more and more stable software than hurry hurry add features without care about stability and then and drift into a deep spiral of more and new problems with a one point correction generates new problems. Owon has managed the errors of a serious and professional manner by ensuring that the priorities even if the pressure is also complementary to the properties. Fortunately, they have kept a cool head in this, although a too hasty change at some point did without proper justification. (Change in TFT backlight control). 

Here is Owon official internet side.   February 2012 they move official sides to hk, and soon they also open public download service for FW updates.

There is not any mind to update frequently with short time interval.  But sooner or later there come some updates. What they include - this we can see later. But I hope most high priority they keep for stability and reliability in first place. What you do, do it well.. Quantity does not replace quality. Reliability, accuracy, stability, after sales customer care ...  there is base key to go forvard. It is only road to real reputable name. There is no room for any big mistake.

My message to Owon: Do NOT hurry develop new features just becouse peoples push  pressure. Stay calm. Do first reliability, accuracy, stability etc... repair carefully bugs in good order in priority. Test well before publish any update.
(We have seen too much these "oops" updates from some other brands.)
With good priority list and well argumented do some developing to UI ergonomy and some features to FW.
Just, do less but better, do simple but good.
 
Of course every peoples have more or less wish list...real useful,.. useful... nice to have and so on...

Maybe something like Fine adjust V/div
More features to cursors. (also level and time tracking) and becouse knobs have free push button... please use it as it is possible to make UI more handy.
Now there is "snap shot once" all measurements just like in old Tektronix. Please make it so that there is selection for repeate mode if user want select "repeat" mode for this. Of course user then accept update rate go slow but user select... )
Time mark... even just some and posibilty to fast jump using button betwen these.
Slow and fast mode for horizontal position knob.
Posibility to highlight real sampled point or shut off sinx/x
Posibility to change trace colors. (in some cases this red is not good over black bacround, specially if use single dots, so it is nice if example it can change example to green if user want.
Force whole capture to exactly screen area in run mode.
oh and wishlist is not in priority order and it may be long.

[rf-loop]

Small test with Hantek and Owon.

I want capture video signal so that oscilloscope display one whole field.
Then I want stop capture (and last field is as single shot capture in memory for more detailed look and measurements.

Signal is normal one PAL video test signal where is "gray scale" (signal is color of course).

Oscilloscopes setting.
BW limit on (becouse all is under 20MHz)
Horizontal 2ms/div
100mV/div  (Amplitude adjusted for around <8div  (p-p <0.8V)
Memory 1M
Display dots.
1 channel in use. (becouse if two channel, Hantek drops to 500k memory and 10MSa/s and this can not accept for video)
Trigger: Video, Field (even and odd)
Video: PAL

First and most amazing was:

Waveforms per second.

Owon  SDS7102V  (unmodified V2.5.1)  16.6wfms/s
Hantek DSO5102B (unmodified HW1005 (e8) FW 120423)   1.2 - 1.3 wfms/s (measured only counting with eyes using watch)!

Hantek 20MSa/s 

   if Hantek set for two channel then memory is 512k for each channel and samplerate drops to 10MSa/s and update rate go agen littlebit more slow

In one channel mode it can stop and zoom so that every detail is just measurable in single video line. But just barely. In two channel mode there can not do measurements becouse undersampling.

Owon 25MSa/s
   if Owon set for two channel then still memory is 1M per channel and samplerate do not change, still 25MSa/s (of course)
   and update rate not markable difference. In single and two channel mode inside one video line there can do just barely all measurements but littlebit better than Hantek (due to samplerate difference and littlebit less noises)

But what happend if turn Owon to next step.


Other settings same. But memory 10M  and becouse no affect there can also use two channel and it do not affect to update rate markable and it do not affect at all to samplerate what is 250MSa/s for both channels. (2ms/div speed)
Now whole field to display (2ms/div)

Update rate around 7 wfms/s

Stop and zoom in to one video line details.
It can extremely good quality look every detail in one single line and example measure color burst very accurate,
And it can use two channels so that there can be example same video signal from different points on the display.

With Hantek there come also one other problem. All buttons and adjustments works very slow!
It is so slow that there is some difficult to do adjustments and settings.
In same situation Owon buttons and adjustments works just as always.

In this individual special but practical situation Owon can do work just fine specially if want also 2 channel...
Hantek is with one channel just barely borderline to fail this work but it can do just barely.
If need two channel. Hantek drops totally and fails in this work. It can not at all.
Owon do it very nice and accurate and can easy go to all detail with acceptable  fidelity laos for serius use.
PAL 4.43MHz color burst timing, level etc was piece of bisquit and all level and timing details can measure accurate.

Originally this whole video test come from one people who want find cheap scope what also can do this (single shot one whole field and then measure all details from single video line, and he ask if I can do real tests.

[EU1]

In Owon synchronization with a video signal is implemented in hardware (there are two BA7046, one per channel).
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/60/ I didn't found any HW on Hantek for extracting sync signals from a video signal. Thus may it be that Hantek uses a software synchronization? If so, 1.2-1.3 wfms/s is not a bad result

[electroguy]

here an update with my Owon scope's problems

bad stuck on green pixel :

i got update from my ebay seller and also from Owon's service,  1 bad pixel is NORMAL thing and is not a defect...
my seller said i need a bunch of them to be considered has a defect...

so people be aware of that  you may end up with a bunch of them 

bad probe:
for my probe defect, they said they will ship me a replacement ...

voidptr, did you check the vga output to see if the green pixel is there? Also, your photo seems like it is more than 1 pixel stuck on green. Can you take a clearer photo? it looks like 4 or more pixels are stuck on green, but that could be because of the low resolution photo. Do you have another photo?

[rf-loop]

here an update with my Owon scope's problems

bad stuck on green pixel :

i got update from my ebay seller and also from Owon's service,  1 bad pixel is NORMAL thing and is not a defect...
my seller said i need a bunch of them to be considered has a defect...

so people be aware of that  you may end up with a bunch of them 

bad probe:
for my probe defect, they said they will ship me a replacement ...

voidptr, did you check the vga output to see if the green pixel is there? Also, your photo seems like it is more than 1 pixel stuck on green. Can you take a clearer photo? it looks like 4 or more pixels are stuck on green, but that could be because of the low resolution photo. Do you have another photo?

voidptr:

In picture it seems that hot green pixel is also in main area of display.
Innolux A grade accept maximum 3 dark (dead) pixel out from main area.

Independent of your seller opinion, take good pictures, one where just whole dislpay is visible so that it can see pixel position  then some picture more close so that it clearly can see of there is single pixel or cluster. Also take one screen from scope to USB so that it can see pixel  is not there (it is not but it is good to proof and even better if you chek it also with external SVGA monitor. 

Send these pictures to Owon service (use these email address you find Owon HK sides.)
My opinion is that it is not acceptable on A grade TFT that there is stuck on pixel and specially in the main area of display.
In mainstream Owon opinion is over dealer opinion! So, ask Owon.

[rf-loop]

In Owon synchronization with a video signal is implemented in hardware (there are two BA7046, one per channel).
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/60/ I didn't found any HW on Hantek for extracting sync signals from a video signal. Thus may it be that Hantek uses a software synchronization? If so, 1.2-1.3 wfms/s is not a bad result

It can see that Hantek sync to standard video signal is sometimes difficult to sync.
Owon sync feels lot of more reliable.

But this waveform update rate is not related to only video.

100kHz square wave 1Vp-p
scope 2us/div
1 channel use (becouse Hantek can not 1M with two channels and I want both scopes have same settings for compare apples to apples)
1M memory selection (Hantek have in real 800k but it is hantek math. 800 = 1M)
display dots
normal acquire

Hantek DSO5102B  (1005 e8,  FW120423)  around 2 waveform/sec  Calculated with watch and counting from screen with eye.


Owon SDS7102V (1203  and  2.5.1) around 35 waveform/sec  Measured using Owon "trig" (1) out signal with other oscilloscope.

Owon with 10M memory, all others same. Around 25 waveform/s
From 1k to 1M (with this speed) it is around 35.

Hantek is totally different if use 4k short memory.
In this, and only this, it is lot of faster. There come more waveform updates than screen updates In this case it beats Owon very clearly. Around five to ten times faster (max).

example 5ns/div (1k - 10M memory) one channel use Owon have around 40 waveforms/s
and same with 2 channel use, around 32.
39 (+-0.5) waveforms seems some kind of maximum. (measured with other oscilloscope using trig out interval measurement)  (hantek DPO like update rate have discussed in other thread)

Hantek is fast ONLY with 4k memory.
With other settings and 40k memory it is still ok and not bad.
But with 500k and 1M settings it is really slow if look waveforms updating speed.
I have no idea what happend there.


(1) it is not real trig out as we can find example in Tektronix professional analog oscilloscopes.
But it is enough to calculate update rate becouse Owon is series prosessing conventional DSO.

Of course then if use measurements, persistence, menu open, etc.. they slow scope. Also Hantek.
But Owon do not never go to this speed what can clearly calculate with watch and counting with eyes.
(Of course if horizontal speed is limiting then of course. Everyone know if 100ms/div and there are 20 divs in full capture it takes 2 second + dead time. It is same for Rohde&Schwartz RTO and cheapest toy scope.

It is also good to rememeber what means "up to" or maximum as peoples read manufacturers ads.
Measured truth is not always same as image what we may imagine after reading ads.

[marmad]

But this waveform update rate is not related to only video.

Really? I'm fairly sure this has all been discussed here before - but:

Owon SDS7102V (1203  and  2.5.1) around 35 waveform/sec  Measured using Owon "trig" (1) out signal with other oscilloscope.
Owon with 10M memory, all others same. Around 25 waveform/s
From 1k to 1M (with this speed) it is around 35.

Either Owon has rewritten their firmware drastically since I had the scope - which seems unlikely - or this is incorrect. It is not only higher than what I measured - it is higher than what Owon themselves told me in emails that their waveform update rates were. So I'm not sure I can believe your figures, but regardless, these are STILL slow rates at LOW memory settings.

Hantek is totally different if use 4k short memory.
In this, and only this, it is lot of faster. There come more waveform updates than screen updates In this case it beats Owon very clearly. Around five to ten times faster (max).

Yes, again, in case you missed it, THIS IS THE POINT! The Owon does a 'reasonable' amount of wfrm/s if using deep memory - but it SUCKS at low memory settings - which makes it a major pain in the ass when trying to track down intermittant glitches. I did numerous tests with the Owon vs the Hantek in this regard, and on average, the Owon was 10x slower (which equates to HOURS of time) when looking for glitches. The Owon is NOT a good scope for debugging high-speed digital circuitry.


I see now that I need to go back and re-edit my original post in this thread to accurately reflect my final conclusions about the Owon SDS7102, because this thread is getting to be a mess. What I will say is basically this:

1) The Owon's hardware is very good. It appears to be both well-designed and built - and you get good value for money: large screen, battery option, decent front-end and good ADC/sampling engine.

2) The Owon's firmware sucks. There is no other way to put it. The only good thing you can say about it is that it is stable. In every other respect, from screen font, to color choices, to interface design, to features included, to usage of the nice hardware, to implementation of sampling/waveform updates - it is poorly done. It's a pity that they couldn't hire a team that was any good (like the hardware team) to write it. I could, without doubt, write better firmware myself.

[rf-loop]

Yes, again, in case you missed it, THIS IS THE POINT! The Owon does a 'reasonable' amount of wfrm/s if using deep memory - but it SUCKS at low memory settings - which makes it a major pain in the ass when trying to track down intermittant glitches. I did numerous tests with the Owon vs the Hantek in this regard, and on average, the Owon was 10x slower (which equates to HOURS of time) when looking for glitches. The Owon is NOT a good scope for debugging high-speed digital circuitry.

No, I have not missed this at all. This I have also told in last message so that there clearly read Hantek is lot of faster when use 4k memory. Also everyone know what 4k memory do for samplerate as go for lower horizontal speeds.

In this clitch hunting Hantek beats Owon just 10-1. But nearly only in this. And then, if really need clitch hunting with serious work. I'm not sure Hantek is right tool. But yes, it can do it some low level and in this Owon is out. Owon IS conventional series processing DSO and in this it is quite good. It have not any parallel processing capability but Hantek have, littlebit.


Well, if I tell Owon waveform rate and you do not believe it is not my problem.
 
I have measured it and opponent is good and proof I'm wrong. As long as someone show I'm wrong I stay behind my data what I have measured. With settings I have told I have measured Owon trig out signal period and measured period was 25.35ms. Measurement done with well calibrated Tektronix 2465ADM

Other measurements with Hantek.
(Menu off except if other info)
4us/div  40k mem 1Ch
signal 500kHz
waves/s 33

500k memory
waves 6

1M memory
waves 3.5

4k memory
waves 255 and with menu ON around 280

change horiz speed
200ns/div
4k mem
waves 150
20ns
waves 190
8ns
waves 135
4ns
waves 135

And just as before Owon:
example 5ns/div (1k - 10M memory) one channel use Owon have around 40 waveforms/s
and same with 2 channel use, around 32.

Maximum what I find was around 280 but lck of time I did not go all posible settings combinations.
Maximum what I have find from Owon is around 40. 
And it is good to note that Owon keeps well its speed from 1k to 10M memory.
But this Hantek max is available only with narrow scale of settings and only with 4k and then it good to note also what it mean in samplerates.

40k Hantek is not at all so fast.
100k - 10M it loose totally. In samplerate and in waveforms update rate.

with and only 4k Hantek is around 4 - 7 times faster in waveforms update rate or something like this.

[marmad]

Well, if I tell Owon waveform rate and you do not believe it is not my problem.

Of course not - and it's not my problem if you say something different than Owon. I can only judge by my long email exchange with Owon, in which I asked the following:

"With Trigger Out, I always see output in the range of ~1 – 25Hz only, which would tend to indicate 1 – 25 waveform updates per second – or a ‘blind’ time, for example, at 200ns/div, of 99.99%.
Can you please let me know if I am incorrect and the waveform update rate for the Owon SDS7102 is faster than this?"

Owon responded:

"The waveform updated rate you mention is correct, unlike DS1052E (LCD display is 320*234), ours is 800*600 pixels, so there is more work for DSO to handle with, which result in updated rate is lower."

Of course, perhaps the hardware has been significantly changed or the firmware has been heavily rewritten in the last 8 months, but... hmm.. seems to me that they have other things which are more important than getting the wfrm/s rate pushed up from 25 to a whopping 35.

In this clitch hunting Hantek beats Owon just 10-1. But nearly only in this. And then, if really need clitch hunting with serious work. I'm not sure Hantek is right tool. But yes, it can do it some low level and in this Owon is out. Owon IS conventional series processing DSO and in this it is quite good. It have not any parallel processing capability but Hantek have, littlebit.

I never said that Hantek is necessarily the best tool either - I only made the comparison because YOU did first in your post - after I said the Owon's wfrm/s update rates were slow in my message from the previous page.


Rf-loop, seriously though... dude, this is getting kind of silly.  Every time I come back on this thread (which I started to review a scope I bought) to mention some of what I believe to be the negative aspects of the Owon, you feel compelled to come back and argue against me (about a scope you sell).

Now I know that since I did the three YouTube video reviews of this scope, I have helped Owon sell hundreds (if not thousands) of units, but with all due respect, this is kind of annoying here. Perhaps you need to start your own thread where you sing the praises of Owon and their scopes?

[rf-loop]

Maybe you have missed this other test (page 38-39)

This is directly from TFT surface, not from "trig" out. And also this give same kind of result.

With two totally different methods... from trig out and from visible TFT surface so that they are real displayed captures.

If some one in Owon answer to you he/she just did not know about what you are talking or did not know or you talked just different things. So, maybe it is better first test and measure and then give opinions.  Measured real data and these my tests are repeatable where ever and what time ever as long as devices under tst are same. This is displayed waveforms update rate in real life.

But, if talk about "trig" out...  due to delay related to real trig point... my opinion is that it is not usefully useable even 1/25s.

Also, waveform update rate drops some amount if using menu, connect dots etc.

Here repeated this one test pic. (and yes, with same method I have tested also with Hantek)

And about Owon - Hantek. Both oscilloscopes I have argumented many ways to good in this price class. If Owon is good or bad. Only truth is important to me, and just same for Hantek or example Rigol.
In professional work use and hobby use,  I use Tektronix, Agilent and R&S equipments and recommend them for serious use (nearly) without exeption.

[marmad]

If Owon is good or bad. Only truth is important to me, and just same for Hantek or example Rigol.

Sorry, but MANY of the things you've posted in this thread are NOT the 'truth' - they are your own subjective opinion (what features are important to have, how well or quickly Owon is handling firmware updates, etc, etc, etc) - I could make a long list. And opinion becomes even less objective - and less trustworthy - when there is a financial arrangement involved.  Since you seem to disagree with most of the conclusions I've come to regarding my Review of Owon SDS7102 (this thread) - I suggest you do your own review and thread - which would better reflect your 'truths'.

Honestly, I'm finding more and more co-opting of the reviews of the Owon I did by people with a financial interest at stake (e.g. websites selling the Owon with my videos embedded; people involved financially with the company 'debating' in this thread, etc) and I'm getting rather tired of it. I have half a mind to blow up this thread very soon.

[rf-loop]

Sorry but real measurements give real data.

[marmad]

Sorry but real measurements give real data.

I already stated that 25 or 35 wfrm/s is irrelevant to me; either one is too slow with 1k (or even 10k) memory depth - imo, it just highlights poor firmware design. But we're clearly not talking about the same thing anymore - that seems to have ended a few posts ago.

[pullin-gs]

marmad,

Why did you make your SDS7102 reviews on youtube private?
That reminds me of the school kid who takes his ball home when things dont go his way.

P