REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[IanB]

If afraid Sin(x)/x it is good to stay away from example Rigol what have been wrong implemented Sinx/x and it is better call it as some kind of "smooth".

What is wrong with sin(x)/x on a Rigol and how much practical importance does this have? Is there an illustration of the fault somewhere?

[marmad]

"Repetitive" (some times called littlebit loosy as Equal-Time) mode is not very interesting feature in scope what have 1GSa/s (or 500MSa/s) what is classified as 100MHz oscilloscope.  In history it was meaningfull. Example in 100MHz oscilloscope what have 10MSa/s maximum samplerate. Of course it need repetitive sampling for continuous signals, but this kind of oscilloscope is only <2-4MHz oscilloscope if talking single shot)  Mostly but not always this Egu-Time is more like "feature of the ad men". 
If look 100MHz oscilloscope what have 1GSa/s samplerate it is nearly so that there is misunderstooding if want this repetitive sampling mode. Yes in some rare cases if it is well done it may give something but veru marginal. Sometimes it make situation only more bad.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here, but equivalent time sampling is hardly a 'feature of the ad men' - it's a well-known sampling technique for repetitive signals (http://www.cbtricks.com/miscellaneous/tech_publications/scope/sampling.pdf) - and with ever-rising clock speeds on MCUs, etc, it's very handy to have sometimes when you don't have a high bandwidth real-time scope.  When I had the Rigol DS1052E, I used the ETS a few times for checking ~500MHz clock signals - and it worked fine.

Windowed zoom... hmm nice for play, but not really needes for real working and just becouse this not windoved zoom is implemented so that it is very fast use.

Yes, most 'features' are not really needed for basic work - they just make basic work a lot easier.  Windowed zoom would help a HUGE amount for keeping track of your position when moving through records (see below).

In stop mode it is easy to go around long capture, just zoom out, horz position shift and zoom in. But if there is settable mark points and posibility to jump marks..    of course there is many things what are nice.

It's 'reasonably' easy to move around - it's just not easy to keep track of your location or to find events in a 10Mpt record - in fact, it's a big pain in the ass - as I think anyone who has used this scope and tried to do can testify.

[alm]

What is wrong with sin(x)/x on a Rigol and how much practical importance does this have? Is there an illustration of the fault somewhere?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/rigol-ds1000e-series-possible-errorfail-in-sin(x)x-interpolation/

I don't quite understand what you're saying here, but equivalent time sampling is hardly a 'feature of the ad men' - it's a well-known sampling technique for repetitive signals (http://www.cbtricks.com/miscellaneous/tech_publications/scope/sampling.pdf) - and with ever-rising clock speeds on MCUs, etc, it's very handy to have sometimes when you don't have a high bandwidth real-time scope.  When I had the Rigol DS1052E, I used the ETS a few times for checking ~500MHz clock signals - and it worked fine.

It's a fine strategy, all the big brands use it to achieve high bandwidths on scopes only sampling in the kS/s range, assuming you have the front-end bandwidth to match and design the trigger circuit so the trigger noise is low enough to make the fast equivalent sampling rate meaningful.

I guess you could use it to look for the presence of 500 MHz signal on a 50 MHz scope, but since amplitude accuracy and signal fidelity are going to be crap anyway, wouldn't a cheap 1+GHz frequency counter achieve the same? A more accurate measure of amplitude could be achieved with a cheap RF diode detector probe.

[marmad]

I guess you could use it to look for the presence of 500 MHz signal on a 50 MHz scope, but since amplitude accuracy and signal fidelity are going to be crap anyway, wouldn't a cheap 1+GHz frequency counter achieve the same? A more accurate measure of amplitude could be achieved with a cheap RF diode detector probe.

As I wrote, it's handy to have it sometimes, but it's not something that couldn't be done better with another piece of equipment (if you happened to have that piece of equipment laying around). Just like the FFT feature - or many features, when you come to think about it.

Anyway, in my list of 7 features I wouldn't mind seeing implemented in Owon's firmware, it was the 3rd from the bottom - and in fact, I only really care about the top 4 - if Owon could implement those I would forget the other three.

[EU1]

Here you can find RuiFeng

tiny datasheet pdf here

Functionally it is afaik same as common known ADC08D500.
Some specs just littlebit better in original but...
Price difference may be ... just more than big.

Package is nearly same. (not exactly direct pin-pin becouse RuiFeng have added some N.C. pins to corners.

Color: Chip is black.

Thanks a lot. This is exactly what I searched for.

[testingguy]

Just got my 7102 via Saelig. S/N 71021209xxx, FW 2.5.1  Nice surprise: they included the VGA port option at no charge. Maybe all sellers are doing this now? $429 out the door seems like a steal to me.

With the thoroughness of the video review on this scope and all the posts it was nice to know what to expect. So far no surprises, working great. My trusty old Tek 2236 now has competition on the bench...

Chris

[testingguy]

Been trying to get the SDS1702 connected to a Win7 workstation via the OWON PC program. Consistently timing out when I try to "Get Data." Am waiting for reply from OWON ts but was hoping someone here has had LAN connectivity success.

Chris B.

[rf-loop]

Been trying to get the SDS1702 connected to a Win7 workstation via the OWON PC program. Consistently timing out when I try to "Get Data." Am waiting for reply from OWON ts but was hoping someone here has had LAN connectivity success.

Chris B.

Maybe here is something.

If it is assumed that the LAN port itself is ok in scope there is your system LAN settings and this may need also that you set oscilloscope LAN settings. Your scope have newest user manual where is better LAN settings than first LAN version user manual. Version Mar 2012 you find here.

[kaz911]

Been trying to get the SDS1702 connected to a Win7 workstation via the OWON PC program. Consistently timing out when I try to "Get Data." Am waiting for reply from OWON ts but was hoping someone here has had LAN connectivity success.

Chris B.

I had same problem with my 8202 - and I think if you read about the PHYS address in the link provided above - you will be able to get it to work.

[testingguy]

Thanks guys, great help and nice to get the latest manual. Not sure why OWON is not hosting it on their own site yet (as of few days ago). 

The LAN connection is now working.  IP addresses were not matched correctly between workstn and DSO. 

Thanks again!

[aghp]

Not sure why OWON is not hosting it on their own site yet (as of few days ago). 

Maybe you are looking wrong Owon site.

Owon have changed!  Also new MAR 2012 user manual tell it wrong.
(newest paper manual they have correct it by label over old address)

Time ago Owon Head Quarter send information letter to distributors including also we, that  Owon official internet address and email addresses have changed!



After 22.Feb.2012

Owon official internet address:

 http://www.owon.com.hk/


There are also downloadables.


After this day, every single oscilloscope what we have sell include this information note. (if we have not suddenly forget this note sheet from package)


(these sites may still be somehow under construction and and some inrmation may be missed etc)

-aghp

[testingguy]

Maybe you are looking wrong Owon site.

Yes you are right, I was looking at the old .cn site. Thanks again for your help.

Chris B.

[Tranc3r]

Hey just got the Owon SDS7102V with v2.5.1 firmware.

I have a 40khz square pulse fed into CH1.  The 40khz is from an Arduino Uno microcontroller.
When looking at the signal on the oscilloscope, it seems like there is small noise on the peaks and the transition points, is overshooting a bit.
Is this normal? At my school's lab, they have Tektronix TDS2002, but I did not see any of these kinds of imperfections on their oscilloscope.
Seeing more is better?

And about the third picture, it seems like I have a 1MHz signal on the skin of my hand, haha.  Where is that from?

[0xdeadbeef]

Compensate your probes...

[aghp]

Tektronix have 60MHz BW and Owon have labeled by 100MHz but in practice it have over 200MHz BW and well under 2ns risetime.

Your Tektronix is maybe just nearly blind for this.

Also there are many posibilities to produce this overshoot in measuring system itself.  Without further deep tests it can not also know if signal matching from source via probe is matched. With fast rising edges it is important to use high frequency practices even if square base frequany is low. Minimum it need you do not use probe GND wire. It need GND directly to tip head using some adapter or minimum this poor "spring" what arrive with probe.
In oscilloscope itself there is not this overshoot  if looking frequency response flatness curve but it can easy produce in signal pathway from device under test to oscilloscope. Fast rising edges need perfect matched signal road, more perfect more fast rising. But now you have lot of faster oscilloscope what is this named Tektronix and you can see more these things also more what are coming from "ringing" proping.
 First of all. With fast edges, do NOT use probe normal GND wire if you want do more perfect measurements.
For even more perfect measurements it sometimes need use other method than normal probe what come with oscilloscope. This probe is not bad but it have its limits with higher frequencies (with fast rising/falling signals)
Also overshoot is normal.

Look these pictures
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~phylabs/bsc/Supplementary/Lab1/xyz_scopes.pdf
Specially side 37.

Then: this Tektronix oscilloscope have only 2.5k memory.
What is samplerate for this your measurement with this tektronix?
(I can see in picture you have used 10k memory and you get 200MSa/s
I do not know what is Tektronix samplerate for same horizontal speed using 2.5k memory but I suppose it is 50MSa/s.)

With 50MSa/s Nyquist "wall" is 25MHz. In this case it is not 60MHz oscilloscope. With this samplerate in use and with Tek/Hp simplified thumb rules it is as  3 - 10MHz realtime oscilloscope.  Now if it see this fast rising signal it produce lot of aliasing and with square wave it can see specially in corners. (wobbling corners) 

Final note. Probe is good antenna for pick up many many RF signals and noises  from enviroment.

It can use as EMI detector antenna if connect probe GND wire to tip. it is nice loop antenna. With this antenna you can go Owon backside or near your laptop power adapter...

[aghp]

Compensate your probes...

In picture there is 2us/div and overhoot peak is more like <100ns-200ns  than thousend time slower.
Probe calibration is LF compensation. But also of course it need be well adjusted.

(some nice Agilent and Tektronix probes have also compensation (adjustment) for fast edge response but they are not normally user available (inside probe head) and adjusting these need also equipments for adjusting. It can not do with normal "probe adjust" signal from scope front panel.)

Probe cal signal is 1kHz slow rising square. With this signal can not do, or even see edge response or make this kind of adjustments. (and also these probes have not these adjustments) User adjust is just low frequency compensation. (aka "probe calibration" )

Some good reading about probes(Tektronix)

[EU1]

I've received a brand new SDS7102 today and I'm totally disappointed...
Serial number is SDS71021209***, FW 2.5.1.
At first three minor issues:
1. Through a hole on the bottom I've seen a cheap NEC relay, the same model which was used on oldest HW. I didn't disassembled the oscilloscope, so I don't know are other relays also NEC.
2. There is some noise on VGA signal. Not too hight.
3. Weak vibration from fan.

But the real problem is a coupling selection of CH1. It seems that the optocoupler always stays in semi-opened state.
I've recorded a video with both probes connected to "Probe Comp" output:
As you can see the CH2 works good, but AC/DC coupling mode on CH1 doesn't work correctly.

The video was recorded few hours ago. Now the waveform looks good in DC mode, but still does not switches to AC mode correctly (I've made self calibration several times, maybe this may be a reson why in DC everything is fine).

But... sometimes (very rarely) it switches to AC and shows a correct waveform. If it was switched to AC successfully, a waveform looks fine after any manipulations with V/div or any other controls and even after self calibration. But when I switch it from AC to DC and then from DC to AC, the problem appears again.

It is realy confusing. Looks like a broken relay, but I think that there is an optocoupler, because I hear no "click" when switching between AC/DC modes on CH2 which works fine.

[rf-loop]

AC/DC is not mechanical relay.

NEC relay what you see through bottom hole near right down corner is nothing to do with CH1 and CH 2 channels signal pathway. This relay what you see can be normal relay, And also, what is real problem with this NEC relay. Nothing. Why it is not problem in Hantek or Rigol but if it is inside Owon and out from primary signal pathway it is just now problem?
Fujitsu relay is just littlebit better than this NEC model. Difference is not big. It not any problem if this NEC is just used also later in new HW version - just becouse it is not problem.
I'm very interesting to see real data about "problem" with NEC relays. Some real data, where.

It was only opinion that Fujitsu relay is littlebit better but it was just mutua. Example becouse this datasheet really read that it is for RF purposes. But I have not see any true measured data so that can compare what is exactly difference if only variable is this relay.

Looking trough this hole you can not see these CH1 and CH2 band  relays. These band relays are under front end RF shields and they are solder closed.

If you think your oscilloscope is defect just call seller and if seller do nothing call Owon service.
(if there is real warranty fail issue (and specially if situation is "arrived as fault" you may get Owon fly ticket... (courier) and they exchange it or repair it)

FAN: small vibration is possible but if it keep bad noise or if vibration is bad then it is problem.
If it is damaged factoru oscilloscope assembling phase it later may go more bad becouse bad unbalance very soon destroy sleeve bearings.
With some co-work with some other person also I have talked to Owon factory that they need change handling routines related to FAN. One wrong handling when assembly oscilloscope and FAN is garbage. If fan example drops from hand to floor... never assemble it. It must put to garbage collection.

It is very pity there are lot of resellers who sell these just as nice boxes. They do not check anything, just only buy in and sell without any work. Some sellers even do not know what is oscilloscope. It is only nice carton box what have some price.

If you have problem, EEVblog do not repair it. Contact  first seller and if not real help, contact Owon (remember there is still delays due to Qing ming festival) And use these addresses what you find Owon HK sides or call to Owon service phone.

But also I suspect some issue in using... for close all other posibilities out and proof that there is real problem in channels.. you can PM me and I may help by giving exact simply orders you follow for tiny tests.
I can not primise immediate "as fireman" answers but with my own timetable.

[EU1]

I've ordered it to AideTech to USA address and then it was shipped to Ukraine. AideTech stated "14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping".
Shipping to Ukraine took more than 14 days, so I cannot return it back to seller .
I've contacted OWON support, see what they offer.

[EU1]

Also a distance from me to the seller is about 15000km, so the shipping may be too expensive and there may be I have to pay customs duty when they send it back to me.

[marmad]

@EU1 - I don't know about customs in the Ukraine, but everywhere in the West: when you send an item for repair (to be returned after) with the necessary paperwork, there are never any custom duties for the return.  I'm pretty sure the rules would be the same there.

Maybe you got the scope sent via the US to avoid customs duty when you imported it, but the Ukrainian customs won't know how you got it into the country (or if you bought it in Ukraine) when you are sending it out for repair and return.

[lavo-1]

Also a distance from me to the seller is about 15000km, so the shipping may be too expensive and there may be I have to pay customs duty when they send it back to me.

I cant understand why you purchased from a seller so far away from you when you have dealers closer.

A eev member "aghp" is a Owon dealer based in Finland and he tests all Owon scopes before shipment to the customer, so you can be sure the product is A1 when received.
Also he is a pleasure to deal with and will answer any question you may have with the product.

I wish you the best of luck with getting your scope returned as the Owon SDS scopes are great value and an excellent product just a shame you purchased a faulty one.

[king2]

Hello!

I live in Russia and I have bought SDS8202 #SDS82821149*** in middle of February. After a week of lazy using I niticed very loud noise inside (FAN noise). I have tested it about CH1 noise - and found it. So I have written to OWON email from new (.hk) site.
Then I have written again..
Then again..

So, I have no answer from OWON for a month. Not even "this is your problem, go away". Just nothing.

I defenitely don't want to send oscilloscope so far wawy, because it means two or three monthes without it.
What should I do to get new FAN and plastic detail to repair to be sent to me via post mail (as it was with another people here)?

Is email "info -at -owon.com.hk" working?

Thanks in advance!

[aghp]

In China just have end Qingming festival time and I think yesterday they have started come back to working?

with this email address normally they answer inside 24 - 48hour.

Small posibility is that "some" firewall  stop your email or receiver mailbox is filtering it to garbage.
Also look that your computer do not have any kind of virus infection what may add something... Also check that your character code settings are ok. (UTF-8 is e mostly ok).

If you still have problem to contact Owon I can try help you, first I can try forward your message to Owon.

But, first. If I buy bicycle and then there is some problem. First I contact seller, not factory who have made it. Your seller have contact to Owon and seller can also help you or least try help?

[EU1]

Also a distance from me to the seller is about 15000km, so the shipping may be too expensive and there may be I have to pay customs duty when they send it back to me.

I cant understand why you purchased from a seller so far away from you when you have dealers closer.

A eev member "aghp" is a Owon dealer based in Finland and he tests all Owon scopes before shipment to the customer, so you can be sure the product is A1 when received.
Also he is a pleasure to deal with and will answer any question you may have with the product.

I wish you the best of luck with getting your scope returned as the Owon SDS scopes are great value and an excellent product just a shame you purchased a faulty one.

Because a simplest way to buy this model is order it from USA. There are many aspects - shipment, customs clearance, etc .