Read this before buying from Welectron

[btspce]

I have been trying to get a replacement for my EEVblog multimeter since 15 May of this year. 3 Month to send a replacement that they clearly has had in stock is a bit long don't you think?     

Below is the email exchange.

2019-05-15

Code: [Select]

Dear Sir or Madam,
We refer to your order xxxxx from 12.04.2019.

We have been informed by Kane Test that some of the shipped EVBlog 121GW multimeters have an issue. This can result in a loss of calibration data after a firmware update. Unfortunately, this issue cannot be resolved by the customer.

Please check if your 121GW has a serial number in the range of 190106323 .. 190106450.
If this is the case:
- Do NOT attempt to update the firmware on your 121GW.
- Do NOT yet send the device back to us. We will arrange an exchange once we receive new stock from Kane Test in about 3-4 weeks.
- Please let us know the serial number of your device, and if you agree in exchanging your affected 121GW with a new device.

If your 121GW is not in the noted serial number range, you do not need to worry and can ignore this e-mail.

Thank you for your cooperation!

Best regards,
Your Welectron Team
2019-05-15

Code: [Select]

Hello
Serial number of our 121GW is 1901063xx so it seems to be affected by this.
2019-05-20

Code: [Select]

Thank you for the message.

We registered your device for the replacement program. You will receive further information once we get new 121GW from the manufacturer with the issue fixed.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if there are any further questions.

Best regards,

Welectron

2019-07-02

Code: [Select]

Hello
How is it going with the replacement of this multimeter ? ETA ?
2019-07-05

Code: [Select]

Hello
How is it going with the replacement of this multimeter ? ETA ?
2019-07-09

Code: [Select]

Hello
How is it going with the replacement of the EEVBlog multimeter ? ETA ? [Ticket#61114xxx]
Welectron registered my device for the replacement program and that was 6 weeks ago.

2019-07-10

Code: [Select]

Thank you for the message and your patience.

You will hear from us this week.

Best regards,

Welectron
2019-07-19

Code: [Select]

Hello
I didnt hear from welectron last week and still nothing about the EEVblog replacement multimeter.
2019-07-26

Code: [Select]

Hello
"You will hear from us this week" was 2 weeks ago and noone contacted me. Still no information regarding the replacement multimeter??? You have them in stock so what is the problem?
2019-07-26

Code: [Select]

Thank you for the message.

We are working on it, sorry for the delay due to a very high inquiry and order volume due to the Pi 4 launch. You have a working multimeter in the meantime, we will arrange the exchange ASAP.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if there are any further questions.

Best regards,

Welectron
2019-07-26

Code: [Select]

Thanks for the info !
2019-08-21

Code: [Select]

Any news on the replacement multimeter ?

Would like to do the firmware upgrade as it fixes quite a few bugs relating to logging but cant on the one I have.
Have the replacement been shipped ?
2019-09-05

Code: [Select]

This has to be one of the worst customer support experiences ever!
What is the holdup with the replacement multimeter ?
Even if you are busy with the Pi 4 launch you can't have been so busy for the past 3 and a half month that you can't take 10 minutes to send out a replacement multimeter that you clearly have in stock ? You didn't even reply to my last email from 21 aug. I was supposed to get a replacement more than three month ago in your first email sent out.

There are multiple bugs in the current firmware that has been fixed in a later firmware that I can't install because I'm waiting on the replacement from Welectron.
Where is it ??? My company intended to order more from Welectron but that is not happening now.


[Chriss]

Good to know this.
But wait. If I understand correctly the calibration problem will happen cos a bad firmware version update.
If this is the case, why to return the dmm?
Why not only fix the buggy firmware and release a fixed version to the customer?

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk

[btspce]

There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.

[Potato]

Thanks for the warning.

[Fungus]

There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.

Is there no workaround, eg. a way to save/restore the calibration during upgrades?

[Kean]

There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.

Is there no workaround, eg. a way to save/restore the calibration during upgrades?

There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware.  Considering this only affects 100 or so units, I can understand the preference for a "recall" over the support hassles of some one-off "calibration fix-up firmware".

Back to the topic, I presume Welectron have been promised a batch of replacement devices to cover the "recall" but are still waiting on that, and are lacking information on when they will be available.  I can also somewhat understand them not wanting to use their saleable stock for replacements when there may be 100 or so units involved.  It is frustrating, but you do have a near fully functional meter.  They very likely have a different (expedited) process to handle a one-off DOA unit.

[Fungus]

There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware.

No way to convert it?

[Kean]

There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware.

No way to convert it?

This supposedly only affected a reasonably small batch so I expect they wouldn't want to expend much effort on a one-off conversion process that customers would very likely also require further support to correctly use.
Swap out the meters, and when the bad batch come back they just reflash the latest firmware and re-do the full calibration.  Quite pragmatic.

[Fungus]

Swap out the meters, and when the bad batch come back they just reflash the latest firmware and re-do the full calibration.  Quite pragmatic.

Maybe Brymen requires them to send all the meters to the factory simultaneously in a big box for reflashing/recalibration and return to users. If you send yours in now you'll just be waiting around with no meter until "batch day" arrives.

Who knows? Not me, but I have a feeling the phrase "between a rock and a hard place" will be applicable.

I'm sure Welectron is reading this... maybe a clarification should be given.

[2N3055]

I'm really sorry to hear you have problems. I personally had only best experience with them. I understand your frustration.

To cut on the speculations whether Marco reads this and what is going on, I sent an E-mail to Welectron mentioning this post and kindly asked him to join in to the discussion.

We'll see how it goes. It would be nice for you if this gets sorted out.

Regards,

Sinisa

[ebastler]

I wonder what "the manufacturer" has to say about this? 

Obviously Welectron's communication leaves a lot to be desired in the case you describe. But their ability to actually fix this for you depends entirely on getting adequate support from the manufacturer. Have replacement multimeters ever been shipped to the vendors?

@Dave, are you involved in this? Any update or background?

[Muttley Snickers]

Maybe Brymen....(edit)

The meter in question is a 121GW from Kane Test/ UEI, the BM235 was from Brymen.

[Potato]

Posters above have given a range of reasons why Welectron might prefer to not fulfill this replacement from standard stock. However, this is not the concern of a customer with a faulty unit. The unit is defective and Welectron have an obligation to repair or replace.

This is a very poor show on the part of Welectron and a potential breach of EU consumer regulations.

[btspce]

I got a pm from Welectron to remove names in our email correspondence so that has now been edited out above. Sadly still no explanation.

Seems that noone has gotten their replacement yet. Atleast customers of Welectron.
Since starting this thread I got pm's from other owners that are still waiting for their replacement aswell.

[btspce]

Welectron please give us an explanation of what is taking this long. Thats the least you can do. And it can't still be the Pi4 launch.

I don't want to bash Welectron but this is a bit ridiculous.
Are you waiting on a special batch dedicated for these replacements? ETA was 3-4 weeks nearly 4 months ago. If so why is it taking 4 months?
Are you waiting for a new batch that also incorporates the pcb thickness fix or possibly some other issue ?

@Dave. What is happening regarding this? Can you get things moving? It's after all your partner in EU.

[rodpp]

In the EU can't you contact the manufacturer directly? Here in Brazil contacting the manufacturer is the norm in such cases.

I don't know that seller, but according with your messages I wouldn't expect much from them if they are responsible for the replacement (and not the manufacturer). They having the item in stock and not replacing your defective unit, shows to me that they care more with themselves (and/or with the manufacturer) than with the customer.

The customer having to wait months to a replacement is not reasonable. The seller having the same product available in stock and yet not replacing the unit, is much worse.

Probably Dave can help you with this, as the meter has her brand in it.

[Chriss]

I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.

For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.

So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.

For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk

[tautech]

Anyone had the sense to 'Report to Moderator' so Dave gets to see all this ? .....Done !

[Fungus]

I don't know that seller, but according with your messages I wouldn't expect much from them if they are responsible for the replacement (and not the manufacturer). They having the item in stock and not replacing your defective unit, shows to me that they care more with themselves (and/or with the manufacturer) than with the customer.

If this was a single defective meter then you'd be right, but it might not be that simple.

Welectron is a middle man. If the manufacturer is giving Welectron the runaround and/or not accepting these meters for direct replacement then Welectron could lose an awful lot of money on this. These aren't cheap meters and there's a whole batch of them.

I'm sure Welectron is working on a solution.

[Fungus]

I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.

For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.

So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.

For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.

This, too.

In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.

In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.

[Fungus]

Anyone had the sense to 'Report to Moderator' so Dave gets to see all this ? .....Done !

Maybe he knows what's going on at the factory.

Who writes this firmware? They're the real responsibles... 

[rodpp]

The seller probably is "innocent" regarding the causes of this problem. But it is responsible for the quality of the products sold. In Brazilian law both, the seller and the manufacturer, are held responsible. Normally the manufacturer is contacted first here, but is seems that in other countries it is normal contacting the seller first.

To the customer, who caused the issue (manufacturer, programmer or anyone else) does not matter. It paid for a working product and must have it working as specified in the expected lifetime.

And 4 months to replace a multimeter is not acceptable.

[maub]

I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.

For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.

So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.

For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.

This, too.

In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.

In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.

Actually, "EU law [...] stipulates that [the seller] must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. "

More details on the Official website of the European Union at https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

[maub]

According to Dave Jones only 21 units are affected:

This only affected 21 units, and only units shipped by Welectron.
UEi did a new version of firmware and shipped that with units to Welectron (who direct order from UEi, they don't buy from me), unfortunately there was a calibration goof of some sort and those units had to be recalled and units replaced (or re-calibrated, but quicker to replace in this instance for those customers).
Everything is fixed now and all new units from Welectron will ship with the latest 2.00 firmware and problem solved.
So there should not be any meters left in the wild that cannot be upgraded in future, so no need for any advice on the firmware page.

I am one of the "unlucky 21" (sounds like a Tarantino movie  ) and I am in the same situation: Welectron has yet to provide a replacement (or any information regarding the issue) and does not reply to emails.

[ebastler]

In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.

No, you got that wrong. The end customer has a warranty claim against the seller. Of course, the seller (shop, distributor...) can demand recourse from the manufacturer -- having the defective product fixed by the manufacturer or replaced at the manufacturer's cost. Many sellers try to avoid the hassle by directing customers to the manufacturer directly, but as a customer you don't have to accept that route; you can insist that the dealer makes things right for you.

Is this unfair to the dealer because they are "innocent"? I don't think so, it's simply part of their cost of doing business. Their margins need to cover the effort it takes to sell you the product, as well as the occasional effort for post-sales support.