Siglent SDS6204 versus Wavesurfer 4104HD versus R&S RTA4K-COM, which to choose ?

[cgroen]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope, I was just wondering if a similar thing is going on in the SDS6xxx or if Siglent has eliminated that (as I would like that feature to be present in my new scope...)

Hello,

than your choice is simpler as the RTA4004 has no zone trigger.

Best regards
egonotto

Yes, I realize that also, and the same goes for the Wavesurfer if I'm not mistaken

[tautech]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope, I was just wondering if a similar thing is going on in the SDS6xxx or if Siglent has eliminated that (as I would like that feature to be present in my new scope...)

We'd need to check if using zone triggers and Segmented memory is still a limitation. I don't have time this morning however I will check it later.
There have been several FW upgrades since Dave did a review of 5kX so it may have been addressed I can't remember. It may be mentioned in the FW release notes IDK.
FYI, 5kX was the first in this range of scopes followed by 2kX Plus and now 6kA of which they all have dual zone triggers.

[2N3055]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope, I was just wondering if a similar thing is going on in the SDS6xxx or if Siglent has eliminated that (as I would like that feature to be present in my new scope...)

That was scope with very early firmware. That was fixed within the weeks from that video...
I's been more than 2 years...

[cgroen]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope, I was just wondering if a similar thing is going on in the SDS6xxx or if Siglent has eliminated that (as I would like that feature to be present in my new scope...)

That was scope with very early firmware. That was fixed within the weeks from that video...
I's been more than 2 years...

Thanks! Very good to know!

[2N3055]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope, I was just wondering if a similar thing is going on in the SDS6xxx or if Siglent has eliminated that (as I would like that feature to be present in my new scope...)

We'd need to check if using zone triggers and Segmented memory is still a limitation. I don't have time this morning however I will check it later.
There have been several FW upgrades since Dave did a review of 5kX so it may have been addressed I can't remember. It may be mentioned in the FW release notes IDK.
FYI, 5kX was the first in this range of scopes followed by 2kX Plus and now 6kA of which they all have dual zone triggers.

On  a SDS6000A zone trigger works just fine segmented memory.. That was an early version of firmware on SDSD5000X that didn't have zones fully implemented yet.

[Martin72]

Have a look at the date of the video..

I know, and I know that's not the same scope

I was too lazy for the full answer...

[Performa01]

You should not blindingly believe every misinformation posted in this forum.

Average and ERES as Acquisition modes

While it’s true that LeCroy DSOs never destroy the original sample data (for a reason!), hence will not have alternative acquisition modes like Peak Detect, Average or ERES, the same is not true for Siglent.

Every contemporary Siglent DSO except for the SDS2000X Plus has four true acquisition modes: Normal, Peak Detect, Average, ERES. For the time being, at least the SDS6000 provides Avg and ERES as math functions as well. Consequently, with a Siglent SDS6000 you have the choice, if you want it quick and dirty (acquisition mode) or the scientific way (math function) where you can apply it individually to each channel, even both at the same time thanks to the formula editor, and still have the unaffected original sample data available for different analysis purposes.


Long trigger delay

Long trigger delays, together with peak detect were the crouches required in some memoryless storage scopes in the past and even today. Do you really need ridiculously long trigger delays in a DSO where you can have up to 500 Mpts record length?

The SDS6000 can use 1 second of trigger delay at a time base of 100 µs/div. That is a 1:10000 ratio, just like LeCroy. You can still use the zoom mode, where you could go down as low as 100 ps/div.


Zone Trigger

Isn’t it funny how the same sources that spread false information about Average and ERES acquisition and warn about being limited to “only” 5000 (actually 10000) times the time base setting for the trigger delay forget to mention goodies like zone trigger at the same time?

What is more likely that professionals in need of an upper midrange DSO will be missing – a ridiculously long trigger delay or a zone trigger? Or a DSO that can have up to 500 Mpts record length, for that matter.

Likewise, could professionals who need an upper midrange DSO maybe take advantage on 2 GHz bandwidth and true 12-bit(*) converters? And a sample rate, that remains constant no matter what channels are activated?

(*) Even when we get only 8 bits, we still benefit from the linearity of a 12-bit ADC, so the high resolution modes up to 16 bits should work very well.
 
About bundle pricing: The Siglent comes as a fairly complete package, no need to pay extra for all the basic stuff like basic protocol triggers and decoders (UART, SPI, I2C, CAN, LIN) or History and Segmented Memory. Even Frequency Response Analysis comes for free. For all the rest, I think the options are priced quite reasonably.

EDIT: Clarification on the 12-bit ADC.

[cgroen]

You should not blindingly believe every misinformation posted in this forum.

Average and ERES as Acquisition modes

While it’s true that LeCroy DSOs never destroy the original sample data (for a reason!), hence will not have alternative acquisition modes like Peak Detect, Average or ERES, the same is not true for Siglent.

Every contemporary Siglent DSO except for the SDS2000X Plus has four true acquisition modes: Normal, Peak Detect, Average, ERES. For the time being, at least the SDS6000 provides Avg and ERES as math functions as well. Consequently, with a Siglent SDS6000 you have the choice, if you want it quick and dirty (acquisition mode) or the scientific way (math function) where you can apply it individually to each channel, even both at the same time thanks to the formula editor, and still have the unaffected original sample data available for different analysis purposes.


Long trigger delay

Long trigger delays, together with peak detect were the crouches required in some memoryless storage scopes in the past and even today. Do you really need ridiculously long trigger delays in a DSO where you can have up to 500 Mpts record length?

The SDS6000 can use 1 second of trigger delay at a time base of 100 µs/div. That is a 1:10000 ratio, just like LeCroy. You can still use the zoom mode, where you could go down as low as 100 ps/div.


Zone Trigger

Isn’t it funny how the same sources that spread false information about Average and ERES acquisition and warn about being limited to “only” 5000 (actually 10000) times the time base setting for the trigger delay forget to mention goodies like zone trigger at the same time?

What is more likely that professionals in need of an upper midrange DSO will be missing – a ridiculously long trigger delay or a zone trigger? Or a DSO that can have up to 500 Mpts record length, for that matter.

Likewise, could professionals who need an upper midrange DSO maybe take advantage on 2 GHz bandwidth and true 12-bit(*) converters? And a sample rate, that remains constant no matter what channels are activated?

(*) Even when we get only 8 bits, we still benefit from the linearity of a 12-bit ADC, so the high resolution modes up to 16 bits should work very well.
 
About bundle pricing: The Siglent comes as a fairly complete package, no need to pay extra for all the basic stuff like basic protocol triggers and decoders (UART, SPI, I2C, CAN, LIN) or History and Segmented Memory. Even Frequency Response Analysis comes for free. For all the rest, I think the options are priced quite reasonably.

EDIT: Clarification on the 12-bit ADC.

Thanks a lot for your input!
I have now asked for a quote from Batronix in Germany for the 6204 (and the waveform generator and digital inputs...), could well end up being "the one"

[tautech]

I have now asked for a quote from Batronix in Germany for the 6204 (and the waveform generator and digital inputs...), could well end up being "the one"

What are your FG requirements...the single channel 25 MHz SAG1021I is pretty basic apart from having an isolated output. If you want more functionality the SDG1032X is the better choice although it doesn't have isolated outputs.

[cgroen]

I have now asked for a quote from Batronix in Germany for the 6204 (and the waveform generator and digital inputs...), could well end up being "the one"

What are your FG requirements...the single channel 25 MHz SAG1021I is pretty basic apart from having an isolated output. If you want more functionality the SDG1032X is the better choice although it doesn't have isolated outputs.

I already have a SDG2122X, the SAG was "just" for the isolated output (and if there is possibly anything gained from it being "integrated" with the SDS?)

[tautech]

I have now asked for a quote from Batronix in Germany for the 6204 (and the waveform generator and digital inputs...), could well end up being "the one"

What are your FG requirements...the single channel 25 MHz SAG1021I is pretty basic apart from having an isolated output. If you want more functionality the SDG1032X is the better choice although it doesn't have isolated outputs.

I already have a SDG2122X, the SAG was "just" for the isolated output (and if there is possibly anything gained from it being "integrated" with the SDS?)

Other than the isolated output you seek (check the spec) your SDG2122X will plug and play seamlessly for Bode plot via a USB or LAN connection but of course the SAG is a tiny device that adds to the portability of the whole package rather than also carry the SDG around.
Anyways, SAG should be a smart choice and add flexibility to the package. 

[cgroen]

I have now asked for a quote from Batronix in Germany for the 6204 (and the waveform generator and digital inputs...), could well end up being "the one"

What are your FG requirements...the single channel 25 MHz SAG1021I is pretty basic apart from having an isolated output. If you want more functionality the SDG1032X is the better choice although it doesn't have isolated outputs.

I already have a SDG2122X, the SAG was "just" for the isolated output (and if there is possibly anything gained from it being "integrated" with the SDS?)

Other than the isolated output you seek (check the spec) your SDG2122X will plug and play seamlessly for Bode plot via a USB or LAN connection but of course the SAG is a tiny device that adds to the portability of the whole package rather than also carry the SDG around.
Anyways, SAG should be a smart choice and add flexibility to the package. 

Brilliant that the SDG2122 can "talk" with the scope for Bode plot!
I have now issued an order for a SDS6204A with options, THANKS to all who have given me input with this, VERY much appreciated!
Delivery time was quoted at 3 weeks, now the hard part begins 

[egonotto]

Hello,

have fun with your new scope.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

And present it here...

[cgroen]

And present it here...

Will do once I get it

[tv84]

And present it here...

Will do once I get it

Is there something left for us to license? 

[cgroen]

And present it here...

Will do once I get it

Is there something left for us to license? 

Absolutely
Got "only" the logic analyzer and waveform generator options with it

[cgroen]

The instrument has arrived (from Batronix, Germany).
First impression is WTF, the fans are LOUD! And then 30 seconds or so, they go silent 
Second impression is the screen is large!

Now there is some "getting to know it"! Need to connect the waveform generator module and the digital inputs etc.

Tried with a Leo Bodnar pulser on it, no special settings etc, just hooked it up and took some screenshots: