LeCroy's newest Siglent scope (SDS3000) has arrived!

[rob77]

btw... is it only me ? or... ?.. i think a touch screen is actually a disadvantage... i don't want to touch the waveform and cover it with my finger... i want to see it all the time -  that's why i'm using a scope and actually adjusting with knobs and buttons is faster than touching the screen and sliding your finger to adjust something.

Before making such a statement think about why every smartphone has a touchscreen nowadays. A touchscreen works very intuitive because of our nature.

agree , touch screens are perfect for smart phones, tablets and notebooks/laptops - i'm enjoying the touch control on all of those...
but to adjust the scope i preffer knobs and buttons.... turn the knob and your offset is adjusted , wile with touch screen - it would be touch the screen to pop-up the offset adjustment and slide your finger to adjust.

[Lukas]

wile with touch screen - it would be touch the screen to pop-up the offset adjustment and slide your finger to adjust.

If the manufacturer didn't think for five seconds. Even back at the old Agilent Infiniium scopes (windows 98 bases >15years old) you could grab the waveform either by the waveform itself or by it's GND marker. In some cases this is even more intuitive than the know (say you want to move the waveform so that it lines up with something else)

[Dongulus]

I'm all for moving to touch screen user interfaces on oscilloscopes, but I haven't used one that works well. This one looks just as bad as any other. From the tech demo it looks like it's really slow and klunky.

We have a Tektronix DPO7000 series scope at work and most of controls are only accessible through the (Resistive  ) touch screen. The menu system is like a typical Windows menu bar, and it's not very intuitive. The menu items are tiny and easy to select the wrong item, even with regular sized fingers. Worst of all, at the bottom of the screen the touch point doesn't line up correctly with the position on the LCD. I have to always mentally add a 1 cm offset to correctly select anything.

turn the knob and your offset is adjusted , wile with touch screen - it would be touch the screen to pop-up the offset adjustment and slide your finger to adjust.

It wouldn't have to be, the icons for offset are already always shown on the side of the screen, why not make those icons draggable? Same with the trigger.
Maybe it's just me, but I would love to have the ability to pinch to change the time base and volts/div, or swipe the screen to look through a waveform. It's intuitive for looking at websites on my phone, I don't see why it wouldn't be intuitive for an oscilloscope. If someone could deliver me that and make it smooth and responsive, I'd definitely want it.

Now when are we going to get an oscilloscope that's controlled using gesture recognition? 

[MJR]

I think it is all in the quality of the implementation. I know I was dead set against touch screens on a phone until I actually used one and appreciated how well the interface had been adapted to touch. I think that may also point to another problem they may have in selling this. Specifically, access to the unit before purchase. I had plenty of opportunity to use touch phones before switching. I doubt that will be the case here.

The one area where touch screens do fail for me is entering fine adjustments through a simulated slider or knob. Often I find that the precision I need in a slider is not obtainable with my fat fingers. This happens in iCircuit a lot. I end up hitting the text area next to the slider and using the on screen keyboard because I can't get the slider to stay at the exact spot I want. This can be alleviated somewhat by the programmer, but if your finger tip covers 7x7 mm and the increments on the touch object are significantly less, it is very difficult to fix.

Also, in general, change like this really requires a "killer function or app" that is hands down better than the competition and REALLY makes you re-think your bias for the way things are. I am not seeing that in the videos. Perhaps it is there, but just having a guy tell me that he "needs this" touchscreen is not it. And just showing me how the onscreen objects work like knobs and such is not it either.

I will watch the videos again to see if I missed it, but it really needs a knock your socks off function to overcome the initial resistance to change. Also, I know that some scopes and analyzers had touch screen functions in the past, but they did not wipe out knobs and switch units simply because they were not so much better at what they did. Like it or not, change really does have to be demonstrably better to have a chance.

[nctnico]

btw... is it only me ? or... ?.. i think a touch screen is actually a disadvantage... i don't want to touch the waveform and cover it with my finger... i want to see it all the time -  that's why i'm using a scope and actually adjusting with knobs and buttons is faster than touching the screen and sliding your finger to adjust something.

Before making such a statement think about why every smartphone has a touchscreen nowadays. A touchscreen works very intuitive because of our nature.

agree , touch screens are perfect for smart phones, tablets and notebooks/laptops - i'm enjoying the touch control on all of those...
but to adjust the scope i preffer knobs and buttons.... turn the knob and your offset is adjusted , wile with touch screen - it would be touch the screen to pop-up the offset adjustment and slide your finger to adjust.

Nope. In my idea: Just touch the signal and slide it up or down. Same for scrolling left/right and pinching or spreading your fingers to change the timebase or vertical scale. Who's idea is it anyway to have a vertical and horizontal scale in 1-2-5 increments? Those are just limits because of the knobs. I have dealt a lot with touch screen interfaces in the past and it really is a good technology when applied properly.

A dirty screen is a disadvantage but then again I need to wipe the dust from my screens regulary anyway.

[iRad]

Too bad a company like Apple doesn't see the profit in making an nice oscilloscope with a really good touchscreen interface. Although if they did, it would have only have ONE knob. 

[casinada]

If your hands are dirty and greasy you shouldn't be touching electronic test equipment 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Also, in general, change like this really requires a "killer function or app" that is hands down better than the competition and REALLY makes you re-think your bias for the way things are. I am not seeing that in the videos. Perhaps it is there, but just having a guy tell me that he "needs this" touchscreen is not it. And just showing me how the onscreen objects work like knobs and such is not it either.

The 'killer function' simply isn't there with the WaveSurfer 3000 which at the end of the day only offers very basic functionality. But don't forget that this isn't the only LeCroy scope with touch screen, and on the larger scopes (WaveSurfer MXi and up, which are all XStream scopes running a full copy of Windows) the touch functionality does make much more sense, as there is more functionality available where touch brings an advantage.

I guess the only reason the WaveSurfer 3000 has a touch interface is that they wanted to resemble the UI of their XStream scopes. Judging by the videos, it really looks rather clunky and cheap.

[KedasProbe]

I like the way this UI is gong, obviously this is something you have to try to know if the right knobs and touchscreen features are there.

Standard DB-15 connector (support resolution of 1024x600)
Nice resolution increase, although you would think 1280x720 is easier to get now for this screen size.
Still an big analogue output connector?
How long do they expect the analogue connector to stay around on monitors...

Edit:
Their HDO4000 series does have an 12.1" 1280*800 screen and HDMI out. (but they cost a lot)
If someone likes to give away like 10000 dollar let me know

[Hydrawerk]

Let us compare Siglent vs. Lecroy again, LOL.

[Hydrawerk]

The waveform update rate IMHO slows down when that guy turns up that serial decoding.   And he should buy a better non-wobbling table, LOL.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Too bad a company like Apple doesn't see the profit in making an nice oscilloscope with a really good touchscreen interface. Although if they did, it would have only have ONE knob. 

If Apple would build an oscilloscope it would be called 'iScope' and would have been made from a single block of Aluminium, with only one button, and a ultra high resolution touch display with 48 finger multitouch support, It would look absolutely great, but would also have a single 542.7256 kohms input with proprietary connector which requires either special probes (in Apple white, 100MHz x10 for $579 a piece, 250MHz x1/x10 switchable for $799) or an 'iConvert' adapter ($449) which converts the proprietary input to a standard 1 Mohms BNC input. It would technically have 1GS/s real-time sample rate but Apple would call it '50G Supersampling' because that's what the scope would do in multisampling mode and this would be the only mode available (real time sampling could be unlocked after a jailbreak, though). Of course the scope would run 'iScopeOS' (which would be based on iOS) and come with the new 'iMeasure' application which would be something like iTunes but for waveforms instead of music. It would also come with its own integrated store where users can buy waveforms so they don't have to make measurements themselves any more.

A year later the new iScope 2 would come out. It would of course be even shiny-er, and come with '100G Supersampling' (still based on 1GS/s ADCs). It would also come with two or four proprietary inputs, but unfortunately the connector is new and the impedance is now 711.3423 kOhms so the old probes and 'iConvert' no longer fit. Along with the new scope a new version of iScopeOS for scopes would be introduced, now with different color scheme ('Norwegian Tundra' as default color scheme) and support for biometric user identification by licking of the single scope button which also functions as biometric sensor, but since this requires a lickable button iScope 1 would be no longer supported.

 

[rf-loop]

Let us compare Siglent vs. Lecroy again, LOL.

What this "compare mean".
All know it is technically same.

You did not look what reads bottom left of Siglent TFT.
"Siglent powered by Teledyne LeCroy"

[rf-loop]

If Apple would build an oscilloscope it would be called 'iScope' and would have been made from a single block of Aluminium, with only one button, and a ultra high resolution touch display with 48 finger multitouch support, It would look absolutely great, but would also have a single 542.7256 kohms input with proprietary connector which requires either special probes (in Apple white, 100MHz x10 for $579 a piece, 250MHz x1/x10 switchable for $799) or an 'iConvert' adapter ($449) which converts the proprietary input to a standard 1 Mohms BNC input. It would technically have 1GS/s real-time sample rate but Apple would call it '50G Supersampling' because that's what the scope would do in multisampling mode and this would be the only mode available (real time sampling could be unlocked after a jailbreak, though). Of course the scope would run 'iScopeOS' (which would be based on iOS) and come with the new 'iMeasure' application which would be something like iTunes but for waveforms instead of music. It would also come with its own integrated store where users can buy waveforms so they don't have to make measurements themselves any more.

A year later the new iScope 2 would come out. It would of course be even shiny-er, and come with '100G Supersampling' (still based on 1GS/s ADCs). It would also come with two or four proprietary inputs, but unfortunately the connector is new and the impedance is now 711.3423 kOhms so the old probes and 'iConvert' no longer fit. Along with the new scope a new version of iScopeOS for scopes would be introduced, now with different color scheme ('Norwegian Tundra' as default color scheme) and support for biometric user identification by licking of the single scope button which also functions as biometric sensor, but since this requires a lickable button iScope 1 would be no longer supported.

 

Best of month!
  ent 88  x

[rkupka]

Wuerstchenhund, you nailed it   

[iRad]

A year later the new iScope 2 would come out.

No way would that happen...
After a year on the market, the new release would be the iScope Plus with marginal performance tweaks. Those sitting on the 'iScopeOS' fence would have to wait another year for the real upgrade.

Meanwhile, Google comes out with their me-too Android powered scope on a wrist that you control merely with eye movement gestures.

[rob77]

@ Wuerstchenhund   

you really nailed it to the cross !


and let's not forget their new patent ! "Lick to unlock" will be patented by them and all woman over the world using this "unlock" method will have to pay fees   

[KedasProbe]

This is the 4000 series UI but still interesting to watch (when you use a monitor or projector you can use a mouse instead of the touchscreen, it has HDMI out, it is basically a PC with scope front end using FPGA to  PCIe)
http://jaunty-electronics.com/blog/2014/03/apec-2014-lecroy-power-measurement-demo/

[KF5OBS]

Disclaimer: I'm just guessing and have no clue.

In this case LeCroy probably lead the design, particularly on the SW side and uses the cooperation with Siglent to reduce manufacturing cost. I have used the MAUI interface on the HDO4000 for over a year now and I have to say that it's a very convenient tool. There seem to be a few misconceptions about how useful or not useful it is. Like someone brought up the issue that when pointing at the screen, one may accidentally hit the touch and mess something up. For that purpose there is a "touch enable / disable" button. I make it procedure to turn touch off after I'm done setting things up. But it's really nice to control things like zoom areas with my fingers. I will address some of the other issues listed in this thread once I hold the WS3000 in my hands and can transition from guessing to knowing.

[Wuerstchenhund]

In this case LeCroy probably lead the design, particularly on the SW side and uses the cooperation with Siglent to reduce manufacturing cost.

I really hope so. Siglent can produce some really decent hardware but their software is a different story (although they're probably still one of the better ones in the Chinese instruments market).

I have used the MAUI interface on the HDO4000 for over a year now and I have to say that it's a very convenient tool.

The HDO4k a true XStream scope, i.e. it runs the full XStream package on a 'full' version of Windows (yes, it's Embedded, but it's close to a standard Windows version, and you can install other Windows programs on the scope). The WS3000 on the other hand is apparently a true embedded device (ARM?) with an interface (MAUI) that resembles the UI of HDO and other Windows-based LeCroy scopes.

There seem to be a few misconceptions about how useful or not useful it is. Like someone brought up the issue that when pointing at the screen, one may accidentally hit the touch and mess something up. For that purpose there is a "touch enable / disable" button. I make it procedure to turn touch off after I'm done setting things up. But it's really nice to control things like zoom areas with my fingers. I will address some of the other issues listed in this thread once I hold the WS3000 in my hands and can transition from guessing to knowing.

Yes, but judging from the video the WS3k UI doesn't seem to be as fluent as the XStream UI on the HDO and other Windows-based LeCroy scopes.