PicoVNA

[Omicron]

I received mine last week. I'm certainly not an expert on VNAs but my first impression on the device are both good and bad.

The good: the hardware seems to deliver. It worked without any issues and I was able to make reproducible measurements all the way up to the advertised 6GHz. It comes in a very nice case that also holds all the accessories. If you'll be doing a lot of 2-port measurements, consider buying 2 calibration kits as that will speed things up. I didn't buy the high end ones, the standard ones seem to do the job well enough for my purposes.

The bad: the software looks and feels like it was thrown together in a hurry by someone inexperienced (in UI design). I really expected better from a company that specialises in USB based test equipment. PicoTech offered the usual excuses: had to get things shipping, first concentrate on the algorithms, etc. It's a shame really because this could be a great product if the software received the same kind of attention as the hardware. As it is now, I would not feel comfortable recommending it to anyone. My advice would be to first try the software and see if you can live with it. Hopefully users will put enough pressure on PicoTech to replace the software with something decent.

[D3f1ant]

Thanks, that took a long time to arrive. Might download the software and have a look. Still can't decide what to buy. Might have to wait for a teardown review somewhere.

[plemli]

I have been eyeing the PicoVNA for some time as there were some projects in the pipeline where it could turn out that a VNA was needed, and that day seems to have arrived.
There isn't really anything in its price/performance range, and I'm quite hesitant to buy or rent second hand boat anchors like the HP 8753.
Also I have had nothing but good experiences with Pico improving software steadily - I have owned a PicoScope 5000 for what seems like an eternity.

@Omicron: would you care to elaborate on your experience ?

[1design]

let us check and come back to you asap, thanks

Any news?

[Omicron]

@Omicron: would you care to elaborate on your experience ?

I stand by what I said before. The hardware is good and on par with other stuff from picotech. I've had no problems getting good measurement results (disclaimer: I am not an RF expert).

The software however is NOT what you would expect from a company that specialises in USB test equipment. It is written in (of all things) Visual Basic 6, a development tool that was deprecated over a decade ago! Aside from that it looks and feels like a quick proof of concept. The pico scope software you are used to is based on .NET and is far more professional.

[borjam]

If Picotech is reading this, maybe they should contact the author of VNA/j. I know it has room for improvement (I have bombarded him with lots of suggestions myself!) but I think it's much better than the typical Visual Basic program.

As a start, it works on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.

[dl2sba]

My inbox is open ;-)

//Dietmar

http://vnaj.dl2sba.com

[tititoto]

Hi,

I'm also looking for the good solution to buy a VNA at decent price.
About the software of the Pico, you should take a look on the LaTechnique website, they design VNA and the software looks all the same.

Sincerely,

[D3f1ant]

The software UI is very quirky, but functional. I really hope they at least add some dark themes and improve screen usage, there is a lot of empty white space.

[plemli]

PicoVNA arrived, was ordered with two cal kits (f/m) and cables.

First impressions are that the hardware and supplied cables etc are of good quality.
The software indeed is functional, but needs work to bring it up to the experience of e.g. PicoScope. The hardware deserves better.

As a starter I have measured S11 of several 1.2GHz and 5.8GHz antennae (for FPV). Amazing to see how the 1.28GHz ones I made myself a few years ago have an excellent match and are tuned spot on (using my R&S SA/TG/bridge) while the commercial ones are all over. Some are decent/good but narrowband and tuned to an arbitrary f, others are barely registering as an antenna and one helical was great with a wide bandwidth.

I'm now awaiting a custom LNA to be produced and delivered to delve into the real work, learning about full 2 port measurements, reference planes, connector deembedding etc.

[rfspezi]

Any news about improvements of the software?
I still can't decide between an old 8753 VNA and an the PicoVNA.

[Omicron]

The software is still the same. I highly doubt they will make major improvements to it considering it was written in a dead development tool.

It has a demo mode though, so you can download it and see if you can live with it. That data it produces is good and you can export it in touchstone format. Personally I think the PicoVNA is a much more practical instrument to have than an old HP box, despite the crappy software. On the other hand, if I had the budget I'd step up to the Tek TTR500. Its software is much better in my view. But then it's twice the price.

[rfspezi]

I downloaded the software and tested it in demo mode.
It's really crappy and a pain to use compared to todays UI standards.
If the price was 3000 instead of 6000 USD i would probably tolerate that.

The Tek TTR506 would be a nice alternative - but way out of my budget.
The MegiQ VNA-0460 would be interesting if there wasn't that lower frequency limitation at 400 MHz.

Is there another good alternative providing 6 GHz frequency range?

[1design]

The TEK is now being sold with Option LE, which is a lower performance version, still pretty good for hobby use at a substantially reduced price:
https://www.tek.com/vna/ttr500
TTR506A, Option LE

You might want to check it out.

[Neganur]

There's nothing regarding option LE on that website. Could you just link the price here...?

[1design]

Here you go!

[Neganur]

I like how you can download the software and use it offline to load s2p files and have a look at them.
I just don't understand why the software tries to animate the trace to give you the impression it is a live measurement...

(s-parameters of a 10.7 MHz 8-pole band pass filter with 7.5KHz pass band attached)

EDIT: the software is a bit of a PITA to navigate, the submenus have no 'back' button etc  arrgh!

[julianhigginson]

so... any users of picoVNA want to update this thread and chime in with how it's going, now it's been in the market for nearly a year?

the software review in here was a little worrying, but then again I'm an altium user, so a fair bit of funnyness is tolerable, as long as it's basically usable and will let me do my work once I learn how it behaves.

I'm more keen to buy a tool like this from a supplier with a history of keeping their products supported with the companion software (So pico are looking good to me there)  rather than someone with the flashiest most UI consistent on-trend app stylings.

Also, any thoughts on this vs the new cut down spec TEK TTR506A, Option LE mentioned in this thread earlier this year?

[RFDUK]

Another option that fits well with the budgets described at the start of this thread is Copper Mountain Technologies USB VNA products.

CMT software is available for download with a demo mode. Looks and feels pretty good. That would be a good comparison for the PICO SW.

I've seen folks on other threads pointing out that CMT specifications are not sufficiently comprehensive to compare with higher end instruments. I'm not a heavy VNA user above 1 Ghz so don't know on that one, but at the price point and with the available offerings in the market, they looked pretty good to us.

We are taking delivery of a single port R60 in a week or two for some specific tasks, I'll post about how we get on with it.

It's a relatively new and small outfit but they do provide 3 year warranties. It would be interesting to hear from any CMT VNA users.

[julianhigginson]

The copper mountain stuff looks great, but the only thing in the price range of the pico vna is the 6G reflectometer for around AU$6000.... 
For 6GHz in a 2 port VNA (S5065) the local distributor has an AU$18k price tag.

While the local distributor price is AU$8k for the pico VNA

If all I wanted to do was tuning antennas (to be fair it's most of what I want to do!) those reflectometers do look like they'd be pretty good. but without a 2nd port, it's a little too limited.

[RFDUK]

Thanks for the price comparisons Julian. The CMT 2 port products are more expensive than I had remembered compared to PICO.

The CMT TR5048 4.8 Ghz product, 2 port but 1 path, is US $7500 plus taxes.

If 1.3 Ghz max fits, then the TR1300/1 is US $2,750 plus taxes. 1.3 Ghz just too low for most folks apps at this 'professional' price point I guess.

[G0HZU]

FWIW I downloaded the Pico VNA SW and tried it today.

I agree with the other posters in that it is very basic with poor overall presentation and fairly clunky operation. I suspect that the designer of the GUI prefers the clinical appeal of the all white background but for me it looks wrong and gives it the look of a developmental platform.
At the very least I'd suggest they offer the end user a 'skin' option where they can define the colours of the traces and the chart background and the white background themselves. It's still going to look dated and clunky but maybe it won't look so harsh?

I tried importing some classic s2p files to it but gave up as it isn't very flexible in terms of the formats it can accept. It rejected all my s2p files and these were generated from various different sources. Not a big deal but a bit disappointing.

The price seems remarkably low for a full 2 port 6GHz VNA. At work, we are pushing for a small 'hackerspace' type room where people can play and we want small/neat/tidy/cheap test gear that will stay there.
The little 6GHz Pico VNA would be ideal for stuff like this if it can deliver reasonable performance for that price. We have dozens of high end VNAs at work but they take up space and are in constant demand. The Pico VNA wouldn't qualify for a lot of the stuff we do but it is probably going to be more than adequate for casual research work. I could live with the GUI especially if there was that 'skin' option available.

[Omicron]

You can actually change the colours in the UI. It's one of the first things I did as well. You find this feature in the "tools" menu where it's called "color scheme".

[julianhigginson]

Omicron, has there been anything in the way of updates or improvements on the picoVNA software since release?
despite niggles, does it actually let you do real work?
For such a relatively expensive bit of gear, it's a bit off-putting to think that the software you need to use it is being treated like an afterthought, rather than a priority. I don't mind if it behaves a bit niggly (altium style!) But do need to know this will work and be supported for a long time! from what you've said so far it's a bit worrying

I found out that the TEK TTR506A option LE isn't available outside north america. such a crappy marketing move. My local Tek guy is trying really hard to do the best he can on a normal TTR506A, and is trying to lock in a competitive price, but despite being significantly better than a picoVNA on specs, it's still significantly more expensive... And unfortunately for him, the whole situation of region limited sales is just putting me off Tek altogether. Why do I want to deal at all with a manufacturer that blatantly acts to create deliberate favoured and unfavoured sales regions in this day and age? (And it would be ironic if this becomes the reason my next scope isn't a Tek. Stepping up from my DPO2024 is my next major purchase plan, for sometime in the next financial year.)

I just wish signal hound had released a VNA instead of the monster realtime specan they released recently. I'm really happy with my BB60, and have experienced their commitment to supporting their hardware and software ongoing, So if they released a VNA I'd have no qualms at all about buying it on specs and price alone.

It's all makes me wonder if I should just save my money and keep limping along with my pocketVNA, but beef up the BB60 with a signal hound tracking generator and a directional coupler, and at least then I'd have a decent scalar network analyser to run alongside my drifty noisy VNA. Maybe even finding a good deal on a 6G boat anchor would be a better idea? at least I'm not stuck depending on windows software if I buy an old 8753.

[Omicron]

I'm not aware of any updates to the UI. They seem unlikely to me for the reasons I stated in previous posts. But you can check it out for yourself, the software can be downloaded from their website and can run in a demo mode.

If you have the budget for a Tek TTR506A then I'd recommend to also look at the new R&S ZNLE. The Signal Path Blog has a good review of it. It's roughly in the same price bracket as the TTR506A. I had one on demo for a few weeks and found the user interface to be absolutely top notch and much more intuitive than the Tek (and lightyears beyond the PicoVNA). It's also more mature in terms of features.