Oscilloscope Buying questions

[nctnico]

Look at the GW Instek GDS-1054B if you don't care about hacking and decoding. It is cheaper than the Rigol 1054Z at Tequipment. It will also be the better buy.

[jsi]

Look at the GW Instek GDS-1054B if you don't care about hacking and decoding. It is cheaper than the Rigol 1054Z at Tequipment. It will also be the better buy.

I looked at the GDS-1054B and I like that it has separate controls for each channel.  That said I'll probably end up hacking the Rigol which makes it quite a deal.

[bitseeker]

I agree. The separate controls for each channel are ideal. If only it had the protocol decoding, I'd be OK with the bandwidth.

[Fungus]

Look at the GW Instek GDS-1054B if you don't care about hacking and decoding. It is cheaper than the Rigol 1054Z at Tequipment. It will also be the better buy.

Hmmm... seems like other people are finally dropping prices to Rigol levels to try and keep from going out of business. They're even copying the Rigol numbering system (1054Z or 1054B - you decide).

Maybe we can petition Dave to do a shootout video. 

At the end of the day, the Rigol's hackability still gives it the edge though. Your only argument against it seems to be a very short list bugs that may be fixed at any moment. Weigh that list against having double the bandwidth, serial decoders, etc., and ... the Rigol is a clear winner. 

[nctnico]

Rigol (or Siglent) releasing a decent firmware version will require a cold day in hell to happen first so I rather buy something which works today. And even then the platforms Rigol and Siglent use in their current scopes are way slower than the dual core 1GHz ARM Cortex in the GW Instek. So GW Instek dead in the water? What have you been smoking? The GW Instek GDS2204E I have even managed to move itself in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench. The GW Instek is that good and easy to use!

[Fungus]

Rigol (or Siglent) releasing a decent firmware version will require a cold day in hell to happen first

I must have been imagining all those previous updates (and Dave's blog videos on them).

....in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench.

Was a $25k scope. I've thrown $250,000 SGI computers in the skip because a $250 PC graphics card was better. 

Your 'scope cost three times as much as a DS1054Z. I'd expect some improvement, yes.

[nctnico]

....in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench.

Was a $25k scope.

You can still buy the DSO7104B from Keysight (the only change between the A version is a different front panel) so it is not like comparing 30 year old technology with today's technology like you are doing. And sure the GDS2204E is 3 times more expensive but it is at least 10 times better. Once you have learned the value of good tools you know that spending more will make your life a whole lot easier.

[Wuerstchenhund]

....in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench.

Agilent is expensive but the DSO7104A didn't cost anywhere near $25k but more like $15k ($19k for the MSO variant).

Keysight has artificially inflated the RRP of the DSO7104B to $24k to push customers to the larger DSO-X models. I doubt any DSO7104B has sold for more than $18k.

I've thrown $250,000 SGI computers in the skip because a $250 PC graphics card was better. 

Me, too. 

Ah, SGI, good old times of way overpriced hardware with various design flaws put in a beautiful housing

[jsi]

Maybe we can petition Dave to do a shootout video. 

+1 to that idea.  Multimeter shootouts are a dime a dozen (and very helpful mind you)  But if there are any scope shootouts I haven't found them.  Not that it will do me any good at this point, I will have bought the Rigol 1054Z by then.  I hope it doesn't turn out like my multimeter, I found about about the EEVBlog meter after I'd already bought one.     (oh well, I'm still going to buy one for the cool factor)

[Howardlong]

....in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench.

Was a $25k scope.

You can still buy the DSO7104B from Keysight (the only change between the A version is a different front panel) so it is not like comparing 30 year old technology with today's technology like you are doing. And sure the GDS2204E is 3 times more expensive but it is at least 10 times better. Once you have learned the value of good tools you know that spending more will make your life a whole lot easier.

Having said that, the 7000B compared to 7000A is a bit like once you've used it you don't want to go back: things like every knob having an additional push function I have found I use extensively, but in the past I always saw this as a barely relevant feature. On the MDO3000 I have I find it positively irritating that I can't easily zero or default many functions.

[Howardlong]

Maybe we can petition Dave to do a shootout video. 

I strongly suspect that would be an extremely popular video, or even a series of two or three videos. I'd also imagine it'd take a while to make too.

[nctnico]

Maybe we can petition Dave to do a shootout video. 

+1 to that idea.

Only if there is an objective system for keeping scores like -10 points for each bug, +50 points for hackability, log10 points for (FFT length/1000), etc.

[jsi]

....in the place of an Agilent DSO7104A (that is a $25k scope) on my bench.

Agilent is expensive but the DSO7104A didn't cost anywhere near $25k but more like $15k ($19k for the MSO variant).

Keysight has artificially inflated the RRP of the DSO7104B to $24k to push customers to the larger DSO-X models. I doubt any DSO7104B has sold for more than $18k.

I've thrown $250,000 SGI computers in the skip because a $250 PC graphics card was better. 

Guys $18 - $25K scopes are way out of my price range   

And, 30 years ago my company had their CAD system on an IBM mainframe.  It was state of the art at the time and about the size of 3 full sized American refrigerators.  It had a whopping 600 meg hard drive and 4 meg of RAM shared between 8 designers.  Lord only knows how much it cost.  My job was to replace it with high end workstations which seemed expensive to me at the time.  But, the bean counters were skipping down the hall with happiness when I pulled the plug on it. 

Now this thread is officially completely off topic

[nctnico]

Guys $18 - $25K scopes are way out of my price range   

Just saying that spending a little bit more could be well worth it. Many years ago I bought a cheap Black&decker cordless screw driver/drill. When that started to get flaky I bought a Makita costing twice as much but it is such a joy to use that I regretted not buying a Makita when I bought the Black&decker. It is easy to become blinded by a low price and don't get me wrong here: the Makita cordless drill I have is still far from a professional's tool but it is already a major step up from the bottom-of-the-barrel products.

[ez24]

Guys $18 - $25K scopes are way out of my price range   

Now this thread is officially completely off topic

OPs price range =   $300 - $400 USD give or take.

FYI  this is the way all these oscope questions go:

Q: "I want a $400 scope"       A: "Look at this one, it is only $20,000"

[jsi]

Guys $18 - $25K scopes are way out of my price range   

Just saying that spending a little bit more could be well worth it. Many years ago I bought a cheap Black&decker cordless screw driver/drill. When that started to get flaky I bought a Makita costing twice as much but it is such a joy to use that I regretted not buying a Makita when I bought the Black&decker. Don't get me wrong here: the Makita cordless drill is still far from a professional's tool but it is already a major step up from the bottom-of-the-barrel products.

I have the same story.  I bought a $30 POS 1/2" Harbor Freight drill because I only need to drill 6 big holes for one project and why spend all that money on a nice drill.  Fast forward and I'm using the drill all the time and the trigger sticks on and the damn thing near twists my hand off.  I threw the thing in the trash and bought a $150 DeWalt.  The DeWalt is an absolute joy to use compared to the Harbor Freight drill.  But, and this is a big but, who knew at the time I'd be using the 1/2" drill all the time?  So, do I spend 2, 4, 5 times as much on everything that I might only use once?  It's a judgement call and frankly in my judgement a USB scope would probably do my job just fine.  Stepping up to a dedicated, well reviewed scope, feels like spending that little bit extra to get a product that will last.  Is this a professional's scope, no, and I'm not a professional so the fit feels good to me.

Now, the next question is do I add this to my shopping cart: Cal Test CT4042 Oscilloscope Accessory Kit http://www.tequipment.net/Cal-Test/CT4042/  It's $65 before the discount and I don't have clue if I need such a thing.

[nctnico]

Now, the next question is do I add this to my shopping cart: Cal Test CT4042 Oscilloscope Accessory Kit http://www.tequipment.net/Cal-Test/CT4042/  It's $65 before the discount and I don't have clue if I need such a thing.

That kit can be bought for around $10 (or less) from China through Ebay.

[ez24]

Now, the next question is do I add this to my shopping cart: Cal Test CT4042 Oscilloscope Accessory Kit http://www.tequipment.net/Cal-Test/CT4042/  It's $65 before the discount and I don't have clue if I need such a thing.

That kit can be bought for around $10 (or less) from China through Ebay.

Any links?  I could not find one.  tks

[nctnico]

Now, the next question is do I add this to my shopping cart: Cal Test CT4042 Oscilloscope Accessory Kit http://www.tequipment.net/Cal-Test/CT4042/  It's $65 before the discount and I don't have clue if I need such a thing.

That kit can be bought for around $10 (or less) from China through Ebay.

Any links?  I could not find one.  tks

Just look for the seperate parts (shipping from China is free):
www.ebay.com/itm/271657862398
www.ebay.com/itm/BNC-Female-Jack-to-Two-Dual-Banana-Male-plug-RF-Adapter-Connector-/271686023997
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-BNC-Q9-Male-Plug-to-Test-Hook-Clip-Probe-Cable-Leads-DAU-/221964823338

The good thing is you can buy multiple items you find useful and skip the items you don't need.

[Fungus]

Guys $18 - $25K scopes are way out of my price range   

Just saying that spending a little bit more could be well worth it. Many years ago I bought a cheap Black&decker cordless screw driver/drill. When that started to get flaky I bought a Makita costing twice as much but it is such a joy to use that I regretted not buying a Makita when I bought the Black&decker. It is easy to become blinded by a low price and don't get me wrong here: the Makita cordless drill I have is still far from a professional's tool but it is already a major step up from the bottom-of-the-barrel products.

...and spending a bit more than your GW-Instek might be worth it, too.  Where do you stop?

PS: http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html

[Fungus]

Maybe we can petition Dave to do a shootout video. 

+1 to that idea.

Only if there is an objective system for keeping scores like -10 points for each bug, +50 points for hackability, log10 points for (FFT length/1000), etc.

Are you worried that the vibe and response-speed of your GW-Instek won't be enough...?

PS: Hackable to serial decoders, 100MHz, double memory, etc. is worth way more than 50 points on that scale.

[nctnico]

Serial decoders which only decode what is on screen are utterly useless so they don't even count.

[Fungus]

Serial decoders which only decode what is on screen are utterly useless so they don't even count.

Is it weird that I've done useful things with mine...? 

[nctnico]

I did useful things with my Black&decker cordless drill too but life got so much better with the Makita cordless drill! 

[Fungus]

I did useful things with my Black&decker cordless drill too but life got so much better with the Makita cordless drill! 

Maybe so, but you were comparing owning the Black&decker with owning no drill at all (or at best, only owning a hand drill).