New trinocular microscope image not level through lens

[Imran333]

Hi I bought a trinocular microscope from china and it’s simul focal and has continuous zoom feature, but the problem I have is, when I look through the eye pieces lens, the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat, it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle even though it’s lying flat in pcb holder, I’ve tried adjusting the stand and microscope in every way possible but still same problem, I don’t know why it’s like that and the camera image doesn’t match what i see through the lens bcuz through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera, I don’t know why the pcb board doesn’t look flat and I don’t know why the image is so small through the camera?

Hope someone can help me

[plurn]

Hi I bought a trinocular microscope from china and it’s simul focal and has continuous zoom feature, but the problem I have is, when I look through the eye pieces lens, the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat, it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle even though it’s lying flat in pcb holder, I’ve tried adjusting the stand and microscope in every way possible but still same problem, I don’t know why it’s like that and the camera image doesn’t match what i see through the lens bcuz through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera, I don’t know why the pcb board doesn’t look flat and I don’t know why the image is so small through the camera?

Hope someone can help me

Not really sure what you mean exactly. When you say "it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle", does that mean 0 degrees is up and 180 degrees is down - so you are looking at the edge of the pcb? I doubt you mean that. Do you mean it has rotated horizontally 180 degrees? If it is that can you rotate the camera in its socket 180 degrees so it displays the image the right way up?

Anyway I don't have a trinocular microscope but I have a similar stereo one. Does this manual for both microscopes match your microscope? It might have a different name but most of them are similar:

http://www.shoppal.com.my/download/7-45Xmicro.pdf

It seems to switch between eyepiece view and camera/video view you have to operate a control. see page 8 section 4.9. Maybe that is all you need to do.

There is other information there on how to set up the rest of the microscope.



One other important thing (not related to your query) is setting up the eyepieces so that the zoom stays in focus for the whole range. It is called "Microscope Parfocal Adjustment". It is not in the above instructions. When you first assemble the microscope it probably won't stay in focus for the whole zoom range which is a little annoying, so this fixes that.

Various techniques:

https://www.aventools.com/how-to-parfocal-your-stereo-zoom-microscope/

http://www.endoexperience.com/filecabinet/Clinical%20Endodontics/Surgical%20Operating%20Microscopes/Parfocal%20Adjustment.pdf

http://www.visioneng.us/resources/articles/how-to-correctly-setup-and-focus-a-stereo-microscope

[Imran333]

When I look through the eyepieces it's as if the pcb board is not lying flat as if once side of the pcb board is raised and other side is flat, like a hill that goes uphill, I don't understand why the pcb board doesn't look flat and level through the eyepieces, and my manual is different

[plurn]

Ah ok - so nothing to do with 180 degrees then. Is it maybe tilted slightly, like 7 to 15 degrees rather than 180 degrees? Might be something to do with this:

https://www.lmscope.com/en/Stereomikroskope_in_der_Fotodokumendation_en.html

Though I would think each eye would see it tilt in the opposite direction? Is this what you get, or are both eyepiece views tilted the same way?

Do you get the same effect when you are not using a barlow lens? I don't have any barlow lenses for my stereo microscope, and when I look at flat horizontal things at any zoom range they look pretty flat and undistorted to me and in focus across the whole view for both eyes (though the view for each eye is slightly different as it is stereo). I am using 10X eyepieces and have 0.7x - 4.5x zoom control (for 7x to 45x magnification).

When I look at the objective lens area of my microscope (bottom of the microscope head) I see two small lenses at slightly different angles so I expect it is using Greenough principle (from the link above).

Perhaps the control to change between eyepiece view and camera view (that I mentioned in the previous post) is not fully clicked into place so the image for one eyepiece view shows as tilted?

I suggest you go through both manuals and also the other URLs I suggested and check that your microscope is properly set up. It could also be worth doing further research on general stereo microscope set up to make sure you have set it up correctly. There are lots of free resources available online for this.

If you are still having issues after this, then perhaps your microscope optics are not aligned properly and needs servicing, or replacement of the microscope.

[Imran333]

Both eye pieces the view is the same but I'll try everything you said and get back, but I've tried every adjustment knob but still same problem and it's same problem no matter what lens I try, the pcb is probably not 180 degrees but it seems the pcb is not lying flat and is sloped at maybe 90 degree angle, but I'll try your advice and get back if it works

I’ve added a picture of what angle the pcb board looks like when I look through the eye pieces even though it’s lying flat

I've also added a picture of the microscope

[Imran333]

I've tried everything but no look, here's a picture from another buyer of the microscope and this is picture is from the camera and what I see through the lens looks similar but it is hard to tell in pictures but the pcb board doesn't look flat and level

Could it be bcuz the eye pieces are not vertically down and are at a 45 degree angle?

[jfiresto]

... Could it be bcuz the eye pieces are not vertically down and are at a 45 degree angle?

No that should not be it unless the microscope maker did something really crazy.

I can see some "keystone" distortion that is making the BGA package look trapezoidal. Is that the issue your are seeing? If it is, try tilting the specimen to the left or right and see if that makes things look square. That is a common issue and fix for Greenough design microscopes.

[jfiresto]

... through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera....

Probably the image coming out of the photo port is much larger than the camera's image sensor. You can address that by sticking a reduction lens between the camera and photo port or – even better, if you can do it – substituting a camera with a much larger image sensor that matches the image out of the photo port, both its size and focal distance. Making a camera agreeably compatible with a microscope can take some effort, and not all vendors go to the trouble.

[Mechatrommer]

When I look through the eyepieces it's as if the pcb board is not lying flat as if once side of the pcb board is raised and other side is flat, like a hill that goes uphill, I don't understand why the pcb board doesn't look flat and level through the eyepieces, and my manual is different

i think something is misaligned inside the microscope, the reflecting mirror maybe got bumped during shipment? about the camera showing smaller postion, maybe it has different lenses that make it not equal to eye viewing lenses (not Single Lens Reflex)

[Imran333]

The main problem is when I look at the pcb board through the eye pieces it looks like it's not lying flat even though it's  lying flat, it just looks like the pcb is sloped upwards, I just can't figure it out even though I've tried every adjustment possible

[KL27x]

Did you try tilting the entire microscope head forwards/backwards to compensate? It looks like you stand is adjustable for tilt in all axes.

FWIW, I never look straight down. I much prefer to tilt the head to see at a bit of an angle from completely perpendicular.

Addendum: Your idea of 90 degrees seems to be different from the rest of the world. Let alone 180 degrees, lol. The latter would be a microscope that views the back side of the board like X ray vision?

[richnormand]

A)
Does to microscope have a lever to turn the camera port on or off?

Some will have a hard mirror or prism that will sent all the light to either but not both. Some others will have a half mirror that spit the light 50/50 allowing you to use the oculars and camera at the same time (although the focus might not be exactly the same untile the camera is adjusted).
In that case as you swing the lever you will see the image rotate as you complete the arc. There should be an adjustable stop for the mirror inside that needs adjustment or something is blocking its travel. You might not notice it if the image is much larger than your camera sensitive area.. smaller will make it obvious
Remove the camera an use you eye in place of the camera at about 20cm to look at the vignetting while moving the lever.

B)
If the camera is a true binocular (not just the eyepieces splitting a single image) and has two independent optical path when the trinocular camera port is activated only one image is sent to the port. However, if you can use the oculars and the camera simultaneously a path compensation also has to be inserted in the untapped optical path. If these two prism are not aligned a rotation can appear between on channel vs the other at the oculars.

C)
If the camera path is on all the time you might have an image at the camera that is off line or way too big (intensity will be low also). A compensation lens between the camera is needed. Else there is a serious misalignment inside (anything jiggling in there?)

In either cases when using the oculars to look at a sample no rotation of the image should be apparent. Sounds like something is really wrong here. (Never saw that in the many microscopes I used or owned)

Small image in the camera. Have you tried removing the barlow and doing a direct projection on the CCD?

Hopefully you got it from a reputable seller since that should be covered under warranty.

Best of luck with it.


Edit: just had a thought. You say "the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat" Do you mean the focus for a sharp image is different on one ocular vs the other (as in left vs right eye)?
If that is the case:
A)
Usually there is a diopter compensation on the left eye that needs to be adjusted to the user (usually by rotating the eyepiece). In that case it would look as if the sample was not laying flat on the bed and tilting it would compensate.
B)
Camera compensation path as mentioned in B)  above is out of adjustment.

[Imran333]

The camera is always on at the same time as the lens, there's no level and even without Barlow lens the image seems  tilted upwards, the camera image doesn't seem as badly tilted as through the eye pieces, I've bought a 1/2ctv lens which has improved the image as the image before was small but now it's bigger but the problem I have now i can't focus the camera and eye pieces at the same time, if one is focused then the other isn't and through the eye pieces it looks like the pcb board is not lying flat , the bottom end looks flat and the top end of pcb looks raised at 90 degree angle, and if I tilt microscope then only way to make it look flat is if I tilt microscope at a crazy angle which makes it unusable

[thinkfat]

I have a hard time understanding what you mean to describe. Can you not stick the camera into one of the eyepiece sockets (without the okular) and show a screenshot of that picture so that one understands what you're seeing?

[plurn]

Protractor to show angles so we can all be talking about the same thing.

[SteveyG]

I'm confused with this as the image on the monitor in your picture looks correct 

[Imran333]

I don't have the correct adaptor to put camera in eye pieces hole and it seems the pcb board is lying at 120 degree angle even though it's lying flat, I've included picture from the camera but it looks ok through the camera compared to eye pieces, I've also added a picture of my phone showing roughly what angle the pcb looks like through the eye pieces

[Brumby]

I'd like to see a photo (or two) taken from different angles of your setup, showing the microscope and the board.

I'm interested in all the angles of things.

[Psi]

Sadly it sounds like one of the optical parts on one side has moved in shipping.

I've seen optical issue before when people get microscopes delivered using EMS shipping.
EMS handling is quite rough.
There's a reason why the more popular microscope shops on aliexpress only offer DHL shipping for microscopes.

If the problem is some optics that have come unglued then it's probably quite fixable.
Just need to find/watch some disassembly videos, get some gloves and carefully take it apart to find the part that has moved. 
Given that only 1 side has the issue it shouldn't be too hard to see the problem because you can compared it to the other good side.
But i wouldn't do this until you have talked to the company you bought it from.
I have found china sellers respond better when you give them photo or video evidence of an issue.
It shows them you actually do have an issue and are not trying to trick them.
Can you record a video on your phone holding it up to each eye pieces in a way that makes the problem visible.


For a easy non-destructive first check you could lift out the two eye pieces and look into each side with a flashlight.
See if you can notice anything different between each side.

Note that trinocular microscopes have 3 sets of optics, so an issue is likely only on 1 of the 3 optical paths.

Also, if you want to see more width in the camera view you will need to buy a x0.5 lens for the camera stalk.
You can go all the way to x0.3 for even more view but you will see black at the 4 corners.
0.5 is pretty common. For mine the lens is a "SZMC TV 1/2" but i dunno if that will fit your one

[Mechatrommer]

Sadly it sounds like one of the optical parts on one side has moved in shipping.
I've seen optical issue before when people get microscopes delivered using EMS shipping.
EMS handling is quite rough.

it depends on the luck or unluck, not necessarily related to brand service imho. see video... Fedex is a reputable name but if your item got unlucky handled by some moron, then you get what you get. this type of worker deserve a place in trash recycling facilities. btw, i pointed out the possibility of optics misalignment during shipping earlier but the OP keep running around the room in panic while asking and answering questions. just maybe it seems he is unable to do whats beyond the operating manual. ymmv.

[Psi]

yeah, but Fedex/DHL/UPS are occasional bad.
EMS china is almost always bad.

Don't get me wrong, i use EMS china quite a bit, i just wouldn't ship anything made of glass using them.

[Mechatrommer]

EMS china is almost always bad.

i can say 90-99% of items i received through EMS (China) arrived in good shape (one arrived today UT210E with no bubble wrapping as usually seller's did). only maybe 1-10% got some dent on exterior, but i never got up to a disfunctional item. i dont backup EMS, but yes this thing is possible, even on brand name courier. this can be courier's (EMS) fault, or the manufacturer's fault for designing inadequate strengh product. few months ago i bought  heavily used Dynascope from USA by Ebay Global Shipping, the seller did warn me about the risk of broken glass due to the distance the item has to travel and asked me to cancel order, i told him i will take the risk so he did send and the item arrived with no broken glass nor bumped bits. if it arrived in broken state then i have to accept the truth but i guess i was lucky.

[Psi]

Most items can be kicked around or dropped in their box and get no damage.
A microscope on the other hand cannot.

[Imran333]

I will check and get back and I do have Barlow lens for scope and szmc tv 1/2 but the problem is I can't get the camera and eye pieces to focus at the same time and both eye pieces the pcb board looks the same through each eye piece

[Imran333]

I'd like to see a photo (or two) taken from different angles of your setup, showing the microscope and the board.

I'm interested in all the angles of things.

I will post pictures of setup and maybe take the microscope apart a and see if anything looks out of line