New toy(?) scope Fnirsi DPOX180H, claimed 180MHz/500MSps (May 2023)

[battlecoder]

I know what you mean and it can be put that way.
It's a bit like asking whether the bottle is half empty or half full.
I also find that it works quite well up to 50MHz and a less well above that, but that's enough for me at this price.
Nevertheless, I can check with this cheap device on which frequency a FM test transmitter works (88.0 MHz - 108.0... MHz) and you can't do that with every toyscope.
It also does not need 3 volts at the input for that, like my AWG with "frequency meter", but a few millivolts are enough.
I find that for its price it is quite a useful device and it does not annoy me.

The Fnirsi costs at least $40 more and that is quite a difference at this price level. Almost not comparable.

I definitely think the Zeeweii is a wonderful device for its price. The FNIRSI looks a lot more polished and had a tons of extras, but I still reach for the zeeweii because it's a lot more consistent, and doesn't have weird bugs and bizarre implementation of standard features like cursors.


Btw, back to the FNIRSI, Is anyone here getting extremely inaccurate Vpp measurements? Especially on x10? Like, even on low frequency waveforms, the moment I set it to 10x the Vpp measurements are not matching. I originally thought it was a difference in probe loading, but even probing a properly terminated 50 ohm source gives inconsistent measurements. The error is at best 10%, at worse like 30%. Switching to better probes gives me better results, but as I keep increasing the frequency the error keeps getting bigger and bigger.  A 1V sine wave (that I've verified with other scopes that remains constant 1V in the 1-60Mhz range), even with a decent set of probes the FNIRSI would measure anywhere between 900mV to 1.25V depending on the frequency, sometimes increasing, sometimes decreasing.

It would be great if this scope had gain calibration, because I suspect that it's not only the included probes that are extremely non-linear, but also the scope (Incidentally, guess what budget portable oscilloscope DOES have a gain calibration procedure and doesn't give me weird unexplainable amplitude measurements  )

[csuhi17]

it produces similar results for me.
Thanks for sharing, I didn't even notice that.

[battlecoder]

it produces similar results for me.
Thanks for sharing, I didn't even notice that.

Well I'm glad I'm not alone in this, but it sucks that it happens. I would understand if the device started losing accuracy closer to the bandwidth limit, but discrepancies are all over the place even in low frequency signals.

[csuhi17]

I made a measurement error.
Sig gen FY6800 60MHz

In the case when the polarity is measured correctly (as when using the BNC to BNC cable), the measured voltage between the two scopes is less than 5%. 1V measured from 0-60MHz.

If, on the other hand, I want to swap the two measurement points, that is, I connect the GND of the AWG to the input of the oscilloscope.
I connect the output of AWG to the GND of the oscilloscope.
Then the voltage level changes a lot and fluctuates.

It could be something on my side, I haven't figured out what's causing it yet.

I measured it directly on the BNC output of the AWG (without converter and extension) with the 10x test lead provided for the STO2202C, and it produced the same result.

[jld071]

Hello,
I'm also looking for a portable oscilloscope and I'm hesitating between the fnirsi dpox180h and the zeewei dso2512g...

For what I can see, as a newbie, after reading tons of videos and forum posts, the Fnirsi dpox180h seems interesting on the paper but I haven't yet seen  great examples of its phophor functionality for diagnosis or analysis.
A lot of the online content is mainly about all the bugs and inaccuracy of that scope : not very reassuring, even if the firmware is evoluting there might be some hardware limitations due to the system by itself.

The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress  )

So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?

Thanks in advance 

[csuhi17]

Don't expect much from them, because these are not +2000 USD scopes.

I only need this primarily to measure with it first, if something is suspicious (so as not to burn the larger scope), or if I know that it can also serve me.

There is a cure for the inaccuracy seen in the videos.
two capacitors in the first series are of bad value, if you manage to buy them, you will have to replace them so that they don't measure stupidly at low frequencies.

Both are 500MS, only the fnirsi has a slightly nicer picture, it is more visible.

Apart from the software errors that are being repaired, and the fact that I think a basic function is missing, it can be a good choice.

I haven't used it live yet, I've only tested it at the table.
.

[Aldo22]

The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress  )

You can sometimes find promotions at the Zeeweii store as well, so it's hard to tell with the price difference.
Anyway, today the devices cost at the respective "Official Stores" (which I would recommend, because they do answer questions.):
ZEEWEII DSO2512G : $86.40
FNIRSI DPOX180H : $127.86
That's a price difference of 41.46. So the difference is almost half of the zeeweii price.
Maybe you don't mind the price, but it should be clear that for that difference, you can expect a slightly "better" device.
Whether the Fnirsi is really significantly better "in the field", I can not tell.
If you're just sending it ahead to save the expensive scope from burning like csuhi17, I'd go with the Zeewei simply because it's cheaper.

[battlecoder]

Hello,
I'm also looking for a portable oscilloscope and I'm hesitating between the fnirsi dpox180h and the zeewei dso2512g...

For what I can see, as a newbie, after reading tons of videos and forum posts, the Fnirsi dpox180h seems interesting on the paper but I haven't yet seen  great examples of its phophor functionality for diagnosis or analysis.
A lot of the online content is mainly about all the bugs and inaccuracy of that scope : not very reassuring, even if the firmware is evoluting there might be some hardware limitations due to the system by itself.

The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress  )

So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?

Thanks in advance 

The DPO180H "looks" a lot better than the 2512G, with a sleeker design, sexier screen, phosphor trace goodness, 20Mhz bandwidth limiting, temperature-colored trace, etc. But none of that has actually been of use to me. I've been unable to use it to measure *anything* correctly out of the box, unlike the Zeeweii, which has actually been useful from day 1. With discounts you can get it very close to the price of the Zeeweii, BUT on arrival you should be ready to AT LEAST, do the following:
1.- Change the 2 AC blocking SMD capacitors in the front end.
2- Buy better probes. The ones included are abysmal

Now, the DPO180H has the advantage of a better frequency range. I've said this already but I wouldn't use the 2512G for anything above 50Mhz unless you are only "checking for a pulse" on your circuit.  That unit also requires you to overclock it in order to barely reach the claimed bandwidth (at which point you can sort-of see a 120Mhz waveform, but forget about making any measurement on it). The DPO180H on the other hand doesn't require any fiddling to display a waveform up to, more or less, the claimed bandwidth. Both are supposedly 500MSa/s, so I suspect that the frontend implementation and the "processor" in both units is what makes the difference in their performance, but that's just a guess.

Other Advantages of the DPO: Being able to capture a waveform and then use it directly in the function generator is a huge plus.
Other disadvantages: Shorter battery life, Extremely menu-heavy UI; Everything is done through menus, unlike the Zeeweii that has numerous (somewhat intuitive, once you learn them) key shortcuts.

So, if you need high frequency response, or any of the fancy features of the DPO, and you are willing to either deal with the bugs or wait for fixes, and you are also OK with spending a bit more time and money fixing the caps and changing the probes, then the DPO180H is what I'd recommend.

If you don't need to measure anything >50Mhz, and you want something that is practical to use, with longer battery life, and you are OK with a rather lackluster UI and crude trace, then the Zeeweii would be my recommendation.

[battlecoder]

I made a measurement error.
Sig gen FY6800 60MHz

In the case when the polarity is measured correctly (as when using the BNC to BNC cable), the measured voltage between the two scopes is less than 5%. 1V measured from 0-60MHz.

If, on the other hand, I want to swap the two measurement points, that is, I connect the GND of the AWG to the input of the oscilloscope.
I connect the output of AWG to the GND of the oscilloscope.
Then the voltage level changes a lot and fluctuates.

It could be something on my side, I haven't figured out what's causing it yet.

I measured it directly on the BNC output of the AWG (without converter and extension) with the 10x test lead provided for the STO2202C, and it produced the same result.

I haven't done the experiment of switching GND and signal, but I did try with a straight coax connection (no probe) last night, and there was still a bit of a gain error, but it was a lot more acceptable than the measurements with the provided probes.
Now, just to highlight how garbage the included probes are (and incidentally, to also show the discrepancy in vertical gain at different sensitivity levels) ; this is supposedly a 1Vpp sine wave:



At 200mV per division, the oscilloscope shows 1.25Vpp, which is a 25% error. Switching to better probes, the amplitude reported at this sensitivity level was almost exactly 1V, so, if you are using a good probe, at this vertical scale, things would have been great.



If you change the sensitivity to 500mV, there's a 34% error (with the included probes). Using a better probe was showing something like 1.15V, which is somewhat more acceptable, and kinda reasonable for a waveform that is using just 2 divisions, vertically.

So my conclusions from this are that the included probes (at least the ones I got) are not making the scope any favors so you must change them if they are as bad as this, but also, it would be great if there was a way of adjusting the gain per sensitivity level (like on the Zeeweii) because I don't think they are being that well calibrated from factory.

[Nik]

More fun with FNIRSIS internal signal generator. I ended up with a code that just creates a signal inside the generator if it is connected as drive D without any other manual steps.
Code is here:
https://github.com/nik1nik1/SaveSignaltoFNIRSIGenerator
Attached are screenshots of a PWM sine that it makes which looks okay at low freq. At 2MHz scope makes something that resemble a sine out of it thanks to its input capacitors .

I played with Tetronix generator and Audacity Audio editor and found that it is difficult to use them with FNIRSI and they have limitations as it requires a lot of manual steps and just can not do some things rather than simple ones.

Have fun

[jld071]

thanks csuhi17, Aldo22 and battlecodder for all your informations and advices 

Not easy to make a choice , but I can feel more potential in the firnsi, and I already have two good probes from an analog Hitachi oscilloscope, so I can easilly go break the warranty and replace the two capacitors 
Hopefully the firmware will still evolve , and the phosphor will reveal its full power 

Also, even if for the moment I will use this device for check/repair audio systems, power supplies, home automation,  I 'm aiming to work on systems where the higher frequency bandwith will be appreciated.

By the way, in term of functionality, there's no such persistence mode on the firnsi dpox180h compare to the zeeweii dso2512g ? (as stated by ptluis who seems to use this regularly).

[battlecoder]

By the way, in term of functionality, there's no such persistence mode on the firnsi dpox180h compare to the zeeweii dso2512g ? (as stated by ptluis who seems to use this regularly).

That's correct. There's no persistence mode on the FNIRSI. I guess the phosphor display works a bit like a very short persistence mode, but it's nowhere near as useful as a 1s or infinite persistence, which are both available on the Zeeweii.

[Nik]

Derived 90 MHz out of Fnirsi's built-in generator by using custom capture with hi and lows. 150 repeating hi-lo at 600kHz makes 90MHz. Anything higher collapses waveform.  That capture can be used to get frequencies from 20MHz to 90MHz. I tried to attach it, but the site seems has some issue with attachments today.
Not sure what is wrong with the site attachments. It throws the error invalid_filename upon uploading a file with any name, eg: 90 MHz.png

https://youtube.com/shorts/4zUMhxtxrIc?si=gP8Y1fB07r4z2NgP

That capture was generated with the software code that I wrote.
https://github.com/nik1nik1/SaveSignaltoFNIRSIGenerator/blob/main/README.md
I also added few AM captures into generator.

[PlainName]

So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?

I haven't tried either of the scopes mentioned here, but my experience is:

Fnirsi: Got one of their cheaper scopes for on-the-go fault finding (like, digging inside the control box for garden gates and similar). It had weird bugs (or maybe features) and I hated it so much I gave it away for nothing here on EEVBlog.

Zeewei: Replaced the Fnirsi with a DSO3D12. Didn't expect much but quite impressed with it. Tried a few things to make sure it wasn't going to flake out like the Fnirsi did and it coped well. It is exactly what I bought the Fnirsi for, but a bit better, and for the price I am very happy with it.

Have to say that it would take a lot to have my buy any Fnirsi scope again. Your, and others, mileage may vary.

[csuhi17]

I can't give you a suggestion.
This is a rather buggy scope, if it is fixed it can be used for basic tasks.

I only do it as a hobby and less often because of my work, and my knowledge is quite limited.
If I were to buy a scope for work, I would definitely not choose this as my main scope.
Only for smaller, not so important tasks, and I measure with this first so that I don't ruin the more expensive ones if I make a big mistake. 

If the persistence property is written into the program, I think it will not be as we expect, since even a single waveform is already multi-color, it shows only the middle of the signal.  Even if you set persistence, the last displayed waveform will cover the one behind it.

[Serhii74]

I don't have this problem until 20 MHz. And at a higher frequency the generator does not allow me.
Maybe you didn't switch to 10x mode on the probe? As the manual for the oscilloscope and probes advises, at frequencies above 5 MHz, switch to 10x.
On the attached screenshots, on the first channel there is a probe from the scope of delivery of the oscilloscope, on the second channel there is a direct probe without a BNC-BNC attenuator.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Apparently the new housing is sold separately:



 

[ptluis]

Apparently the new housing is sold separately:



 

Instead of cases they should solve serious problems this scope has. In the meantime it's the same "marvellous" piece of unfinished technology. save your money.

[RAPo]

I've got a chance to test the new case.
I must say this is an improvement.

The buttons are not as stiff as the original version.

The probes are more accessible to insert if you have fat fingers (like I have).

Of course, the inner workings have not changed.

[ptluis]

I've got a chance to test the new case.
I must say this is an improvement.

The buttons are not as stiff as the original version.

The probes are more accessible to insert if you have fat fingers (like I have).

Of course, the inner workings have not changed.

 set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty

press Auto

Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch

Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the glitches on the waveform 

Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)

It's also seen at 0.4, 1.8, 3.6, 5.4, 7.2, 9kHz and many more flavours

New dress, same old .... 

Fnirsi simply don't care about solving important bugs, instead they launch a new collection of dresses for the same doll 

[RAPo]

I'll know.  But I want to be honest, my first complains was about connecting the probes and the stiff buttons. The new case is much better regarding these points.

[battlecoder]

I ended up buying a set of P2200 probes that "fixed" the accuracy problems I was having. It was literally driving me mad that at higher frequencies the amplitude would lose accuracy so wildly. As I've been using it more frequently, I've come to appreciate the instrument considerably more. Given a decent set of probes it's as useful as the Zeweeii but with a higher bandwidth and extra features (ok, and some weird bugs and quirks, but it's not like the Zeweeii is hassle-free). At least I'm no longer losing hair because the measurements don't match my other instruments.

Now, It would be great to make a "wave management" software to backup, restore, view and export captured waveforms (to CSV for example). Maybe to also convert regular wave captures into signals for the frequency generator and vice-versa

As it is right now, even the simple act of creating backups of your waves and restoring them (with a different filename/number) cannot be done without modifying the files, because apparently some bytes inside the files need to match the filename. A program to take care of all of this would be fantastic.

Once I finish with other projects I could tackle that, assuming that @Nik is not already working on it 

[Hugo145]

Hello,
I have bought this scope to debug tube amplifiers so I'm mainly interested in audio frequencies 20Hz-20kHz and high voltages 300V+.

1. Does anyone know whether DPOX180H has AC coupling capacitor before or after the 1Meg resistor? As I understand, if coupling capacitor is before the 1Meg resistor then regardless of probe attenuation 1:10 or 1:100 in AC mode this capacitor will see the full 300V+ voltage which it is not rated for.
2. If I replace these capacitor (as suggested in this thread earlier) with 100nF 400V rated ones, will this work? Or is there another circuitry inside the scope that sees the full voltage in AC mode?
3. Is it possible to replace the SMD capacitor with non-SMD leaded one? Or will this introduce inductance to the circuit and make readings inaccurate?

Thanks you,
Igor.

[Hugo145]

Does anyone know whether DPOX180H has AC coupling capacitor before or after the 1Meg resistor? As I understand, if coupling capacitor is before the 1Meg resistor then regardless of probe attenuation 1:10 or 1:100 in AC mode this capacitor will see the full 300V+ voltage which it is not rated for.

For anyone curious, I opened the scope and measured myself.
The 1Meg resistor to ground (actually multiple resistors in series) is the first thing signal sees when entering the scope. Therefore with 1:10 probe attenuation it should be safe to use in AC coupling mode.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Dave reviewed the unit with the revised case: