New Tektronix TBS2000 oscilloscopes

[Faith]

Element 14 seems to be doing a big promotion of these scopes. They describe them as basic, and everything looks fine for a basic scope..... until you reach the prices.

It looks like they have taken an Owon scope, added some courseware features, the Tek logo and a higher price tag, and will now market it to those Western universities with adequate budgets.

Yep. And one very big issue I have with Tektronix is how they are not very transparent with pricing on their website.

My local Tektronix website doesn't show prices for the TBS2000 at all, for example. I need to go to the US website for that. And even in the US website you cannot see the prices of options without creating an account. Really?

Times like this just make me go back to www.keysight.com where I can see the price of each scope with each option along with a list of all on-going promotions.

I may not always agree with Keysight pricing but at least they're upfront about it.

More manufacturers should learn from this.

[bg8up]

Board details...

[nctnico]

Any hints on the boards about who is the OEM? The large Xilinx Kintex FPGA seems odd because Tektronix likes to use ASICs in their scopes.

[Hydrawerk]

Board details...

Any photos of the power supply PCB?

[snoopy]

Some big companies just loose it.

From innovators, they become second followers.

From second followers, they finally land below Chinese manufacturers.

We have seen this happen at many American companies.

Tek had lost it a long time ago, long before when the Chinese started to invade the western T&M markets. Tek pretty much stopped innovating when the DSO replaced the analog scope as general purpose scope. It's like they made DSOs only because they were forced to, and would have happily made analog scopes instead. HP on the other hand, while not being overly successful with analog scopes, embraced DSOs and made the best of it (and LeCroy was pretty much with DSOs right from the start).

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics. I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it. It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware . Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

cheers

[tautech]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics. I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it. It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware .

You mean like a WS3000, the HW of which is made by Siglent.

Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

And nor should it be. 

[snoopy]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics. I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it. It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware .

You mean like a WS3000, the HW of which is made by Siglent.

Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

And nor should it be. 

So siglent should have a scope like this ?? I only see entry level scopes on their website.

[tautech]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics. I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it. It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware .

You mean like a WS3000, the HW of which is made by Siglent.

Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

And nor should it be. 

So siglent should have a scope like this ?? I only see entry level scopes on their website.

I wouldn't call the SDS2000X series entry level, some might. 
I'd also be quite confident it'd find your problem with it's 160k wfps, 2Gsa/s sampling and 140 Mpts memory depth.
That's the best they have to offer the western markets at this time.........unless you count the Siglent made LeCroy.

[snoopy]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics. I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it. It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware .

You mean like a WS3000, the HW of which is made by Siglent.

Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

And nor should it be. 

So siglent should have a scope like this ?? I only see entry level scopes on their website.

I wouldn't call the SDS2000X series entry level, some might. 
I'd also be quite confident it'd find your problem with it's 160k wfps, 2Gsa/s sampling and 140 Mpts memory depth.
That's the best they have to offer the western markets at this time.........unless you count the Siglent made LeCroy.

It's still a lightweight in terms of bandwidth. Not much better than my Hantek. No good for looking at SDRAM signals. Like I said once you go above 500MHz or 1GHz forget about the low end scopes and be prepared to pay bucks. There is currently no free lunch when it comes to raw scope performance. If I was tektronix I probably wouldn't waste a lot of time in the low-end scope market. This has been flogged to death and there is probably very little profit in it. Having said that these TBS scopes look like they have some serious hardware so tek is probably limiting the feature-set on purpose.

cheers

[Wuerstchenhund]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition

No, it wasn't. It certainly was one of the better scopes back then but with only 500kpts per ch (in single ch mode), only basic triggers, simple maths and 10kpts FFT (and a floppy as only local storage medium) it was far from "way ahead of the competition". Other manufacturers already offered 1Ghz 4GSa/s with up to 8Mpts (4Mpts/Ch), advanced FFT (up to 6Mpts), maths and analysis tools, advanced triggers and local storage on a hard disk.

The thing is that in the subsequent years Tek's products haven't really progressed a lot, while other scope manufacturers' products have. The result was that Tek was being left behind even further, until today where pretty much no-one buys Tek unless forced or having a mind being stuck in the analog days.

and today is still way ahead of the low-end scope market in some of its performance metrics.

Only in some areas (BW and sample rate), but not in others (memory, FFT, maths performance).

I bought it because I needed a 4ch scope with at least 1GHz bandwidth and 4Gs/s plus 400,000 waveforms/s acquisition rate for runt pulse detection where my low-end 200MHz Hantek just didn't cut it.

Well, it's not difficult for any scope to be better than a Hantek

It appears that once you go above the 500MHz bandwidth this is still dominated by the big names and most of the low end scopes fall by the way side probably because they don't have the expertise and experience to design ultra high sample rate acquisition hardware

Not surprising because B-brands tend to use generic components for their designs, which for most part have to be cheap. Because 'cheap' is the main sales argument people buy B-brands. If they weren't cheaper than a big brand then no-one would buy them.

Also, price is a major factor in the entry-level segment, however further up the ladder other properties like performance, features and reliability & support become more important, so these markets are unlikely to be as receptive to B-brands as the entry-level/hobbyist market.

Rigol may have a 1GHz scope but checkout the pricing. No longer the sub $1000 mark is it

But it still performs like a scope in the sub-$1000 mark, plus even roughly 5 years it still suffers from major bugs (like ETS not working). Even without the bugs, considering that the $9k DS6104 is still as basic as a DS2000 or DS4000 in terms of functionality, it's pretty much a sad joke.

So siglent should have a scope like this ?? I only see entry level scopes on their website.

I wouldn't call the SDS2000X series entry level, some might. 

The SDS2000X *is* an entry-level scope, simple as that. It's BW, performance, features and price clearly position it in the middle of the entry-level segment.

Siglent has only one scope that isn't entry-level, and that is the SDS3000 (which is lower mid-range)

[snoopy]

I have recently acquired a Tek TDS784A and nothing could be further from the truth. In its day(1995) it was way ahead of the competition

No, it wasn't. It certainly was one of the better scopes back then but with only 500kpts per ch (in single ch mode), only basic triggers, simple maths and FFT (and a floppy as only local storage medium) it was far from "way ahead of the competition". Other manufacturers already offered 1Ghz 4GSa/s with up to 4Mpts/Ch, advanced FFT and maths (plus a ton of other analysis tools), advanced triggers and local storage on a hard disk.

The thing is that in the subsequent years Tek's products haven't really progressed a lot, while other scope manufacturers' products have. The result was that Tek was being left behind even further, until today where pretty much no-one buys Tek unless forced or having a mind being stuck in the analog days.

Basic triggers ?? Are you kidding me.

It's got "InstaVu" which at the time put it way ahead of the competition in catching infrequent events such as runt pulses, glitches setup and hold time violations. Way ahead of its time which saw Agilent and Lecroy desperately trying to play catch-up. Sure it doesn't have lots of the bells and whistles you get in modern scopes that most will probably never use but then this was a scope of the time and still is relevant in many ways. My Hantek has got lots of these bells and whistles and I find that I just don't use most of them in my day to day work. Your siglent and rigol scopes won't be-able to be used to diagnose problems with high speed memory timing issues because they just aint got the bandwidth no matter how many bells and whistles they offer which all boils down to the firmware running on the thing. When you need the horsepower to diagnose fast signals looking for value for money in entry level scopes is just a moot point IMO.

cheers

[Wuerstchenhund]

Basic triggers ?? Are you kidding me.

No, I'm not. You got:

- Edge
- Logic
- Pulse (includes glitch, runt, width, slew rate)
- Video (PAL/SECAM/NTSC, FlexFormat) if you've got Option 05

That's it.

Even back then that wasn't exactly earth shattering. Other scopes also gave you exclusion trigger, droput triggers, interval trigger and so on.

It's got "InstaVu" which at the time put it way ahead of the competition in catching infrequent events such as runt pulses, glitches setup and hold time violations. Way ahead of its time which saw Agilent and Lecroy desperately trying to play catch-up.

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. When your TDS came out HP already had its own high waveform rate architecture (MegaZoom) on the market - faster, fully automatic, and without the drawbacks of Tek's InstaVu mode (like the lack of measurements). What's really sad is that the same limitations are even found on modern Tek scopes like the MDO3k Series, which just shows how stale their technology is.

LeCroy back then already had the 9300 Series, which was vastly more powerful than any DSO Tek came up with. Like any high end scope it lacked the high waveform rates but its advanced SmartTriggers made more than up for that. Plus you got more memory (like, a lot), and what were back then the most advanced maths and analysis tools on the market. End of 1996 they then came up with the LC Series, up to 1.5Ghz and 8GSa/s plus an even more powerful architecture, plus an extension of the already very long list of available options.

There wasn't anything in the TDS Series which HP or LeCroy were "desperate to catch up" to  - that's really jutst wishful thinking on your part.

Sure it doesn't have lots of the bells and whistles you get in modern scopes that most will probably never use but then this was a scope of the time and still is relevant in many ways.

Well, it also lacked many of the features you got in scopes from other brands at the time. Which pretty much contradicts your "far ahead of the competition" statement.

My Hantek has got lots of these bells and whistles

Actually, it doesn't. Hantek's scopes are as basic as it can get, really. Just have a look at the current crop of entry-level scopes, like the GW Instek GDS-2000E, or even the Rigol scopes.

Your siglent won't be-able to be used to diagnose problems with high speed memory timing because it just aint got the bandwidth.

Not sure what you're talking about as I don't own any Siglent scopes.

Anyways, as someone who has used the TDS Series as well as the various HP scopes extensively back then when they were current I can assure you that the TDS784A was in no way "ahead of the competition". It was a good scope, aimed at engineers converting from analog scopes, but nothing extraordinary.

Look, I know that coming from a Hantek a TDS700 must look like a tool from another planet, but if you think that back then it was extraordinary you're deluding yourself.

Tek's problem was and still is that they saw the DSO as another form of the analog scope, while HP and especially LeCroy understood that the benefit of the digital scopes lies in its analysis capabilities. Tek never made that switch, and this, reflected in their portfolio of lacklustre products, is the reason why they are trailing the big brands and increasingly also the B-brands.

[snoopy]

Basic triggers ?? Are you kidding me.

No, I'm not. You got:

- Edge
- Logic
- Pulse (includes glitch, runt, width, slew rate)
- Video (PAL/SECAM/NTSC, FlexFormat) if you've got Option 05

That's it.

Even back then that wasn't exactly earth shattering. Other scopes also gave you exclusion trigger, droput triggers, interval trigger and so on.

It's got "InstaVu" which at the time put it way ahead of the competition in catching infrequent events such as runt pulses, glitches setup and hold time violations. Way ahead of its time which saw Agilent and Lecroy desperately trying to play catch-up.

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. When your TDS came out HP already had its own high waveform rate architecture (MegaZoom) on the market - faster, fully automatic, and without the drawbacks of Tek's InstaVu mode (like the lack of measurements). What's really sad is that the same limitations are even found on modern Tek scopes like the MDO3k Series, which just shows how stale their technology is.

LeCroy back then already had the 9300 Series, which was vastly more powerful than any DSO Tek came up with. Like any high end scope it lacked the high waveform rates but its advanced SmartTriggers made more than up for that. Plus you got more memory (like, a lot), and what were back then the most advanced maths and analysis tools on the market. End of 1996 they then came up with the LC Series, up to 1.5Ghz and 8GSa/s plus an even more powerful architecture, plus an extension of the already very long list of available options.

There wasn't anything in the TDS Series which HP or LeCroy were "desperate to catch up" to  - that's really jutst wishful thinking on your part.

Sure it doesn't have lots of the bells and whistles you get in modern scopes that most will probably never use but then this was a scope of the time and still is relevant in many ways.

Well, it also lacked many of the features you got in scopes from other brands at the time. Which pretty much contradicts your "far ahead of the competition" statement.

My Hantek has got lots of these bells and whistles

Actually, it doesn't. Hantek's scopes are as basic as it can get, really. Just have a look at the current crop of entry-level scopes, like the GW Instek GDS-2000E, or even the Rigol scopes.

Your siglent won't be-able to be used to diagnose problems with high speed memory timing because it just aint got the bandwidth.

Not sure what you're talking about as I don't own any Siglent scopes.

Anyways, as someone who has used the TDS Series as well as the various HP scopes extensively back then when they were current I can assure you that the TDS784A was in no way "ahead of the competition". It was a good scope, aimed at engineers converting from analog scopes, but nothing extraordinary.

Look, I know that coming from a Hantek a TDS700 must look like a tool from another planet, but if you think that back then it was extraordinary you're deluding yourself.

Tek's problem was and still is that they saw the DSO as another form of the analog scope, while HP and especially LeCroy understood that the benefit of the digital scopes lies in its analysis capabilities. Tek never made that switch, and this, reflected in their portfolio of lacklustre products, is the reason why they are trailing the big brands and increasingly also the B-brands.

you forgot Pattern, State and Setup/Hold time violation triggers so that was not all

In 97 I worked for a company that bought a whole lot of agilent scopes. Can't remember the models but with CRT green screens. Should have seen the single shot trigger  Just a pile of incoherent dots on the screen. No sinx/x interpolation etc. It was woeful but it wasn't a cheap scope either. Perhaps I missed a setting or something but unless it was a repetitive waveform it was pretty much useless on high sample rates. Must have been an entry level scope

Hantek does have a whole pile of measurement functionality but I only use a handful of them. These days scopes seem to be a lot about one-upmanship on who can have more measurements modes than the other even when you'll only use a handful of them.

I need raw scope performance and these entry level scopes won't deliver it no matter how many measurements you've got on it. Let me know when your cheap scopes can sample at 4Gs/s with 1Ghz bandwidth and I'll be ready to order one because that is what I need right now

cheers

[Wuerstchenhund]

Basic triggers ?? Are you kidding me.

No, I'm not. You got:

- Edge
- Logic
- Pulse (includes glitch, runt, width, slew rate)
- Video (PAL/SECAM/NTSC, FlexFormat) if you've got Option 05

That's it.

Even back then that wasn't exactly earth shattering. Other scopes also gave you exclusion trigger, droput triggers, interval trigger and so on.

you forgot Pattern, State and Setup/Hold time violation triggers so that was not all

Those are part of the Logic triggers (and were available in competitor scopes, too), so yes that really was all.

In 97 I worked for a company that bought a whole lot of agilent scopes. Can't remember the models but with CRT green screens. Should have seen the single shot trigger  Just a pile of incoherent dots on the screen. No sinx/x interpolation etc. It was woeful but it wasn't a cheap scope either. Perhaps I missed a setting or something but unless it was a repetitive waveform it was pretty much useless on high sample rates. Must have been an entry level scope

Who knows. In 1997 just came out with the first Infiniium scope (54800A Series, Windows95 based) which had LCD, as had the 5452xC and 5454xC upper entry-level scopes.

The HP 54600 Series had green CRTs, and was still sold back then. They were indeed entry-level scopes (replacements for analog scopes), and the series also contained some sampling scopes which indeed were useless for non-repetitive waveforms. However, the real-time scopes were actually pretty good, and it's standard set of triggers worked generally very well.

[Hantek] does have a whole pile of measurement functionality but I only use a handful of them. These days scopes seem to be a lot about one-upmanship on who can have more measurements modes than the other even when you'll only use a handful of them.

It depends on what you do, but if you don't even use the functionality in your Hantek then it doesn't matter much which big brand scope you got as they all should perform notably better.

I need raw scope performance and these entry level scopes won't deliver it no matter how many measurements you've got on it. Let me know when your cheap scopes can sample at 4Gs/s with 1Ghz bandwidth and I'll be ready to order one because that is what I need right now

I can't comment much on the performance of modern-day entry-level scopes as my experience with them is negligible (and my main scopes at work and at home are high-end scopes), but surely that depends on your definition of "cheap", really.

The cheapest new 1Ghz scope is probably the Rigol DS6104 at $9k, but as I said that scope sucks because it's pretty much a buggy entry-level scope with larger BW. The cheapest new 1Ghz big brand scope I'm aware off at the moment is the LeCroy WaveSurfer 10, and this is already $10k.

There's also the Siglent SDS3104 but that is only sold in China and is probably even more expensive.

None of these price figures are anywhere near "entry level", though. In any case the 2nd hand market offers far more attractive choices.

[snoopy]

Like I said once you go above 500MHz bandwidth the price jumps up dramatically. The front end acquisition is what adds to the overall cost.

I watched this video on a comparison between the Siglent and Rigol scopes and it appears that the siglent firmware is very buggy whilst the rigol maybe slower in some modes it seems to operate much more reliably. Both scopes achieve update rates from a few hundred to nearly 50,000 at different time-base settings and that seems to be the upper ceiling in terms of performance. If most of these scope features are just firmware then perhaps Tek can step up to the plate with its new low-end scope platforms

[tautech]

I watched this video on a comparison between the Siglent and Rigol scopes and it appears that the siglent firmware is very buggy whilst the rigol maybe slower in some modes it seems to operate much more reliably. Both scopes achieve update rates from a few hundred to nearly 50,000 at different time-base settings and that seems to be the upper ceiling in terms of performance.

That's the problem with OLD videos, they're well out of date. 
You use the brand names as generalizations of buginess and/or performance but do be aware that this is an ever changing situation and if you were to do some homework you'll find in the Siglent FW changelogs most identified bugs have been addressed.
There's much more up to date info in various threads of this forum including links to #'s of FW updates that have any bugs at much very lower levels than when these models were initially released.

The Siglent SDS2k has been superseded by the SDS2kX and even the vid is showing the SDS2000 with an old version of FW but the new V2 FW has been out for nearly 12 months:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/
Most notable change was an increase of memory depth from 35 to 70 Mpts.

SDS2000 waveform update rates:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/msg810575/#msg810575

SDS2kX thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/

SDS2kX teardown
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-864-siglent-sds2000x-series-oscilloscope-teardown/

We've hijacked this thread enough, feel free to jump into any of the other threads linked to continue this discussion. 

[bg8up]

Power distribution PCB is comming

[Wuerstchenhund]

I watched this video on a comparison between the Siglent and Rigol scopes and it appears that the siglent firmware is very buggy whilst the rigol maybe slower in some modes it seems to operate much more reliably.

I actually had a Siglent SDS2204 once (bought it for a simple task), and yes it was a bug-ridden misery because Siglent was unable to fix the firmware in the almost 2 years the scope had been on the market back then    Rumors go the later firmware got better but I didn't stick around to wait for it. Siglent makes good hardware but they seem to be inept when it comes to software.

The Rigol DS2000 has less bugs in the video but only because it came out much sooner than the SDS2000 and the majority of bugs had been fixed since then. But as with the Siglent, apparently it wasn't all joy and laughter when the Rigol came out, because Rigol also tends to release gear in an immature state.

Which made me decide to rather buy 2nd hand big brand gear (except Tek ) than anything from the Chinese B-brands.

Both scopes achieve update rates from a few hundred to nearly 50,000 at different time-base settings and that seems to be the upper ceiling in terms of performance. If most of these scope features are just firmware then perhaps Tek can step up to the plate with its new low-end scope platforms

They could, and I really wish they would (we could really use another successful big brand in the market to keep Keysight from squeezing it), but I don't think they will. Tek was part of Danaher, which employed their 'Danaher Business System' (DBS) of excessive cost cutting to maximize shareholder value, which has driven out most of Tek's old talent long ago already. And not too long ago the sad rest of Tek was split off into a Danaher spin-off (Fortive), and they seem to stick to the same methodology as Danaher. As the new TBS2000 shows, sadly.

[JPortici]

Rigol also tends to release gear in an immature state.

as this tek wasn't 
in the video from the user who got them at his uni you see that there are knobs that don't do anything yet because functions are yet to be implemented, menus grayed out for the same reason.

i get it, they wanted to have tehe product on the benches for the beginning of school year.

still a big fat 

[snoopy]

Both scopes achieve update rates from a few hundred to nearly 50,000 at different time-base settings and that seems to be the upper ceiling in terms of performance. If most of these scope features are just firmware then perhaps Tek can step up to the plate with its new low-end scope platforms

They could, and I really wish they would (we could really use another successful big brand in the market to keep Keysight from squeezing it), but I don't think they will. Tek was part of Danaher, which employed their 'Danaher Business System' (DBS) of excessive cost cutting to maximize shareholder value, which has driven out most of Tek's old talent long ago already. And not too long ago the sad rest of Tek was split off into a Danaher spin-off (Fortive), and they seem to stick to the same methodology as Danaher. As the new TBS2000 shows, sadly.

That's really quite ashame that Tek has been taken over by bean counters and MBA morons. They may have bitten off more than they can chew by becoming complacent However I believe this latest scope has some decent hardware for the price and they just need to focus on developing the firmware which a lot of these modern scopes are built on. They should get rid of the obsolete gear from their product lime such as the TDS2000 series scopes with their minuscule 2.5k record lengths and focus on getting this one right

cheers

[Wuerstchenhund]

Rigol also tends to release gear in an immature state.

as this tek wasn't 

Indeed that seems to be the case.

in the video from the user who got them at his uni you see that there are knobs that don't do anything yet because functions are yet to be implemented, menus grayed out for the same reason.

i get it, they wanted to have tehe product on the benches for the beginning of school year.

Probably. But you have to see it from Tek's side. Pretty much their only customer base that hasn't run away yet are government contracts and the education market, and these days the former is also very likely to drop Tek in favor of Keysight or LeCroy. The education market is easier to work because most tutors have been out of the industry for a long time (if they even have been in the industry, that is), and their knowledge of the T&M market is often way outdated (if they know Tek then usually from when they still made analog scopes), which means Tek can still benefit from a positive image from the golden haydays there.

Also, the edu market predominantly buys simple scopes, which removes the need for Tek to compete on technology, something they have to do in the industrial market and something they clearly struggle with.

still a big fat 

Yes, but as long as it's good enough to follow the curricula then the customer is unlikely to care.

[EEVblog]

[snoopy]

So Dave are you going to get one to have a peak inside ?

cheers

[EEVblog]

So Dave are you going to get one to have a peak inside ?

Nobody offered me one.

[David Hess]

Well, that answers that.  It is horribly slow and slower than my DSOs which are old enough to drink.