New Siglent SDS1104X calibrated date 17 months old - Is this acceptable?

[kaytemp]

Equipment will be out of calibration within 1 month of purchase date.  Noobie hobbyist just purchased my first ever test equipment from Amazon, Received today Feb 21, 2023 the following:
   Siglent SDS1104X-E Oscilloscope,  calibrated date Sept 16, 2021
   Siglent SDG1032X Waveform Generator, Calibrated Date May 26, 2022
   Siglent SPD3303X-E Power Supply, calibrated date May 31, 2022.
   
The Certificate of Calibration states to allow 180 days after the calibrated date  + the calibration interval to schedule the next calibration date.  So for the Scope, ~March 16 2023 - less than a month from the day I received it.

Although I have virtually no experience with any of this, it doesn't feel right for a piece of equipment to be out of calibration so close to when I get it.  I would think purchasing from the Siglent Store on Amazon would be fresh stock with a fairly recent calibrated date.  Is more than year old calibrated date typical?  Would you question this?  Noob trying to learn.  Thanks.

[ken830]

That's direct from Siglent? Doesn't seem right. I just received a brand new Rigol MSO5072 and the calibration certificate says it was calibrated in early 2019! Saelig agreed to RMA it, but I have to wait who-knows-how-long for them to get a replacement. Strange.

[TomKatt]

My unprofessional hobbyist opinion wonders how much that really matters?  On the surface it does seem like unusually "stale" inventory for a rather popular product, and Amazon surely sells quite a few of these in the US.  But still, would this really affect the accuracy or calibration of the gear?  I think not.  And as a hobbyist, you have no real need to qualify your measurements against a known standard.  Plus, even if it were calibrated last week, not many service companies are going to offer calibration service for such low end consumer models (and even if they did, the cost would likely approach or perhaps even exceed the scope itself).  Most test gear in this range is likely to never see a calibration certification outside the one that comes with it.

Personally, I think the most important thing is that the warranty is applicable.  I suspect you are more likely to request some kind of warranty support over any potential calibration support issue.

I agree it seems a little disappointing, but I'm not sure I would go through the hassle of trying to get a replacement.  But that's just myself.

[Fungus]

"Calibration" doesn't mean much on an oscilloscope because you're supposed to constantly recalibrate it yourself, it has a button for it.

You're supposed to calibrate it to the temperature of your room before any important reading, or if the temperature changes by more than 3 degrees. In some workshops that could mean calibrating it morning/afternoon every day when the sun comes around.

All the certificate shows is that the "self-cal" button worked within spec at the factory. Think of it as a little gold "QC" sticker.

[bdunham7]

In terms of performance, it almost certainly doesn't matter at all.  Warm it up for an hour, run the self-cal and you're good.

OTOH, if they are going to ship all of these with calibration certificates for those who need/want them, then it seems to me that they need to make sure that they get delivered before the 180-day grace period.  After all, if it is supposed to be included in the price, then you didn't get all of what you paid for regardless of whether you need it or not.  This is why some test equipment is sold either with or without a calibration certificate according to the customer's needs and at slightly different prices.  I think somebody owes you a fresh calibration certificate if you want one.

[james_s]

Unless you're using it in something like a ISO certified corporate environment a calibration certificate is irrelevant. For most uses I wouldn't even bother, calibration is not so much about accuracy as it is about filling out the paperwork that says it's as accurate as you claim it to be.

[kaytemp]

That's direct from Siglent? Doesn't seem right. ...

Listing was by the "Siglent Store" and Ships from Amazon, Sold by Amazon.

My unprofessional hobbyist opinion wonders how much that really matters? .... Most test gear in this range is likely to never see a calibration certification outside the one that comes with it.... I agree it seems a little disappointing, but I'm not sure I would go through the hassle of trying to get a replacement..

Agree with everything you say.  Surprised though that I didn't receive a more current unit through Amazon who likely is selling these great scopes every day.

...you're supposed to constantly recalibrate it yourself, it has a button for it...."

Yep, I'll do the self-cal it and get started.

In terms of performance, it almost certainly doesn't matter at all.  Warm it up for an hour, run the self-cal and you're good.

OTOH, if they are going to ship all of these with calibration certificates for those who need/want them, then it seems to me that they need to make sure that they get delivered before the 180-day grace period.  After all, if it is supposed to be included in the price, then you didn't get all of what you paid for regardless of whether you need it or not.  This is why some test equipment is sold either with or without a calibration certificate according to the customer's needs and at slightly different prices.  I think somebody owes you a fresh calibration certificate if you want one.

Your comment sums it all up perfectly.  Don't need the cert. moving on.  Thanks!

[bdunham7]

All the certificate shows is that the "self-cal" button worked within spec at the factory. Think of it as a little gold "QC" sticker.

Not to stir up a settled matter too much here, but AFAIK, 'SELF CAL' only only calibrates the vertical--offset and gain.  An actual calibration service and certificate would address many other possible issues, including the horizontal timebase accuracy.  IRCC, the Siglent factory certificate provides no particulars, it is really just a statement of conformity.  That said, I doubt very much that the OPs new scope has gone out of conformity in any way during it's 17-month nap in the box.

[TomKatt]

OTOH, if they are going to ship all of these with calibration certificates for those who need/want them, then it seems to me that they need to make sure that they get delivered before the 180-day grace period.  After all, if it is supposed to be included in the price, then you didn't get all of what you paid for regardless of whether you need it or not.  This is why some test equipment is sold either with or without a calibration certificate according to the customer's needs and at slightly different prices.  I think somebody owes you a fresh calibration certificate if you want one.

You make a valid point, but I don't think any of these companies really put much financial value on the calibration certificate for products in this tier...  I get the feeling they throw it in there to make the scope appear a bit more 'professional' than it really is.  And if the consumer considers the certification to be an important value-add component of the kit, they should really be looking for something a bit more 'professional' than an SDS1000X-E level scope.

[bdunham7]

And if the consumer considers the certification to be an important value-add component of the kit, they should really be looking for something a bit more 'professional' than an SDS1000X-E level scope.

Like a TBS1052C maybe? 

That all may be true if you using feelings, brand prejudice or tradition instead of logic (which is very common, of course).  If the SDS1000X-E is appropriate for your purpose but your ISO9000 or whatever requirements specify that the test instrument must have an unexpired calibration certificate, then logical thing to do is to just get the certificate for it at the lowest possible cost.  Having one included with the instrument is a good start.  There's often absolutely no connection between the relative capabilities of an instrument and the need for a calibration certificate.  I have seen very old and pretty low-end stuff that has been calibrated annually for a long time, probably at an aggregate cost higher than the price of a new instrument.   

[TomKatt]

That all may be true if you using feelings, brand prejudice or tradition instead of logic (which is very common, of course).  If the SDS1000X-E is appropriate for your purpose but your ISO9000 or whatever requirements specify that the test instrument must have an unexpired calibration certificate, then logical thing to do is to just get the certificate for it at the lowest possible cost.  Having one included with the instrument is a good start.  There's often absolutely no connection between the relative capabilities of an instrument and the need for a calibration certificate.  I have seen very old and pretty low-end stuff that has been calibrated annually for a long time, probably at an aggregate cost higher than the price of a new instrument.   

Again, all true.  And provided you only need to perform your certificate required tests within 180 days or so of purchasing the scope and won't be required to perform additional testing of any kind, certainly the SDS1000X would be among the most cost effective solutions.  Though I suspect if that were the case you could probably just pay someone else to do the work for less than the SDS1000X purchase price.

I have an SDS1104X-E (hacked into an SDS1204X-E) and it's proved to be an excellent and reliable tool on my bench.  I still have an old HP 180A CRO from 1970 that continues to be useful as well, but the SDS1104X-E has demonstrated to me advantages provided by modern technology that I never fully appreciated prior.  So, I'm not knocking it by any stretch - I just don't think that the certification it came with holds much value, primarily because it seems unlikely to get it renewed.

Edit - As for continuing to pay for recertification of old gear, at least something like a Tek offers that option.  You'd probably have to hunt pretty hard to find a company to certify the SDS1000X series.

[bdunham7]

I just don't think that the certification it came with holds much value

That's because you aren't working in a situation that requires all of your equipment to be covered by a traceable calibration certificate!

Edit - As for continuing to pay for recertification of old gear, at least something like a Tek offers that option.  You'd probably have to hunt pretty hard to find a company to certify the SDS1000X series.

No, there's plenty of independent calibration labs that will happily take your money to issue a new certificate.  They'll use an oscilloscope calibrator or similar equipment to verify that it meets all of its specs and put a sticker on it.  And AFAIK, Siglent will do the same if you send it back to their facility in Ohio.  A company near me, BK Precision, sells a lot of rebadged and OEMed equipment--including Siglent scopes--and one of the things that keeps them in business is that they offer calibration services for their products. 

[argile_tile]

"pro rated".  usually the term used when haggling for a rebate for a battery fails before it's warrantee.

does the manual SAY good from mfg date or good from time of purchase?  i bet it doesn't say.

the chinese aren't going to help you and they're in china.  the seller you'd have to "negotiate with" through amazon.

Look at your terms of sale.  Did they say the unit was not NOS (new old stock) ?  It is your responsibility to know.

like others i would say:  do nothing unless your job requires you to do something

[tautech]

does the manual SAY good from mfg date or good from time of purchase?  i bet it doesn't say.

the chinese aren't going to help you and they're in china.  the seller you'd have to "negotiate with" through amazon.

FYI, Siglent's largest wholly owned subsidiary is in Ohio whom supply their Amazon shop.
On their website is this, you should really have read it before mouthing off:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/warranty-information/

The official US position on Cal certs is here:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/

For those that wish to pick up bargains they can sometimes be found in the US clearance center:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/

[TomKatt]

I'm going to bookmark that clearance sale link 

Edit - Also, although I had perceived certification of an SDS1000X-E class scope difficult to renew (making the certification somewhat moot), I had forgotten that Siglent has a rather substantial presence in the US for support.