New Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope based on Xilinx Zynq-7000 SoC architecture

[Fungus]

IMHO the hackability of the DS1054Z has played a large role. Being able to get something for free which otherwise costs $1000 extra was just too much for many to handle.

You say that as if they all made a mistake. They didn't. Even with the new Siglent it's still a toss-up over which to get.

What do you go for? More channels or more bandwidth? Dave has already stated he'd go for the Rigol because of the four channels, the Siglent isn't compelling enough to outweigh that advantage (for him).

[Fungus]

Actually yes, I would assume that the DS1000Z series easily has 100 times more users than the Siglent SDS1000X-E series.

100? More like 10,000x more.

Maybe. As in "easily 100 times more", right?

You're right. The two numbers "100" and "10,000" are completely interchangeable. 

(also: Batteriser can last up to 8x longer)

[Electro Fan]

Not sure exactly where this thread is going but I think it's very good for users here and all over for both Siglent and Rigol to do their best to turn out good products at good prices with decent support.  If they both do that and they are successful users benefit from the innovation and competition; and to the extent either or both listen to the feedback here we get some input to their thinking.  It's all good.

[Fungus]

It's all good.

Yep. Competition is good for us. This new Siglent is the first real competition for the Rigol since it was launched a couple of years ago.

[nctnico]

IMHO the hackability of the DS1054Z has played a large role. Being able to get something for free which otherwise costs $1000 extra was just too much for many to handle.

You say that as if they all made a mistake. They didn't. Even with the new Siglent it's still a toss-up over which to get.

What do you go for? More channels or more bandwidth? Dave has already stated he'd go for the Rigol because of the four channels, the Siglent isn't compelling enough to outweigh that advantage (for him).

At least the Rigol 1054Z firmware is in a somewhat reasonable state nowadays where Siglent has just started on the SDS1202E firmware. IMHO both scopes are not good choices for a more demanding user and you don't need to spend a fortune extra to get something which performs better. In general there is a thin line between 'best bang for your buck' and wasting money.

[pascal_sweden]

Facts:
GW-Instek software is made in Taiwan.
Siglent and Rigol software is made in China.

Observations and statements:
Based on observations and statements on this forum, the software from GW-Instek seems very stable, even in new scope releases (e.g. observations and statements from forum user: nctnico).

Questions:
Is there such a big difference in software quality between both nations?
Would there be a big difference in wages between a Taiwanese software engineer and a Chinese software engineer?
If not, how come Chinese scope manufacturers don't work with a Taiwanese software house subsidiary?

[Koen]

Yes, this is totally imputable to both nations of origin. Also, french people have baguettes under the armpit, italians move their hands a lot while talking and romanians are vampires so visit during the day only.

[rf-loop]

Added this very tiny test about automatic mesurements:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1204964/#msg1204964

[MrW0lf]

Added this very tiny test about automatic mesurements:

Shows promise. Clearly not a "screen sampling" scope. Of course would need proper torture testing to find out if it really is using whole buffer, some clever gating or whatnot. But already this shows that you can get stuff done impossible on "screen sampler"... 

[Numbguy]

Added this very tiny test about automatic mesurements:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1204964/#msg1204964

clearly it‘s using the whole buffer.If you'd like to measure desired area,you can use the gate function in the measurement.And you can also set the  source Z1 or Z2 to measure the zoomed area in the measurement .

[MrW0lf]

In one example it has mem depth 14M, 14ms buffer, which means that contains ~123k edges for 9MHz signal:



If it really measures all edges - congrats - pretty hardcore. But often there are some internal optimizations that cleverly analyze only some data. To find out would need specific crafted tests. For 100% repeating signals of course mostly no difference how its done. Overall this is of little concern for end user. Wonder just out of curiosity if it really has so much processing power to honestly measure full 14M buffer in real time.

[karkoon]

I am electronic enthusiast, hobbyist and want to try out a few things. Few years ago I tried Arduino and it was fun. I learned some electronics in my junior college and then left for CS engineering degree. Didn't touch electronics for a while after that. After 12 years out of college I feel like trying things again and here I am. Trying to setup a small hobby lab.

I always wanted to own a multimeter and an oscilloscope. Just felt cool.

I watch many channels on YT which target hobbyist and everyone used to showcase lot of cool things using oscilloscope so decided to spend some money and buy one. Read a lot about 1054z as almost all the channels showcased it. Read reviews and liked it a lot. Enquired locally (I am from India), and found that two of the Indian companies are selling DSOs which are nothing but Siglent oscilloscopes. I couldn't find a Rigol distributor easily so decided to explore the Siglent path.

Last Monday, my new SDS1202X-E arrived and I tried a few things already on it. It is fast. Lot of complains related to firmware and issues are making me feel little worried but the cards are dealt.

Based on the pricing, I don't think I could have got a better deal TBH. 1052E from Rigol is much inferior to 1202X-E and 1054Z was almost 80-100 USD expensive for me including shipping. I steered away from Hantek and didn't had budget to explore Keysight 1000x series.

Thank you EEVBlog...

[rf-loop]

1052E from Rigol is much inferior to 1202X-E and 1054Z was almost 80-100 USD expensive for me including shipping. I steered away from Hantek and didn't had budget to explore Keysight 1000x series.

Rigol 1052E have nothing to compare with Siglent. It is so extremely far away from this class. Of we look The Oscilloscope performance also Rigol 1054Z is just like total toy if we really talk about oscilloscope performace. Only what this Rigol Z box have over Siglent 1kX-E (or Siglent 1kX/X+) is count of channels. But if we look performance it is reality that Siglent is far over.  Just fef points: Rigol total crap Sin(x)/x joke just like in total toy.  Siglent works in this thing like professional test equipment.   Rigol analog front end. Highest true sensitivity is 5mV/div and noisy as hell. Siglent 1kX/X+/X-E  full BW full resolution 500uV/div.
Siglent have real time continuously bacround working waveform history buffer (up to 54M).
Siglent have true fast Segmented memory acquisition (in X-E model measured quaranteed maximum speed  well over 490kwfm/s (segment/s)  (measured, not only manufacturer claim)
Siglent have full speed hardware based mask test.
Siglent X-E (with this early FW) have around 88kwfm/s max continuous average speed and up to 100kwfm/s peak speed. (measared - not only manufacturer claim)
Siglent have separate channel vertical adjustments.
Siglent have max 10Msample FFT.
Siglent X-E have over 200MHz bandwidth. (note: with two channels on, samplerate is 500MSa/s for both channels. Nyquist "wall" is just 1.25 * 200MHz   (same if Rigol Z box is used in 4 channels mode and 100MHz). It is just barely borderline enough for some purposes but it need user attention and understand some adverse effects.
Siglent automatic measurements accuracy/resolution is very extremely far over both these named Rigols, specially if take Siglent SDS1kX-E.

How about Keysight 1000X

I think Siglent can write on Siglent AD: "Scrap out  toys and take real The Oscilloscope"
(but this is not so clear in all things, not like with Rigol's. But with extremely useful Wfm history buffer and with extremely fast Segmented memory mode Siglent walk hands down circle around this Keyshit 1000X when it try running as fast as it can.  And if Keyshit 1000 X  have as noisy analog front end as Keyshit some 2k models...  ) But if we go to UI and some firmware things. Chinese (of course also including Taiwan island) need still continue developing themselves lot of - includind some things in  inside house working culture.

[ebastler]

Siglent [...]
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Mate, you are probably right about most technical points you make. Nevertheless: Are you still a Siglent dealer? If so, I really think you should disclose this in your signature. It would help your credibility.

[karkoon]

Hi,

I just released my 2 worth of video regarding my new SDS-1202X-E. Hope you enjoy!

[boggis the cat]

Hope you enjoy!

Yes.  Good sensible 'beginners' perspective.

The Auto functions can be a bit hit and miss, and I don't recall ever using it on any 'scope with more than one signal applied.  It appears to set the timebase for the slowest signal, which is probably the best approach.  You could check this by simply swapping the signals to each channel and see if it consistently sets the timebase.

Thanks for taking the time to do the video.

[Loboscope]

I am German and so I choose the language German in the 1202X-E - and so I could detect a more droll an funny "bug".
Under Trigger you will find the word "Kuemmerling" which will mean "runt" and is a simple translation of the English word "runt", which has also the meaning of scallywag. In Germany we will not use "Kümmerling" in a technical context and never for a trigger-definition. We also use the original English term "runt".
Siglent will certainly not have native German speakers in their team and so they will have a look in a dictionary for translating the UI. This leads sometimes to funny notions like this one.
Because after all there exists in Germany a schnapps called "Kümmerling" [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuemmerling] and reading this word on a scope, in Germany this schnapps might be the first association. This made me smile.

[karkoon]

I am German and so I choose the language German in the 1202X-E - and so I could detect a more droll an funny "bug".
Under Trigger you will find the word "Kuemmerling" which will mean "runt" and is a simple translation of the English word "runt", which has also the meaning of scallywag. In Germany we will not use "Kümmerling" in a technical context and never for a trigger-definition. We also use the original English term "runt".
Siglent will certainly not have native German speakers in their team and so they will have a look in a dictionary for translating the UI. This leads sometimes to funny notions like this one.
Because after all there exists in Germany a schnapps called "Kümmerling" [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuemmerling] and reading this word on a scope, in Germany this schnapps might be the first association. This made me smile.

Funny!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jono427]

Hi,

I just released my 2 worth of video regarding my new SDS-1202X-E. Hope you enjoy!

Haven't watched the whole thing yet but did see you saw the "Options" button problem.  I sent this to Siglent America and they were sending it to the factory.  The bigger issue is that after you press "Options" the menu page button works, but the display doesn't change - so the buttons are now different than the screen.  I sent them a video, but here is how you can reproduce.  Press "Options" then "Next Page Page 3/3" - Now press the button under "Update" and it will actually take you to the "System Status" screen (which is what that button is on page 1).  Here is the response I got from them:

The are no options on the SDS1202X-E. Serial decode is standard on this unit so no options will be displayed. The second part, pressing the option key and then the "Next Page Page 3/3" looks like a bug to me. I have forwarded this to the factory. No time frame has been given for the next firmware release.

[karkoon]

Hi,

I just released my 2 worth of video regarding my new SDS-1202X-E. Hope you enjoy!

Haven't watched the whole thing yet but did see you saw the "Options" button problem.  I sent this to Siglent America and they were sending it to the factory.  The bigger issue is that after you press "Options" the menu page button works, but the display doesn't change - so the buttons are now different than the screen.  I sent them a video, but here is how you can reproduce.  Press "Options" then "Next Page Page 3/3" - Now press the button under "Update" and it will actually take you to the "System Status" screen (which is what that button is on page 1).  Here is the response I got from them:

The are no options on the SDS1202X-E. Serial decode is standard on this unit so no options will be displayed. The second part, pressing the option key and then the "Next Page Page 3/3" looks like a bug to me. I have forwarded this to the factory. No time frame has been given for the next firmware release.

Thanks. That makes sense. I read the whole manual and there is no mention of options menu. I realised that there is some bug regarding button but I am not missing on anything.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rf-loop]

Yes they made decoding free and then "Option" button is there for nothing - exept if they later develop some (special functions) "options" what can sell separately for funding this zero margin dirty cheap The Oscilloscope, what is fully possible .

btw, looks like there in video is some "user slip" or bit lack of knowledge how oscilloscopes work in different situations, after time position 16:00.  Is it possible this small slip come from analog scopes world where some things may work bit different.


(Imho it works just ok... if I understand enough what you talk and show in video )

Is it good to get first bit more knowledge and experience before start suspect that equipment is wrong...

Specially position around just after 16:18  is good example and it can easy see that the ball seems to be completely lost... specially this wondering about Ch1 signal...    it was fun and there, imho,  scope works just ok. (or it need better explanation what is wrong)

But not so bad overall nice video and perhaps these some "wonderland" things can also use for beginners teaching purposes...  just explain that if you do this you need understand what happen there and why.

7 points wink. Look what is triggering and look what is time scale and think what is your signal... if still do not find the ball...   more home works. 

But as told, nice video and do not take worry about these small slips. These can turn for positive things and these are perhaps also useful for many peoples if it give more image about how things work.

I will ask if manufacturer can do some development. Perhaps they can change "Auto Setup" so that it is enabled only after very short exercise time, example after first 100 hours active use. (passive keep power on is not counted)

[karkoon]

btw, looks like there in video is some "user slip" or bit lack of knowledge how oscilloscopes work in different situations, after time position 16:00.  Is it possible this small slip come from analog scopes world where some things may work bit different.


(Imho it works just ok... if I understand enough what you talk and show in video )

Is it good to get first bit more knowledge and experience before start suspect that equipment is wrong...

Specially position around just after 16:18  is good example and it can easy see that the ball seems to be completely lost... specially this wondering about Ch1 signal...    it was fun and there, imho,  scope works just ok. (or it need better explanation what is wrong)

But not so bad overall nice video and perhaps these some "wonderland" things can also use for beginners teaching purposes...  just explain that if you do this you need understand what happen there and why.

Thank you for confirming.

[TheDefpom]

Hi,

I just released my 2 worth of video regarding my new SDS-1202X-E. Hope you enjoy!

The issue you identify towards the end with being unable to trigger to channel 2 after auto setting on channel 1 is normal, you need to press the setup button and change the trigger source to channel 2, as it will still be set to ch1 even if you turn it off, and so it will not be trying to lock onto the signal on ch2, this is why it works if you press auto again, as that will be changing the trigger to ch2 for you.

The option button you identified is an unused menu, as serial etc are built in it has no options to enable, I already passed that onto siglent recommending that the button be removed to avoid confusion.

Thanks for the mentions too 😉

[tautech]

The option button you identified is an unused menu, as serial etc are built in it has no options to enable, I already passed that onto siglent recommending that the button be removed to avoid confusion.

I don't believe the Option key will be removed permanently or should be.
There is additional functionality that could be offered for the X-E in the future.......if Siglent choose to implement it.

Too early to say what just yet, just some rumors heard. 

[TheDefpom]

The option button you identified is an unused menu, as serial etc are built in it has no options to enable, I already passed that onto siglent recommending that the button be removed to avoid confusion.

I don't believe the Option key will be removed permanently or should be.
There is additional functionality that could be offered for the X-E in the future.......if Siglent choose to implement it.

Too early to say what just yet, just some rumors heard. 

As we discussed though Rob, it could easily be added back if it has a use once again, if the button has to stay, then at least it needs to have a screen pop up saying something like "All options are enabled" or "No options available" etc. a button has to have a function, otherwise it causes confusion, as seen.