New Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope based on Xilinx Zynq-7000 SoC architecture

[Fungus]

eh, the Keysight ticks more boxes in my list

Sure, but it's at least twice the price.

Sometimes it is worth spending the extra money to get a tool which works well.

Sometimes it's just enjoyable to have nice things.
Do you drive the cheapest car you can afford, or eat the cheapest food?

Yes, but I don't directly compare the two and disparage the cheaper one. The cheaper one can have more bang per buck.

[madires]

Isn't the concept of gross and net data rates well known by engineers?

Yes, as long as it is specified which you are talking about. "Baud" always means bit times on the wire. "bps" may or may not, depending on context

I think this whole baud vs. bps mess is caused by a misunderstanding regarding POTS modems during the BBS' heydays. Back then everone talked about baud rates. Even with faster modems like 9600 or 14400bps they kept using the term baud, despite those modems were still running only 2400 baud. And if a symbol carries only one bit (UART), it becomes harder to unterstand the difference since the values are the same. This reminds me of Ohm's law and an 1 Ohm resistor

[chipss]

Wonder how fft will look on this unit? Usable?

[JPortici]

eh, the Keysight ticks more boxes in my list

Sure, but it's at least twice the price.

and all those ticks are worth at least that much because, you know, i need them. I was prepared to spend (reluctantly) the same amount money on the siglent 2000 before the keysight came out

it's not only because i want nice things now that i can afford them, if i spend less for another tool but the tool is not up to the job i actually wasted the money i spent on it. simple as that
and even if the cheaper tool can somehow do the same thing, but makes it harder for me? my time is worth so much more in the end.

PS: why don't you stop this nonsense? you know it's  either way for both of us

[Fungus]

and all those ticks are worth at least that much because, you know, i need them. I was prepared to spend (reluctantly) the same amount money on the siglent 2000 before the keysight came out

it's not only because i want nice things now that i can afford them, if i spend less for another tool but the tool is not up to the job i actually wasted the money i spent on it. simple as that
and even if the cheaper tool can somehow do the same thing, but makes it harder for me? my time is worth so much more in the end.

Sure, it's just terminology.

You can say things like, "I think the Keysight is worth the extra money" instead of "The Keysight is better". 

The Keysight isn't demonstrably "better" for everybody. 

(not until we live in a Star Trek world where everything is free thanks to replicators)

[tautech]

Wonder how fft will look on this unit? Usable?

If Dave still has the production model that he's been sent we hope he'll release a first impressions vid in the next few days before we get our stock. As the 1 Mpts X-E FFT has well publicised one would expect he'll have a good look at that feature and the 500uV front end at least.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

If Dave still has the production model that he's been sent [...] one would expect he'll have a good look at that feature and [...].

And at cough the cough serial decoder cough cough :-)

@Dave: *please* check the decoder @ (at least) 115200 baud *AND* @50 ms/div or more (if it lets you do that!) then zoom in.

[tautech]

If Dave still has the production model that he's been sent [...] one would expect he'll have a good look at that feature and [...].

And at cough the cough serial decoder cough cough :-)

@Dave: *please* check the decoder @ (at least) 115200 baud *AND* @50 ms/div or more (if it lets you do that!) then zoom in.

What we don't know yet George is how the additional grunt of the processor in X-E will eventually be utilised and now much further functionality might be added or even how existing functionality will be improved. Until we get X-E in our hot little hands and put them to so tests we just can't say. What I can say is your issues are in front of the engineers to be addressed but IMO the X-E FW will be similar to existing X and further improvements will come on future FW.
If you have additional info and screenshots etc you'd like me to pass along feel free to PM them to me or post them in the 1kX thread. The better the info they have the better job they can do. 

[rstofer]

Do all the encoders have detents?  Especially the Select encoder?

I really like the fact that the front panel describes exactly what pushing an encoder actually does.

[tautech]

Do all the encoders have detents?

 
Not all. Timebase and V/div, yes.

Especially the Select encoder?

Not in any of Siglents existing models. There has been a lot of work done with software acceleration but fine adjustments are quite acceptable. Each user will have a different opinion. When selecting changes in Menus that menu button can also be used for that purpose with addition/toggling pushes. Works fine for a small # of items in a menu but for large menus the Multipurpose knob need be used.

In some cases there is a virtual keyboard for selection of values and when in use the Multifunction knob scrolls through it and selection is made with a push.
IIRC rf-loop posted a screenshot of the virtual keyboard in the SDS1000X thread.

I really like the fact that the front panel describes exactly what pushing an encoder actually does.

Common to all Siglent models.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

IIRC rf-loop posted a screenshot of the virtual keyboard in the SDS1000X thread.

It's also in Dave's video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=11-AQ_E1fz8&t=1m53s

[sianturi]

Looks like this one will be my first oscilloscope. I'm waiting for the hands-on review, especially for the fw bugs... 

[rstofer]

Do all the encoders have detents?

 

Not all. Timebase and V/div, yes.

One of the two big complaints re: the Rigol DS1054Z is the fact that the Select encoder doesn't have detents and the selection sometimes bobbles when the knob is depressed.

We'll have to see what the reviewers have to say.  Maybe it is less of an issue than on the Rigol.

I can see where acceleration would be awkward with an encoder with detents.

Design choices...

[tautech]

Do all the encoders have detents?

 

Not all. Timebase and V/div, yes.

One of the two big complaints re: the Rigol DS1054Z is the fact that the Select encoder doesn't have detents and the selection sometimes bobbles when the knob is depressed.

The Siglent's can suffer the same problem but you don't have to use the Multifunction control for all selections, in fact for quick selection I just use the menu button to toggle/jump down the menu list.
You've had to press the menu button anyway so why not leave your finger there and toggle to the next selection. 

Going way back when the 1052E came out a common mod was the "Rigol knob swap"; using one of the larger knobs from one of the other controls as it improves the fine selectability when working with menus. I've tried it in the past on Siglent's but prefer now to use the original knobs in their default positions.

Design choices...

Yep, show me the perfect scope and we can all find some fault with it.

[pascal_sweden]

Going way back when the 1052E came out a common mod was the "Rigol knob swap"; using one of the larger knobs from one of the other controls as it improves the fine selectability when working with menus. I've tried it in the past on Siglent's but prefer now to use the original knobs in their default positions.

"Rigol knob swap" on a "Siglent oscilloscope".

Where two vendors meet each other in creativity!

[tautech]

Going way back when the 1052E came out a common mod was the "Rigol knob swap"; using one of the larger knobs from one of the other controls as it improves the fine selectability when working with menus. I've tried it in the past on Siglent's but prefer now to use the original knobs in their default positions.

"Rigol knob swap" on a "Siglent oscilloscope".

Didn't work for me, they can keep it as one of their special features. 

[nctnico]

One of the two big complaints re: the Rigol DS1054Z is the fact that the Select encoder doesn't have detents and the selection sometimes bobbles when the knob is depressed.

Rest assured that this problem isn't a typical Rigol issue. I very much prefer a seperate select button.

[chipss]

 Asking about FFT, and this unit, a cut and paste from youtube, if we only knew what all goes on behind the red curtain.


dragonfly333yyt11 hours agoHighlighted reply

Okay,I will do in future.sorry,but plz wait.
I begin to write the review in Japanese(sorry),but I up  some pictutes of FFT view.FFT 1MB is some extent good,now we can use persist,and max hold function,but the resolution is limited up to 100MH/div.For instance,we can't do resolution 10MHz/div.I have already reported it to Siglent.anyway,plz look at this page.Thanks.

[radhaz]

A review:
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/electronics_diy_5/e/fa05231ca66c31f2cd17817c6dab0675

[ebclr]

take a look on tek is better value than Keisight, at least measuments does not change when you zoon in a scale like keysight does

http://www.newark.com/tektronix-tbs2000-oscilloscope

[sianturi]

take a look on tek is better value than Keisight, at least measuments does not change when you zoon in a scale like keysight does

http://www.newark.com/tektronix-tbs2000-oscilloscope

2 ch @ US$ 1200 !!!

[TheAmmoniacal]

take a look on tek is better value than Keisight, at least measuments does not change when you zoon in a scale like keysight does

http://www.newark.com/tektronix-tbs2000-oscilloscope

2 ch @ US$ 1200 !!!

I really hope nobody buys that Tek  .. I mean, does it have anything going for it?

[mikeselectricstuff]

take a look on tek is better value than Keisight, at least measuments does not change when you zoon in a scale like keysight does

http://www.newark.com/tektronix-tbs2000-oscilloscope

2 ch @ US$ 1200 !!!

I really hope nobody buys that Tek  .. I mean, does it have anything going for it?

Does any tek scope have anything going for it these days?

[rstofer]

A Tek scope roughly equivalent to the Rigol DS1054Z (4 ch 100 MHz, etc) is about $2100
http://www.newark.com/tektronix/tbs2104/oscilloscope-4-ch-100mhz-1gsps/dp/85Y2798

I don't want to chase specs down a rathole so I'll concede right up front that the Tek is probably a better scope.  Still, it's 5x the cost!

[coppice]

Having only 4 clocks per bit will severely hamper the (digital) filtering and timing recovery a UART usually does. Why do you think a UART is typically designed to need 16 clocks per bit?

The use of a 16 times clock in UARTs stems from early FSK modems, which demodulated the signal, and output it without any cleanup. This means they could massively distort the mark space ratio of the signal under some signal conditions. There are still some UART applications like that, where asymmetric line drive behaviour (e.g. current loops) can distort the mark space ratio.

If you know the mark to space ratio will be fairly accurate, you only need to sample "somewhere" in the midst of each bit. A x4 clock is fine for things like that.