Best VNA for around or under $2000?

[knudch]

I made a few test @ 145MHz span 2 MHz

My LibreVNA make it to approx 105 dB at 10Hz BW

My Anritsu MS2721B (SA+TG) make it to 125dB at 30Hz BW (VBW 3Hz)  display range 0 - 150 dBm

[Battle]

I am finding this out to be true.  I appreciate the input. I still wonder about the Siglent SVA1015X. It says it's a SA with tracking gen & VNA. The specs say the VNA will do 90db of dynamic range. But I wonder about the SA & TG part of it. Then using that to finish the job that the VNA portion doesn't cover.

As for handhelds the Measall seems more appealing than the other nano type vnas in a few ways.

[joeqsmith]

Anyone have any experience with this handheld unit? NanoRFE VNA6000-B model?
Says it will do 110db of dynamic range.
https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html

Make sure you read and understand their specs.  Goes for ANY setup.   If I were trying to tune a filter, I would want something that provided me with a fast enough visual feedback that I didn't have to tweak, then wait several seconds to see the effect.

On these low cost VNAs, sure you can set the IFBW low and average the crap out of it, but that is not the mode the are running when they provide you with the sweep rate.   

Some of the VNAs will allow you to bypass various internal circuits, achieving lower noise.   

While your title states VNA, looks like you are now considering ditching the vector.  My BB60C Signal Hound spectrum analyzer is new enough it supports real-time mode with a BW of 27MHz.   Shown looking at a 140MHz, -120dBm signal.  Notice the sweep time is 33ms.   It uses USB3 and can dump that data to the PC fast.   The serial interface is well documented allowing you to do some pretty cool stuff with it.  Attached video was my attempt to review it by using it to decode some serial data from a cheap DMM. 

It does support swept mode as well. Shown with the same -120dBm  signal with a 10Hz filter.  Even with this setup, the sweep time is 1.1 seconds.   While they do support using a tracking generator with it, I have never had a need for it, or I would demo it for you.   If you have questions, you can call Signal Hound or use their forum.  They are very responsive.

[nctnico]

Dynamic ranges (from their datasheets):

SVA1000X 90 dB
SNA6000A 135 dB
SNA5000A 125 dB

Be aware these are just best-case banner specs. Actual specs over the entire frequency range are 30dB to 40dB worse. You have to be really careful when looking at VNA datasheets (or test equipment datasheets in general). Better start at the last page of a datasheet as this is where the nitty-gritty but super important details are hidden.

[KungFuJosh]

Dynamic ranges (from their datasheets):

SVA1000X 90 dB
SNA6000A 135 dB
SNA5000A 125 dB

Be aware these are just best-case banner specs. Actual specs over the entire frequency range are 30dB to 40dB worse. You have to be really careful when looking at VNA datasheets (or test equipment datasheets in general). Better start at the last page of a datasheet as this is where the nitty-gritty but super important details are hidden.

Best case scenario, specific frequencies, phase of the moon, etc. 😉

[Battle]

That's funny..phases of the moon. 

I'll be honest..I'm a bit bothered by spending around 2k for a used HP something from 1980/90s with a floppy drives & CRT displays in the year 2024. I worry about age of equipment vs soon to have component failures. Plus as far as name brand VNAs go some of those I've seen mentioned only do about 100/110db of dynamic range for the price range I mentioned. A lot of the big name equipment old & new is not priced for the hobbyist. They are made/sold as tools to make money for people who are either government or commercial funded with deep pockets.

I'm just the little guy who likes to learn stuff & work on his own stuff. Plus use what I have & what I learn to freely help others. Just to make life a bit better or easier for their fellow hobbyist. I've never charged a dime to anyone for helping them in ham radio stuff. From climbing towers to repeater work.

 For now id like something just better than my Lite VNA 64. But for what it cost me vs what some other stuff cost in comparison. I'm not sure there's much to choose from. I was leaning towards the Siglent models with SA, TG & VNA. But they seem limited too in some ways. I was thinking the SA & TG features could pick up where the VNA falls short on dynamic range. For tuning duplexers at least. But I'm not certain that's a good choice. Heck even the NanoRFE VNA6000 seemed like it might be a little better than my Lite VNA 64. But it's base model is about $800 & the B model sells for about $1600. Idk wtf is going on there. I can't justify 10/15 extra db of range for double the price. Another reason the smaller units appeal to me is storage size. I live in a small house with my kids still at home. So I try keeping all my hobby stuff put out of the way. It's becoming hard when your someone with multiple hobbies 

[egonotto]

Hello,

maybe it's stupid what I'm saying now, but isn't it possible to achieve the required dynamics in two stages in the case of the tuning duplexer? With a VNA you first determine the frequencies in which the signal is below e.g. -50 db. In this range, you amplify the signal and then tune the duplexer with a higher effective dynamic range than the VNA provides.
The error caused by the amplifier can be accepted in this case, can't it?

Best regards
egonotto

[knudch]

@Battle

I understand your concerns about buying a old/used "Big" lab VNA equipment

I payed approx 1200$ for my used Anritsu SA+TG which is portable (new batteries then really portable)

I dont believe any of the Nano flavours will do the job...my libreVNA (design/support is in EU) which is significant higher price can not do it (required 125dB dynamic).

Maybe a Siglent SVA1015X / SVA1032X owner can make a quick check to see what real dynamic range you have with a acceptable low BW and no trace average (takes to long in your case). SVA1015X VNA should be in your price range.
The SVA 1032X seems to have better DANL (-137dBm gainst -128dBm 10M-200M), so far I remember you cant not "hack" a 1015 to 1032.
1032 is above your price range

[Performa01]

I have checked the Signalhound SA44/TG44 SNA combination and found the dynamic range to be 102 dB at 2 m, 100 dB at 70 cm and 98 dB at 23 cm. All this with 1 MHz span, 5 kHz frequency step (200 points total) and ~1 second update speed.

Maybe the BB60 can do a little better, but it is also considerably more expensive.

[nctnico]

That's funny..phases of the moon. 

I'll be honest..I'm a bit bothered by spending around 2k for a used HP something from 1980/90s with a floppy drives & CRT displays in the year 2024. I worry about age of equipment vs soon to have component failures.

Personally I would strongly recommand against buying such old equipment. The prices these systems fetch are partly due to people not realising how old & fragile they are. When I look for equipment nowadays it must have a USB socket and a TFT screen. That is why I ended up with a basestation analyser as a crude VNA (and it needed some repairs as well). So yes, decent VNAs are still eye watering expensive  :'(

[joeqsmith]

I have checked the Signalhound SA44/TG44 SNA combination and found the dynamic range to be 102 dB at 2 m, 100 dB at 70 cm and 98 dB at 23 cm. All this with 1 MHz span, 5 kHz frequency step (200 points total) and ~1 second update speed.

Maybe the BB60 can do a little better, but it is also considerably more expensive.

That's too bad, but thanks for checking.  Is it limited by their TG?  I'll watch that video review I previously linked and see what they came up with.

Shown with the Marconi 2024 at 0dBm, floor is about 90dBc.  When I reviewed that GigaWave scope,  I had to make a custom filter to use with the generator to measure the THD. 

Also shown is an GHz interdigital filter attached to the LiteVNA.  The RED trace is with averages turned off.  Yellow is with an average of 3500.  sweeps.  I guess they could sell it with a dynamic range of 110dB but customers would be very disappointed to find out it took all day to get one sweep.      

[Performa01]

That's too bad, but thanks for checking.  Is it limited by their TG?

There is not much control in SNA mode. You set a frequency span and the number of points. This determines frequency step and/or update speed, but I did not observe any obvious effect on the noise floor, when using 100, 200, 500 and 1000 points. We shuld not forget that the SA44 can do RT only for up to some 100 kHz span, so at 1 Mhz span it already operates in traditional swept mode - or at least a combination of both modes. In other words: it is not entirely clear how the settings affect RBW of the SA.

[joeqsmith]

Looking at their review for the SA44B/TG44,  they start out making a big deal about the warning about the DC coupled input and the need to add a block to protect it.   Then they proceed to talk about connecting it directly to their radio and proceed to inject a 40dBm signal.   Did I see that right?? 

https://youtu.be/9wYDpzf-sl8?t=3368

Here he talks about the slow update rate and trying to align a filter:
https://youtu.be/9wYDpzf-sl8?t=5526

From the tests he ran, we can't really get a feel for the dynamic range, but seems to be well under 100.  So, not a good choice for the OP, but good to know.

[KungFuJosh]

That's funny..phases of the moon. 

Yeah, I'd be careful looking at old gear. You might need some crystals to keep it safe.

[Battle]

The mysterious moon phase vnas.