New Rigol DS2000-S series with built-in dual-channel 25-MHz AWG

[Hydrawerk]

OK, so no replacement for my DSOX2002A coming soon. I needn't regret buying my scope. 

[lgbeno]

I was just about to pull the trigger on a DS2072 and then caught wind of the -S series.  Part of me is glad that I did and the other half is sad because now I will likely wait until September.

I think that it is worth waiting for though...  One thing that I'm wondering is is there will be any software features for doing some low frequency network analysis with the two functions in one box.  If not, certainly a PC script could be written to do so.  I can think of a lot of nifty measurements that I could do.

[jhufford]

It's been many months since the last post here. Anyone hear anything new about this? I was just about to order a rigol ds2202 and I just happened to hear a passing reference on Dave's review of the instek scope that rigol's coming out with a new ds2000 that has the  function gen option.  Should I hold off on purchasing the ds2202?

[Hydrawerk]

Yes please, wait.

[jhufford]

OK, I got the skinny on this. Chatting with tequipment.net, I was told the new scopes would be shipping at the end of November (ugh, I want one now! Like another poster said, Rigol I have money I want to give you, don't make me wait!)

and here's the prices

Rigol DS2202A -200 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope $1626.00
Rigol DS2202A-S -200 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope with 2 channel source $1976.00
Rigol DS2302A-S - 300 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope with 2 channel source $2571.00

So it's an extra $350 for the function gen. This will be my first scope for home and I haven't used a function gen since electronics class in college about 6 or 7 years back. Is the function gen worth it? Would I find uses for it if I had it?  I'd kinda like to limit my purchase to $2000, so I could either get the 200mhz scope with function gen or the 300 mhz scope without.  I plan to use the scope on microcontroller projects and I'd like to do some radio projects, like homemade fm and am transceiver (Which is why I'd like a minimum 200 mhz scope, so I can easily directly see an oscillator in the fm range).. So what's more useful, the 200-300mhz range or a 25 mhz function gen? Advice anyone?

On the function gen front, how does this built-in one stack up to stand alone ones? What else will it do besides just the normal sine, sawtooth, sqaure, triangle, etc. ?

[darrylp]

Or playing devils advocate, get  ds2072 now 800 us dollars, and a decent separate arb  function gen. Cheaper, and you have it now. The ds2072 can be freely bandwidth and decoder upgraded to 200MHz


--
 Darryl

[manzini]

Or playing devils advocate, get  ds2072 now 800 us dollars, and a decent separate arb  function gen. Cheaper, and you have it now. The ds2072 can be freely bandwidth and decoder upgraded to 200MHz


--
 Darryl

Owon, Siglent... after waiting months for version A, maybe ds1074z ......  I have finally bought a DS2072.

The decision was making me dizzy, I have finally decided to have it now. I thought that a HW 2.0 of a platform with a year of revisions, at the beginning will be more stable than new hardware. This could be an absurd statement, but I'm too tired to product issues and it's my first rigol experience.

An external awg will be the next.

In any case, a very good company to my old Tek 2215.

[JDubU]

Owon, Siglent... after waiting months for version A, maybe ds1074z ......  I have finally bought a DS2072.
The decision was making me dizzy, I have finally decided to have it now. I thought that a HW 2.0 of a platform with a year of revisions, at the beginning will be more stable than new hardware. This could be an absurd statement, but I'm too tired to product issues and it's my first rigol experience.

If you look on page 224 of the DS2000A user manual from the Rigol Chinese web site:  http://www.rigol.com/download/China/DS/User_guide/DS2000A_UserGuide_CN.pdf
It shows HW v2.0.

It may be that the DS2000A has the same hardware as the currently shipping  DS2000 series but with newer firmware to take advantage of the added hardware features present in HW v2
(or the user's manual is wrong).

[jhufford]

Darryl -
Very interesting idea. But I'm reluctant because Murphy's a real bastard and I don't want to void my warranty... And I don't mind Rigol making a profit, from looking at reviews it seems that Rigol is by far the best bang for the buck.

It is awfully tempting, $800 for a scope and $800 for a DG4062 60 Mhz AWG, and still a couple hundred extra in my pocket...  I might end up paying $1900 for the 200Mhz with function gen and then unlock it to 300mhz sometime down the road..   Seems the ds2072 are all sold out anyways..   Or, once the new models come out, any older models left in stock will be reduced in price.... Choices, ugh.

[Hydrawerk]

It seems that DS2000A-S with arbitrary generator is coming to markets. http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS2000A/
http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS2102A-S/
http://toolboom.com/en/Digital-Oscilloscope-RIGOL-DS2102A-S.php
http://shop.meilhaus.de/en/rigol+ds2102a-s.htm
http://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds2102a-s

[marmad]

It seems that DS2000A-S with arbitrary generator is coming to markets.

People in the EU have already bought it and have posted on this forum.

[neslekkim]

Yes, I have it, but don't know much about it yet.. anything I should check/post?

[mrflibble]

Although nothing definitive, here are the external commands that have been added to the DS2000 firmware for the AWG. It seems like it does modulation - but not sweeping. As Dave mentioned before, they probably don't want to step on the toes of their other products too much

DAC
...
<long list of commands/>

Does anyone with a DS2000-S know what commands on that list are working over SCPI?

And similar question for the DS1074Z-S. Ideally I'd like to generate a waveform from matlab/python/whatever and then program that using SCPI.  In the DS2000 programming guide I found the :TRACE<n>:DATA:DAC and similar commands that would allow that sort of functionality. But in the DS1000Z programming manual I couldn't find the equivalent.

For the DS1000Z-S we do have:

[:SOURce[<n>]]:FUNCtion[:SHAPe]

<wave> ... {SINusoid|SQUare|RAMP|PULSe|NOISe|DC|INTErnal|EXTernal}

EXTernal: arbitrary waveform

Or alternatively with [:SOURce[<n>]]:APPLy:USER.

Great, so we can select the arbitrary waveform over SCPI. But how to program the waveform on the DS1074Z-S? Possibly similar to the DS2000A with :TRACE<n>:DATA:DAC.

Has anyone tried this yet?

[Rigby]

I have a 1074Z-S.  If there's something you want me to try, let me know.

Today I learned that AM modulation is not sweeping!  Sweeping uses a sawtooth wave to modulate frequency, then?

[mrflibble]

I have a 1074Z-S.  If there's something you want me to try, let me know.

Thanks!

I don't have a 1074Z-S (yet), and I'm trying to decide if the -S is worth it. A big part of the usability for me would depend on how programmable it is over SCPI. So if you could check the following SCPI commands that would be great:

:SOURCE1:OUTPUT:STATE ON
:SOURCE1:APPLY:SINUSOID

If I understand things correctly, that should give a sine wave with default settings.

:SOURCE1:APPLY:USER

That should change it to the arbitrary waveform. What waveform it uses, who the hell knows, since I cannot find that in TFM.

To Output Arbitrary Waveform DS1000Z allows users to define arbitrary waveforms and to save them to the internal or external memory. The internal memory can store 10 arbitrary waveforms at most. 1 to 16384 points (namely 1 pts to 16 kpts) can be included in the user-defined waveforms.

So presumably it will select waveform numero uno (out of 10 possible) by default.

And if you could check those ...

:DATA VOLATILE,200,500
:DATA:VALue? VOLATILE,200
:DATA:DAC VOLATILE,0,16383,8192,0,16383

Those are from the DS2000 programming guide, and it would be handy to know if that works on the DS1000Z series as well.

You can also load/save waveforms in *.arb format. So if all else fails you could use an usb stick or whatever to load new waveforms, but IMO that's not nearly as useful as programming in new waveforms over SCPI from a script or whatever your fav tool.

Today I learned that AM modulation is not sweeping!  Sweeping uses a sawtooth wave to modulate frequency, then?

I read that it supports both AM and FM modulation. FM modulation range is from 1 Hz - 50 kHz.

With this you should be able to do some FM modulation with a 1 kHz ramp.

:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FUNCTION RAMP
:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FREQUENCY 1000

If I read this correctly that should work with the builtin stuff (sine etc) as well as with the arbitrary waveform.

The specs for the AWG on the 1000 and 2000 series look exactly the same, so I am hoping that Rigol is also providing more or less the same interface...

[Rigby]

:SOURCE1:OUTPUT:STATE ON
:SOURCE1:APPLY:SINUSOID

The first turns the source on, as expected, but returns an error.

The second applies the sinusoid as expected, leaving all other settings alone.  (I turned it to ramp w/AM modulation, to see if it would switch to sine wave again.  It did.)

:SOURCE1:APPLY:USER
That should change it to the arbitrary waveform. What waveform it uses, who the hell knows, since I cannot find that in TFM.

Correct.  The GUI on the scope shows "Arb" and the scope trace shows flatline.  I've been diddling with the ARB waveform so that flatline could just be me.

:DATA VOLATILE,200,500
:DATA:VALue? VOLATILE,200
:DATA:DAC VOLATILE,0,16383,8192,0,16383

You can also load/save waveforms in *.arb format. So if all else fails you could use an usb stick or whatever to load new waveforms, but IMO that's not nearly as useful as programming in new waveforms over SCPI from a script or whatever your fav tool.

the first seems to have no effect.

the second returns a value.

the third seems to have no effect.

I can't find a way to create a waveform in .arb format over USB or thumbdrive or anything.  guidance on that is welcome.

:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FUNCTION RAMP
:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FREQUENCY 1000

results as you expect.

complete results:

* Connected to: USB0::0x1AB1::0x04CE::DS1ZB154100342::INSTR
-> :SOURCE1:OUTPUT:STATE ON
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :SOURCE1:APPLY:SINUSOID
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :SOURCE1:APPLY:USER
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :DATA:VOLATILE,200,500
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :DATA:VALue? VOLATILE,200
<- (Return Count:6)
22406

-> :DATA:DAC VOLATILE,0,16383,8192,0,16383
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :DATA:DAC VOLATILE,0,16383,8192,0,16383
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :SOURCE1:APPLY:SINUSOID
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FUNCTION RAMP
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.
-> :SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FREQUENCY 1000
<- (Return Count:0)

 * Error£¡£¡£¡
VISA:  (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.

[neslekkim]

These two guides lists the available commands for 1000z and 2000a

http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/Programming_guide/DS1000Z_Programming%20Guide_EN.pdf
http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/Programming_guide/DS2000A_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf

Anyone creating an graphical gui to control it?

[gwideman]

Could somebody who's played with the DS2000A-S series signal generator describe how satisfactory the user interface is in practice? I saw a youtube video of the DS1074Z-S's signal generator, and just setting the frequency looked pretty tedious.

And speaking of which, I'm wondering if the DS2000A-S's sig gen superior to that in the DS1074Z-S, given that the price increment for the former is around $350, versus $230 for the latter?

Thanks!

[Rigby]

It's the rotary encoder without detents that is the cause of a lot of issues I have with setting the frequency.

Honestly the scope should have a 10-key number pad.  It would make using the signal gen a heck of a lot easier. 

(I have a DS1104Z-S)

[neslekkim]

The scope need an app for the signalgen to be used, I'm not using mine, for me this ui is totally useless.

[Rigby]

The scope need an app for the signalgen to be used, I'm not using mine, for me this ui is totally useless.

It's actually not that hard to do if you want to play with SPCI.  I think you can even do it over the network using telnet and without installing any software.

[gwideman]

Thanks Rigby and neslekkim for your comments!

Regarding the possibility of a "remote UI": that prompts curiosity as to opportunities for adding a minimal external controller box with whatever UI knobs etc one might prefer... say an Arduino via USB or Ethernet.

I know user marmad  has done a lot of work on interfacing via PC, but I've not read enough of that to divine how easy it would be to assemble the software sufficient for a standalone controller to implement simple but useful UI functions.

Thoughts?

-- Graham

The scope need an app for the signalgen to be used, I'm not using mine, for me this ui is totally useless.

It's actually not that hard to do if you want to play with SPCI.  I think you can even do it over the network using telnet and without installing any software.

[Rigby]

Great, so we can select the arbitrary waveform over SCPI. But how to program the waveform on the DS1074Z-S? Possibly similar to the DS2000A with :TRACE<n>:DATA:DAC.

I think Marmad found a way.  I read it somewhere a moment ago but now I can't find it to link it for you.  He looked at a firmware dump, so if you can find a firmware dump of the DS1000Z you may find the SCPI commands you're after.

If you find some, let me know and I'll give them a shot when I can.

[mrflibble]

I think Marmad's experiment is partially valid until further validated.

Translation: AFAIK Marmad has a DS2000 series. So what validation steps you ask? Going through the DS2000A programming manual, and testing what SCPI commands also work on the DS1000Z.

Chances are pretty good that Rigol is just silly and decided not to include some stuff in the DS1000Z programming manual for whatever reason. I did write down a few commands that might be interesting.

...

Couple of quick tests. These are missing from DS1000 manual but listed for the DS2000A

:LAN:STATUS?
:CALCULATE:MODE?
:SOURCE1:FUNCTION:SHAPE:DC
:SOURCE1:VOLTAGE:AMPLITUTE MAX
:SOURCE1:PULSE:DCYCLE 42
:SOURCE1:PULSE:DCYCLE?

:BUS1:MODE?

I'd expect that return PARALLEL.

...

As for programming a waveform, I noticed that should not be too difficult using a couple of commands. So if you are willing to try, then I can write a few lines of SCPI commands for it.

[mrflibble]

Could somebody who's played with the DS2000A-S series signal generator describe how satisfactory the user interface is in practice? I saw a youtube video of the DS1074Z-S's signal generator, and just setting the frequency looked pretty tedious.

And speaking of which, I'm wondering if the DS2000A-S's sig gen superior to that in the DS1074Z-S, given that the price increment for the former is around $350, versus $230 for the latter?

Thanks!

As far as I can tell they are more or less the same, +/- the delta for randomized chinese documentation. As in, compared the specs for the sig gen on the DS2000A and on the DS1000Z and I couldn't find any significant difference. Most notable difference is max sine wave frequency. 1 MHz on the DS2000A-S and 25 MHz on the DS1000Z-S. But I would not at all be surprised if the current DS2000A firmware also goes up to 25 MHz for a sine wave. And if not, you can always program your own waveform so that it does. Admittedly, that way you don't get any potential optimizations Rigol might have made for improving the sine waveform.

On the subject of sine waveforms ... did anyone take apart a DS1000Z-S yet to see what the sig gen part looks like? Would be neat if it's a separate assembly with it's own clock source. Would be even neater if that clock happens to be an easy 10 MHz. ;-) That would just be an extra bnc connector waiting to happen.