New Rigol DS2000-S series with built-in dual-channel 25-MHz AWG

[grego]

I'm desperately trying to get Instek to provide a demo unit to Dave for review.  It makes me sad now that everyone talks only about Agilent and Rigol -- because Dave hasn't done a review on Instek yet!  Ah well, I hope to get that changed soon.

Greg, you seem like an objective, intelligent, and articulate guy - you could just do a review yourself as well. There wasn't any info available online about Owon's SDS line when I made my SDS7102 review (and thread here) 18 months ago, and even though I didn't end up keeping it myself, the review triggered a wave of sales and new owners of the DSO - who've since enlarged that thread into the 4th biggest one here. So it doesn't have to be Dave who gets people talking about GW-Instek 

Agreed, and I probably will do something with it in the near future - but I won't have the same cachet/weight that Mr. Dave is going to have.   Either way I'll get around to it as soon as I can figure out some way to get some decent footage down here in ye olde basement lab.

[Hypernova]

Tek is dead man walking...

[KedasProbe]

The jitter seems small.

Yes, I hate back BNC connectors... but I guess they're saving that knockout in the front for an MSO module some day.

They already have announced the MSO (with blurry picture) although it will only be on the 4000 series.
(probably doesn't fit in the price range of the 2000 series)

Edit: Wondering that the DG4000 didn't get an firmware update because this team was busy with this AWG.

[Hydrawerk]

Tek is dead man walking...

Their scopes are good, but too expensive for hobbyists. You may buy one if you want long memory, not very fast update rate and you have many $$$. Might be okay for single-shot use.
And they should update their 2008's DPO2000.  It's crazy to have a 480×240 pixels screen in such an expensive scope.

[marmad]

They already have announced the MSO (with blurry picture) although it will only be on the 4000 series.
(probably doesn't fit in the price range of the 2000 series)

I think Drieg told me that they're planning on an LA module for the DS2000 series as well, but perhaps they have a specific staggered release plan in mind (e.g. first LA on DS4000 and AWG on DS2000, then later the opposite?).

[Wuerstchenhund]

Unfortunately, Tek are almost insignificant in the low and mid range scope market now

Even worse, their high end offerings don't look much better in comparison with Agilent or LeCroy. Tek can't even compete with them in terms of pricing.

These days I can't really think of many reasons why I would buy a Tek scope.

[staze]

Unfortunately, Tek are almost insignificant in the low and mid range scope market now

Even worse, their high end offerings don't look much better in comparison with Agilent or LeCroy. Tek can't even compete with them in terms of pricing.

These days I can't really think of many reasons why I would buy a Tek scope.

Having grown up across the street from Tek's headquarters (Beaverton, Oregon), and seeing what it's like now... I am not sure I see Tek surviving. Hell, they're already a small shadow of what they once were. I guess I'm glad they're back focusing on what they did originally. Though the phaser printers are/were awesome, it's probably better handled by Xerox. But yeah, when Tek's cheapest scope is $1400, from what I can tell, it's just the Rigol 2072 that's $600 more. =/ Kind of sad... but I'm guessing the test equipment market is experiencing what the car makers experienced when Japan got in the game. Sure, you could buy a big America car, but why when you could buy a cheaper, more efficient, "better made" Japanese car?

[Hydrawerk]

These days I can't really think of many reasons why I would buy a Tek scope.

Maybe because you needed the Wave Inspector feature? It is really nice. I tried it on DPO2000, but other specifications of the scope were not so good so I didn't buy it. The scope even has no Trig Out and the screen is really poor. But it's no problem when using mainly for hunting digital signals.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Maybe because you needed the Wave Inspector feature? It is really nice.

I had a read about Wave Inspector in Tek's documents and quite frankly it doesn't seem to offer anything that wasn't available in other scopes already almost 10 years ago. Direct zoom controls and waveform playback are even in my 13 year old LeCroy Waverunner (it's called 'Wave Pilot' there), and the capability to search memory for certain signal properties or specific sequences in decoded data has also been available for many years. However, I don't know about entry level scopes and it may well be that this is unique there but (not having checked) I wouldn't be surprised if similar functionality is available in Agilent's DSO-X.

[marmad]

Using SCPI commands, I was able to play around with the features of the DS2000-S waveform generator 'inside' of the new firmware on the DS2000: setting the frequencies, voltage levels, phase, etc. of the two source channels. I also located (but haven't tested yet) the command to download waveforms to the AWG.

Of course, without any external outputs on my model (and not having it open), it was impossible to know if anything other than variable settings inside memory were being affected (probably not of course). I haven't been able to make the DSO show anything (including the new menus or screen icons associated with the AWG - as shown in the image), so I'm wondering if those things are tied to having the model number with the "-S" in non-volatile memory (just like the bandwidth, 2ns timebase, and 100MHz filter seem to be tied to the model number inside the DS2XXX).

[Wim13]

Are that the same ommands as they use for the DG4000 series...

[marmad]

Are that the same ommands as they use for the DG4000 series...

Some of them - and I think some are from DG2000 series.

[dougbert]

Is it known if the signal generator feature does modulation or sweeps?
I bought a DS2000 scope a few months ago, but I don't have any buyer's remorse, since I also got a DG4102 generator, which has lots of features...

[marmad]

Is it known if the signal generator feature does modulation or sweeps?
I bought a DS2000 scope a few months ago, but I don't have any buyer's remorse, since I also got a DG4102 generator, which has lots of features...

Although nothing definitive, here are the external commands that have been added to the DS2000 firmware for the AWG. It seems like it does modulation - but not sweeping. As Dave mentioned before, they probably don't want to step on the toes of their other products too much

DAC
CONTrol
FIXed
FIXed?
PHASe
PHASe?
ADJust
ADJust?
STATe
STATe?
VOLTage
VOLTage?
IMMediate
IMMediate?
AMPLitude
AMPLitude?
DCYCle
DCYCle?
AM
AM?
DEPTh
DEPTh?
INTernal
FM
FM?
DEVIation
DEVIation?
NOISe
SINusoid
SQUare
USER
APPLy?
OUTPut1
OUTPut1?
OUTPut2
OUTPut2?
DAC16
INTerpolate
INTerpolate?
VALue
LOAD?
DC
DC?
AMP
AMP?
SVCTxo
SVCT
VCTXo
VCTXo?
LOADdata
SAVEdata

[Electro Fan]

Unfortunately, Tek are almost insignificant in the low and mid range scope market now

Even worse, their high end offerings don't look much better in comparison with Agilent or LeCroy. Tek can't even compete with them in terms of pricing.

These days I can't really think of many reasons why I would buy a Tek scope.

Having grown up across the street from Tek's headquarters (Beaverton, Oregon), and seeing what it's like now... I am not sure I see Tek surviving. Hell, they're already a small shadow of what they once were. I guess I'm glad they're back focusing on what they did originally. Though the phaser printers are/were awesome, it's probably better handled by Xerox. But yeah, when Tek's cheapest scope is $1400, from what I can tell, it's just the Rigol 2072 that's $600 more. =/ Kind of sad... but I'm guessing the test equipment market is experiencing what the car makers experienced when Japan got in the game. Sure, you could buy a big America car, but why when you could buy a cheaper, more efficient, "better made" Japanese car?

- A couple problems faced by more than one company:  1) perhaps not seeing where the market is going (not sufficently anticipating changes in technology and customer requirements/opportunities), 2) not staying competitive with costs.  If you miss the revenue line and the cost line it's tough to compete.
 

[Wuerstchenhund]

- A couple problems faced by more than one company:  1) perhaps not seeing where the market is going (not sufficently anticipating changes in technology and customer requirements/opportunities), 2) not staying competitive with costs.  If you miss the revenue line and the cost line it's tough to compete.

I think in case of Tek it's a case of #1 combined with:

                   3) Being taken over by Danaher

Danaher is well known for their management concept which fosters micro-management and money pinching, and drowns creativity. Tek has apparently lost a lot of their best people, and I wouldn't be too surprised when a few of them are now helping out certain Chinese T&M manufacturers.

LeCroy had the same problem, but they were more lucky because they were bought by Teledyne, which seems to give them much more leeway and room to develop than Danaher does for Tek.

[Hydrawerk]

LeCroy is bad at cheaper scopes. The WaveAce is rebadged crappy Siglent and Wavejet is rebranded Iwatsu... The Iwatsu manufacturing quality is OK, but it is too expensive and old! It's probably designed in 2006.

http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=50

[jpb]

LeCroy is bad at cheaper scopes. The WaveAce is rebadged crappy Siglent and Wavejet is rebranded Iwatsu... The Iwatsu manufacturing quality is OK, but it is too expensive and old! It's probably designed in 2006.

http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=50

I have the WaveJet, and yes you're right it was designed in 2006 (probably 2005 in fact). Mine was built in late 2006 (it was "old stock"). If you pay new prices it is over-priced but I think even new ones can be had for 55% off (that is what a LeCroy salesmen told me but I'd already got mine). I only paid £1200+VAT for a 350MHz 4 channel WaveJet with 4 500MHz probes so this was cheap enough for me to accept the old technology. (In fact, as the list price for the 500MHz probes comes to around £1200 I could argue I got the scope for free!)

I'm very pleased with it. The main drawback is the noisy fan. When my warranty runs out I'll might change the fan. The build quality is very good, the calibration seems spot on (it was calibrated in 2006!). The sampling rate is fine (2GS/s on 2 channels or 1GS/s on 4 channels). The memory is ok (500k per channel) and I find it easy to use. It turns on almost instantly unlike other scopes and it has a nice VGA display. The timebase accuracy is better than most other lower price scopes. It is also small and portable. The main features that are missing compared with more modern designs are decoding options, high wfs per sec (3,600 instead of 50,000+), and it doesn't have trig out but none of these I miss. It is perhaps a little slow in writing to usb or at least in setting up when you plug a usb stick in. Annoyingly for me my model has a non-functioning rear USB port but the 300A series can be controlled from this port.

[Hydrawerk]

Any news about DS2000-S? Well, their function generator is better than DSOX2000 Wavegen...  But when is it coming to market??

[rkupka]

I´ve just got info from our local RIGOL reseller that -S range won´t be comming to retail before Q4/2013.

[Hydrawerk]

So we have to wait till september 2013? 

[Jonas]

Yeah that sounds right. My local dealers said the release in China is imminent and the world wide release will be 3 months after that.

[zlabsoft]

Yeah that sounds right. My local dealers said the release in China is imminent and the world wide release will be 3 months after that.

It seen that it aleady on sale in taobao for quiet awhile.

[JimmyMz]

tequipment has stated, with certainty, that the Rigol -S series is NOT leaving China, BUT there will be an "AS" series that WILL be released outside of China. He also confirmed that there is no ETA for the new "AS" series of oscilloscopes. Take it for what it's worth, but it's worth pointing out that tequipment is an official distributor of most Rigol scopes here in the USA.

[rolycat]

A popular online retailer (tequipment.com) has stated, with certainty, that the Rigol -S series is NOT leaving China,

Haven't they heard about the grey market, then?