NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[bdunham7]

dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

So yeah, it's disappointingly poor for a supposedly new architecture (Lexington it's called) that's been 15 years or so since the last one.

What are the memory settings when this is happening? 

[tautech]

Tek marketing choose to compare it, fine, their call. But you keep bringing up the comparison to a 12 year old scope (again as some obnoxious "challenge" here) so I'll keep pointing out that its off the mark and clutching at straws.

Show me where I have ever compared this to the Keysight 2000.
I have specifically said I personally wouldn't compare it to either of these scopes like Tek did. But I said I have no problem if anyone wants to because that's the way they see it.

The pricing and features of the Tek 2 series is a very very close alignment to the R&S RTB2000, suspiciously so when so much of the value in these scopes is now software that has almost zero marginal cost. But that is lagging behind competitive specifications of all sorts of other scopes in the same pricing. Yet you keep coming back with a cherry picked flattering "comparison".

I am NOT the one making such comparisons! Quite the opposite in fact.

Like I said, who exactly would consider a Keysight 2000 series as an alternative? Only marketing noodles! and apparently you. Are you stupid? probably not, so there must be some other motivation.
Going to keep trying the exact same behavior of willfully ignoring competitors? You'll keep getting called out as a marketing puppet.

You are either willfully ignorant, or a deliberate troll who likes attacking me. Given your previous history in this regard, it's obvious.

Dave, is this the impression you really wanna give to readers:

I had to un-notify myself from that New Tek thread. I didn't want to get any on me.   

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.
Although with the now low cost of eastern scopes in this class and as you have identified Tek's point of difference is physical design that caters well for valid corner use cases however will those be in enough numbers to ensure marketplace demand. 

[EEVblog]

dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

So yeah, it's disappointingly poor for a supposedly new architecture (Lexington it's called) that's been 15 years or so since the last one.

What are the memory settings when this is happening?

Automatic. Anywhere from hundreds of points to 250k.
When I manually force it to 1000pts at the slower timebases then I get the maximum 18k/sec update.

[EEVblog]

Dave, is this the impression you really wanna give to readers:

I had to un-notify myself from that New Tek thread. I didn't want to get any on me.   

If someone is deliberately misrepresenting my position to attack me then I will defend myself.

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.
Although with the now low cost of eastern scopes in this class and as you have identified Tek's point of difference is physical design that caters well for valid corner use cases however will those be in enough numbers to ensure marketplace demand. 

My guess is that it will sell well for Tek, just like I presume the 3,4,5 and 6 series have sold well enough for them to keep bringing out new model after new model.
Not because it competes well in bang-per buck against whatever it is you want to compare the thing too, but because it's Tek and people still like to buy Tek. And I think the battery and form factor and UI offers enough novelty to get quite a few people interested.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think this new Tek 2 misses the mark on pricing, and some of the options are outrageous to point of taking the piss. And I would not buy one with my own money. But I'm not the target market for this scope.
As I have also said though, if you compare the base model pricing it seems on par with Keysight and R&S offerings. Again, NOT defending it, and NOT making the comparison myself, just pointing out a fact.

[Fungus]

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.

People are still paying Fluke prices in large numbers because they're "made in the USA", so... 

Although with the now low cost of eastern scopes in this class and as you have identified Tek's point of difference is physical design that caters well for valid corner use cases however will those be in enough numbers to ensure marketplace demand. 

I expect this will sell large numbers based on looks alone.

(OK, looks combined with the "Tek" badge)

[bd139]

I’m not sure people really understand the market.

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff. You can buy the same scope for literally years. That means no techs having to retrain and no problems with reintegrating new kit into test rigs. If you’re at the start of a decade long project this is a good time to reintegrate new hardware.

The actual purchase price really doesn’t matter because anyone buying these other than the small business and one man outfits just pushes the cost up to the client.

The one man and small lab outfits don’t have that option so get a little more antsy about capital expenditure. Which is where all the debate is.

I did see and interesting observation the other day. When Apple do their yearly new hardware presentation their studio “lab” had a Tek in it last year. This year it’s a Rigol. They are props but I’m wondering why Tek didn’t slide one of their scopes in for product placement…

[Someone]

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.
Although with the now low cost of eastern scopes in this class and as you have identified Tek's point of difference is physical design that caters well for valid corner use cases however will those be in enough numbers to ensure marketplace demand. 

It would be interesting to watch them compete on pricing/features since these low cost scopes are made in China (Tek 3 series and up are partially? US assembled) so that's not the sticking point. All-most all functionality in a single cheap+large SOC/ZYNQ is a change from the 4/5/6 series, which should be faster than the competitive platforms (and offer more memory) but Tek somehow cripples/dumbs it down.

[Fungus]

I did see and interesting observation the other day. When Apple do their yearly new hardware presentation their studio “lab” had a Tek in it last year. This year it’s a Rigol.

In 2020 it was FNIRSI:



You can bet that next year it will be these Teks.

[PartialDischarge]

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff.

The guarantee that if anything breaks the repair will costs as much as a new equipment.

[Fungus]

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff.

The guarantee that if anything breaks the repair will costs as much as a new equipment.

I'm not sure you understand what "lifecycle" is.

Edit: And if anything breaks? It doesn't cost you anything - that's what the maintenance contract is for.

[Fungus]

Look at MicSig. Doesn't need those encoders.

well , the newest micsig ADDED the encoders because all the users were asking for it !

Nah, the newest Micsig took them off again:



Looks like they even took off the five side-panel buttons, too. They've been integrated into the main screen (four at top-right, one at bottom-left).

I'm not sure it's a good idea. I definitely use the buttons and encoders on my Micsig and I think it's better because of them.

(not all the buttons...I think there's a few I never use, eg. channel menu but there's others I use a lot, eg. the one to bring up the measurements menu and the one for the trigger menu. There's room for shortcuts to those on the bottom of that 13" screen...)

[bd139]

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff.

The guarantee that if anything breaks the repair will costs as much as a new equipment.

Nah. Having worked in the test gear department of a large corporation you just get another one out of the stores when the first one breaks and send the old one back and sit there on the phone doing RMAs for 4 hours a day on the large all inclusive service contract you have

If you have a Siglent or Rigol you sell it on eBay as “spares repair” and buy another one because they are so cheap that the time isn’t worth the money. Unless it’s in the limited 1y warranty and then you try it on with the distributor.

YMMV but that’s how most businesses work.

[tggzzz]

I measured the update rate for a 1MHz input.
18.8k/sec faster than 40ns/div, that's as good as it gets.
7.5K/sec to 100ns/div
3.8k/sec at 400ns/div
762/sec as the timebase slows down
380/sec
190/sec
dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

How do you observe and measure the update rate and gaps?

[jeremy]

FWIW I think this is actually competing with the Keysight 2000 series, in the same way that the 2000 series once competed with the Tek TDS. There are university labs absolutely full of Keysight 2000 series scopes, but they aren't going anywhere (despite their age) while the competitor scopes don't really bring any new value to the table. Honestly, for someone teaching people how to measure blips with an oscilloscope, this product doesn't really offer more than the 2000 series does, and I think it would be a waste of money to change a whole lab over. Having a built in ~10MHz AWG and 4 channels hasn't been innovative for at least a decade (maybe more). And I'm not seeing any free decoders or a radically reduced cost which I think really would make a difference. Or any other innovative ideas like, for example, real on-board scripting to write your own decoders/measurements/tests.

If you are fitting out a brand new lab though with no existing investment, then the tradeoffs become different, and this is probably what they are marketing towards.

[Fungus]

I just typed "tek" into google and it suggested "tektronix 2-series"

Tek is trending on google today!

[nctnico]

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.

People are still paying Fluke prices in large numbers because they're "made in the USA", so... 

And they want equipment that just works... Obviously the firmware isn't finished yet but I think this oscilloscope is worth investigating further for me to see if it is something I could suggest to customers if they are looking for test equipment.

IIRC Tek isn't big on promotional offers so pricing could be a problem though.

[scoper007]

Micsig finally puts it up on their site : https://www.micsig.com/Roadmap/   

[Fungus]

Micsig finally puts it up on their site : https://www.micsig.com/Roadmap/   

Coincidence? 

[Fungus]

IIRC Tek isn't big on promotional offers so pricing could be a problem though.

"Price" has never been a problem for Apple. It's all about looks. 

[tautech]

Now we each see this new Tek from where we sit and we each can find criticism of any new instrument to the market whether the readership likes it or not yet with the advances the east has made in the last few years and the A brands still wanting to market at historical pricing and not offer equipment with a significant edge on those from the east seems head in the sand mentality.
Although with the now low cost of eastern scopes in this class and as you have identified Tek's point of difference is physical design that caters well for valid corner use cases however will those be in enough numbers to ensure marketplace demand. 

It would be interesting to watch them compete on pricing/features since these low cost scopes are made in China (Tek 3 series and up are partially? US assembled) so that's not the sticking point. All-most all functionality in a single cheap+large SOC/ZYNQ is a change from the 4/5/6 series, which should be faster than the competitive platforms (and offer more memory) but Tek somehow cripples/dumbs it down.

Yeah but at least Tek did some half smart stuff by using 3GSa/s ADC's and throttling them back to 2.5GSa/s so to get away with minimal cooling and keep the thing quiet.
With most 2000 class scopes 2GSa/s Tek has an edge on them in sampling rate however Dave's latest findings of WFMS and the Teks quite limited memory depth and needing to give good battery life required Tek to clock it down some to meet the design brief.

[tszaboo]

Just seen this today.
MSO242-BW-500 4 Analog Channels, 2.5GS/s sample rate, 10Mpts record length 500MHz Bandwidth (It's unclear if Logic analyzer is included or not) €9760
MSOX3054T MSO / MDO Oscilloscope, InfiniiVision 3000T X, 4+16 Channel, 500 MHz, 5 GSPS, 4 Mpts, 700 ps € 13160
Seems to be competitively priced. Though it comes with 1 year warranty 

A noticable/sizable jump in price between those two, the comparison in Keysight 3000 would probably be their recently released DSOX3054G ($14,000 vs comparable tek with licenses and probes $15,000). Closer would be Lecroy T3DSO3000 (Siglent) or 3000z. Like the Tek 2, the Lecroy 3000z is their lowest/cheapest model with their "full" UI, but retains active probe interface. A big step up over the Tek 2 in scope features/performance/options. Very few of these scope segments/tiers directly compare/overlap.

I compare it to the MSOX3054 because that's my benchmark for a scope with features that I most engineers need. I also don't consider buying an Asian brand for work, because nobody got fired for buying IBM.
Are you saying that would make more sense to compare it to the 2000 series Keysight?

Also, just seen this on their product page:

Built-in 16 MSO channels for testing digital circuits*
*Available with future software releases.

Feels like a beta release to me, that management forced out of the door before it was ready.

[tv84]

I just typed "tek" into google and it suggested "tektronix 2-series"

Tek is trending on google today!

I bet that is your profile...

[Fungus]

Yeah but at least Tek did some half smart stuff by using 3GSa/s ADC's and throttling them back to 2.5GSa/s so to get away with minimal cooling and keep the thing quiet.

There's no evidence they did that as a deliberate design decision. Maybe they just got a good price on those parts or there wasn't a suitable 2.5GSa/s part available in the middle of a worldwide chip shortage.

[Fungus]

Also, just seen this on their product page:

Built-in 16 MSO channels for testing digital circuits*
*Available with future software releases.

Feels like a beta release to me, that management forced out of the door before it was ready.

Par for the course in software development. At least they're being honest and not selling you a half-working version today.

[EEVblog]

I measured the update rate for a 1MHz input.
18.8k/sec faster than 40ns/div, that's as good as it gets.
7.5K/sec to 100ns/div
3.8k/sec at 400ns/div
762/sec as the timebase slows down
380/sec
190/sec
dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

How do you observe and measure the update rate and gaps?

I shot a video today, you'll see. I've done it some older videos too.
Basically, you feed in a 1MHz square wave (that's kinda become a defacto standard signal for this purpose) and set the scope to output a trigger signal (not all scopes can do this) which you can view on another scope. Adjust timebase and watch the trigger signal, you can see the rate and the dead periods.
The Tek 2 also displays the cumulative aquisitions on the top of the screen, so you can get a rought total/sec from that display, but no other detail.