new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Robaroni]

HYdron,
I've taken the detents out of encoders but I completely forgot about these until I read your post. I suggest you do some real work for awhile and see if they are still bothersome. I find that ergonomics are important but once you learn the idiosyncrasies of an instrument they don't way especially heavily. Also I'll be using a mouse with mine.

But I guess different things bother different people, I hate noise. I had an Agilent meter on the bench and the fan whine drove me to the point of selling it. The R&S is wonderfully quiet! To each his own.

[Hydron]

I agree about noise - I buy PC parts based on how loud they are and swapped the fan out on my previous scope (DS1054Z) due to it being too loud. The R&S is fantastic regarding noise - the aircon in the room drowns out the noise of the scope.

[Harb]

~$7920.00 - 4 channel - RTB2K com4

(corrected)

Thanks, I am def going to go down this path, but I am just waiting a bit longer to make sure they are a good thing after everyone that has one has well and truely put them to work and are happy.......

[nctnico]

~$7920.00 - 4 channel - RTB2K com4
(corrected)

Thanks, I am def going to go down this path, but I am just waiting a bit longer to make sure they are a good thing after everyone that has one has well and truely put them to work and are happy.......

For this kind of money there are so many alternatives (used and new) out there that it doesn't make sense to spend this much money on a scope like this. I can't see R&S selling this scope for around $8k. It will do better in the $3k to $4k region especially since it is a Hameg style scope and the increasingly stronger competition from Asia.

[madires]

I agree, the price doesn't seem to be reasonable. Take one of the Hameg DSOs for example. The 4-ch 350MHz bundle with all options was about EUR 5.5 or 6k, IIRC.

[Robaroni]

Harb,

Mike did a couple of excellent utubes on this scope.

[Robaroni]

I'm not sure I agree completely. I expect a lot of institutions might want this scope. Also names like R&S, Agilent and Tektronix have better resale. You have to look at the whole picture and look at the options too. What's Keysight getting for a maxed out MSO at this freq? $10K? $12K?

Sure things will only get cheaper, but again, the hero is the chip manufacturer, they make all us engineers look good!

[Joel_l]

I had the same too much $$$ impression. At the intro price, it was a no brainier, great deal. The 8K loaded price, not so much. I'm thinking more like ntcnico, $3k - $4K is where this scope lives. I made a comment way back that I hope we don't end up orphaned because these scopes don't sell.

Time and sales will tell.

Joel

[nctnico]

I'm not sure I agree completely. I expect a lot of institutions might want this scope. Also names like R&S, Agilent and Tektronix have better resale.

Resale value is vastly overrated because you'll need a really trustworthy resale channel (with warranty and support) to fetch a reasonable price. In general test equipment depreciates even faster than a car. Especially if you want to sell as a private person it will be hard. Look at what kind of (low) amounts the last year's scope month Keysight scopes went for. And these where brand new! Also I don't think you can compare between today's plastic lunchboxes and >20 year old boatanchors which still fetch foolish amounts of money. It is a bit like classic cars; they don't make stuff like that anymore.

Looking at competing products there are the Hamegs, Lecroy's Wavesurfer 3000 and Keysight's 3000 series. If you look at Asia then you can add a few more.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'd agree the price for the fully-loaded unit is pretty unrealistic  & would be highly surprised if we don't see some offers 7 bundles.
Will also be interesting to see some feedback from people who have managed to negotiate deals with distributors. Clearly there is a lot of potential for R&S to offer deals on options.
Even at the list price, there may be some customers who need the more unique features - fast ethernet/USB MTP, 10 bit ADC etc. and if they don't need the full bandwidth & options the pricing is probably pretty reasonable.

R&S have acknowledged that they are fairly new in the scope market and are in it for the long haul, so there will be some market testing going on - better to start high & reduce til sales pick up than do a Rigol and launch a product too cheap, which nobody can actually buy for months.
 
As regards competition in the "big brand" area, Tek are all but dead, and R&S could easily be the main competitor to Keysight long-term if they play it right. 

..and of course there is the hack potential....
 
 

[Robaroni]

I'm not sure I agree completely. I expect a lot of institutions might want this scope. Also names like R&S, Agilent and Tektronix have better resale.

Resale value is vastly overrated because you'll need a really trustworthy resale channel (with warranty and support) to fetch a reasonable price. In general test equipment depreciates even faster than a car. Especially if you want to sell as a private person it will be hard. Look at what kind of (low) amounts the last year's scope month Keysight scopes went for. And these where brand new! Also I don't think you can compare between today's plastic lunchboxes and >20 year old boatanchors which still fetch foolish amounts of money. It is a bit like classic cars; they don't make stuff like that anymore.

What would you rather have a 100 tube CRT 17" TV or an LED big screen?

As for cars, I had a guy I knew call me up asking me to convert his pristine 49 Ford coupe to an EV. I told him that his 49 Ford wasn't safe enough to drive. No seat belts, steering wheels that drive through your chest in front end collision, no airbags, abs or head rests to stop whiplash. No rust protection, no independent suspension - well you get the idea. I'm glad they don't make them like that anymore, my next car will be an EV, I have a Chevy Bolt on order, if I don't like it I'll wait for the Tesla 3 or one of the other EVs that will be out in the next couple of years. It's called technology and it dictates the future. CRT analog scopes - you can have them along with any old Ford coupes.

[nctnico]

Well you claimed outdated technology has a great resale value because of the brand name 

[Robaroni]

I'd agree the price for the fully-loaded unit is pretty unrealistic  & would be highly surprised if we don't see some offers 7 bundles.
Will also be interesting to see some feedback from people who have managed to negotiate deals with distributors. Clearly there is a lot of potential for R&S to offer deals on options.
Even at the list price, there may be some customers who need the more unique features - fast ethernet/USB MTP, 10 bit ADC etc. and if they don't need the full bandwidth & options the pricing is probably pretty reasonable.

R&S have acknowledged that they are fairly new in the scope market and are in it for the long haul, so there will be some market testing going on - better to start high & reduce til sales pick up than do a Rigol and launch a product too cheap, which nobody can actually buy for months.
 
As regards competition in the "big brand" area, Tek are all but dead, and R&S could easily be the main competitor to Keysight long-term if they play it right. 

..and of course there is the hack potential....

I, for one, don't want to be opening cases to save a buck.  This is why Eagle never appealed to me, guys writing unsupported ULPs that should be standard options. I'm not in the EDA software business or the test equipment modification business.
The RTB2k is great in my view, sure we got them cheap but if I bought it afterthe promo I would have left off the AWG and maybe the MSO but it does decoding in spades and that's the bulk of my work - retired as much as I might be!

Tektronix is still a good company with a good product. Out of hobby range but they still have an audience. I've used their scopes since the 60's and they have always been good, maybe not the best bang for buck but solid performers.
 
Dave's reviews seem more hobby sided to me, things bother him that I never think twice about like noise when you tap the screen or where a knob is placed. At four in the morning when you have a major piece of commercial machinery down that you're scratching your head trouble shooting you're not tapping screens to see the noise and you better know what all the knobs do!

Nope, this scope is the cat's meow to me even at twice the promo price. Two thumbs up R&S, nice job!

[Robaroni]

"Well you claimed outdated technology has a great resale value because of the brand name."

No, I claimed used name brand equipment has better resale. I said nothing about outdated.

[Hydron]

I don't know about what distributors could offer, but I know that talking to R&S UK direct they were willing to try and get me a good price (specifically as a keen hobbyist, not sure if they could do better or worse for commercial sales given the need to keep distributors happy). I was offered a promo unit at significantly below any non-US price I've seen mentioned here, or alternatively to let them know what my priorities were regarding options so that they could price up a base unit plus those. Probably would have gone for their offer if I hadn't snagged one of the last US units.

On another topic, I'm packing mine up for the trip back to the UK - taking the main unit plus power cord in carry on baggage, but am wondering about how I should pack the probes etc for the TSA. Would prefer to have these in hand luggage too, but they could go in checked if it's likely for them to get unhappy about them. Anyone with comments/experience on flying with scope accessories?

[mikeselectricstuff]

On another topic, I'm packing mine up for the trip back to the UK - taking the main unit plus power cord in carry on baggage, but am wondering about how I should pack the probes etc for the TSA. Would prefer to have these in hand luggage too, but they could go in checked if it's likely for them to get unhappy about them. Anyone with comments/experience on flying with scope accessories?

Why are you bothering to take a  (presumably) US power cord ?

Probes have sharp points and a TSA screener probably wouldn't have seen one before. Probably not an issue but I'd put them in checked luggage.

[Robaroni]

I don't know about what distributors could offer, but I know that talking to R&S UK direct they were willing to try and get me a good price (specifically as a keen hobbyist, not sure if they could do better or worse for commercial sales given the need to keep distributors happy). I was offered a promo unit at significantly below any non-US price I've seen mentioned here, or alternatively to let them know what my priorities were regarding options so that they could price up a base unit plus those. Probably would have gone for their offer if I hadn't snagged one of the last US units.

On another topic, I'm packing mine up for the trip back to the UK - taking the main unit plus power cord in carry on baggage, but am wondering about how I should pack the probes etc for the TSA. Would prefer to have these in hand luggage too, but they could go in checked if it's likely for them to get unhappy about them. Anyone with comments/experience on flying with scope accessories?

They only damage to probes I see is from being pushed on from the sides which could possibly break them. I'd put them together and make sure nothing heavy or sharp is above or below them. You could even put them all together sandwiched between two books rubber banded together. Just a suggestion. They're pretty rugged, I ran over one with a desk chair wheel once, still worked fine but the plastic under the removable head did crack.

[nctnico]

On another topic, I'm packing mine up for the trip back to the UK - taking the main unit plus power cord in carry on baggage, but am wondering about how I should pack the probes etc for the TSA. Would prefer to have these in hand luggage too, but they could go in checked if it's likely for them to get unhappy about them. Anyone with comments/experience on flying with scope accessories?

Why are you bothering to take a  (presumably) US power cord ?

Probes have sharp points and a TSA screener probably wouldn't have seen one before. Probably not an issue but I'd put them in checked luggage.

AFAIK they are more obsessive about objects which can be perceived as dangerous and thus can be used to instill fear. In other words: anything that people recognise as being harmful like scissors, knifes or weapons in general.

[Bud]

Yes they are WIRES. Everyone knows what wires are used for 

[Hydron]

US power cord is in case TSA wants to see it working (as suggested by another poster). They were insisting for a while that all phones etc must power on and work before they'd let them on a plane.

The idea of probes in carry on was that they cost a lot to replace if luggage is lost, and my bag is a soft one so am afraid of damage by luggage handler. Could stick the tips in checked, or the whole lot (I guess TSA might open it, but I don't mind as long as everything goes back in the bag when they're done).

[JoHr]

Yes they are WIRES. Everyone knows what wires are used for 

In case of the probe i would put them to the luggage. A probe might be a similar weapon like a screwdriver.
Shoelaces will work as well as a power cord . But i´ve never had complains about having a power chord in my hand luggage when carriing a laptop.

But thats was before the US started to ban laptops in hand luggage.

[ElektronikLabor]

I have uploaded a review.
Unfortunately it's in German, sorry. I can not expect from someone to listen to my Englisch pronunciation.

[JoHr]

You can have 2.5GSa/s  on channel 2 if you switch off channel 1.
The scope keeps the trigger sources switched on in hardware. So if you try to switch off channel 1  its just made invisible.
You can see the channel 1 info at the bottom is still displayed.

You can use this to keep your screen clean and just have those information you need. The other channel is not lost in this case.
--------------------------------
BTW you can turn off digital channels as well using the menu at the bottom ...

[ElektronikLabor]

You can have 2.5GSa/s  on channel 2 if you switch off channel 1.
The scope keeps the trigger sources switched on in hardware. So if you try to switch off channel 1  its just made invisible.

You're right, Thanks! It 's absolutely makes sense

[ws2812b]

Hm on mine I can deactivate the demo capability. Might it be that yours is in some kind of demo mode?