NEW Keysight HD3

[jjoonathan]

Something genuinely useful & innovative, or a gimmick/niche thing?

I've been waiting for the "Waveform Analytics" deployed in Keysight CX3300A to come over to the scopes. Automatic motif identification and classification is such a powerful and general purpose time-series analysis tool that frankly it's slightly annoying that "*the* time series instrument" has been completely sleeping on it, generally speaking. Maybe it's that?

(The wall between EE and CS causes problems going the other way too, of course: computer-based time series tools are (almost) all missing intensity grading / digital phosphor, which is table stakes for oscilloscopes.)

Which is to say: AI, AI, AI, AI, AI

[Someone]

Anyway, I can say that this new HD3 has something that no other scope in the same market has.

Something genuinely useful & innovative, or a gimmick/niche thing?

Given Dave's history on this sort of thing:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-next-gen-tektronix-scope/
I'm guessing a bunch of distraction and hype for little real value.

[nctnico]

Anyway, I can say that this new HD3 has something that no other scope in the same market has. So you can't "get the same out of the China", at least not yet.

That just makes me wonder. What type of instrument hasn't been bundled with an oscilloscope yet??? The only useful & not-yet-done thing that pops into my mind would be a network analyser going up to 100MHz or so (as a step up from simple frequency response analysis). Would be cool especially if it is as quick as a real network analyser.

[EEVblog]

I'm curious to see if the Batronix Magnova class and the HD3 class have a non-empty intersection.

I had no idea that existed.


Who actually designed and built that?
In any case no it's not comparable to the new HD3, apples and oranges market segments.

[EEVblog]

Anyway, I can say that this new HD3 has something that no other scope in the same market has.

Something genuinely useful & innovative, or a gimmick/niche thing?

Definitely not a gimmick, it pushes the market forward. It's already been mentioned here.
As always, YMMV. Some might think this is a decider for them, others won't care and have other priorities in their needs.

[Zucca]

Keysight has never really been in the hobbyist/home lab market (same for Tek and Lecroy), I don't know why people expect them to be? Especially now given that there are half a dozen major brands that cater to this specific market.

As hobbyist I spent many $$$ in the official KS Ebay store, which now is gone.
Opening an Ebay store to sell used equipment is basically calling for hobbyist to jump on the boat.
When there were problems I contacted the customer support and they treated me like a king. I was a happy camper.

Then I read here in this forum they will not sell anymore to private and support them.
I do love KS devices, but I hate I am just a ghost for KS as private/hobbyist in my home lab.

PS: At work I bought Tektronix scopes, because 99% the 2 series  was the best for our needs and 1% because if KS does not want to support me at home, then I will not support them at work. It was my little revenge to KS 

[Zucca]

Anyway, I can say that this new HD3 has something that no other scope in the same market has.

Something genuinely useful & innovative, or a gimmick/niche thing?

Definitely not a gimmick, it pushes the market forward. It's already been mentioned here.
As always, YMMV. Some might think this is a decider for them, others won't care and have other priorities in their needs.

I smell mixed domain....

[tooki]

I'm curious to see if the Batronix Magnova class and the HD3 class have a non-empty intersection.

I had no idea that existed.


Who actually designed and built that?
In any case no it's not comparable to the new HD3, apples and oranges market segments.

Here is The Big Thread™ on it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/magnova-oscilloscope/

Batronix design and build it themselves. Quite an achievement, if it’s actually good!

[HighVoltage]

Batronix, based in northern Germany,  used to carry Keysight scopes for a while with a really good customer service.
Suddenly from one day to another they stopped offering the Keysight brand.

As a Keysight fanboy, I must say, I was very much impressed, playing with the Batronix MAGNOVA.

Here is the datasheet and brochure

[KE5FX]

It does look pretty sharp.  Given the USB 3 connectivity, I wonder if there's a way to stream data out of it continuously.

[nctnico]

I'm curious to see if the Batronix Magnova class and the HD3 class have a non-empty intersection.

In any case no it's not comparable to the new HD3, apples and oranges market segments.

I'm not so sure about that. The Batronix' Magnova oscilloscope looks like a pretty allround instrument on paper. I'm really looking forward to see if Batronix can deliver on the promises. If they do, they offer an oscilloscope which has very little shortcomings compared to the competition. Oddly enough, so far no oscilloscope manufacturer has been able to come up with an oscilloscope which caters to all use cases which would still qualify as general purpose use (given the same ballpark bandwidth). Some are just simple, others strong on math, others are strong on mixed signal & decoding, others strong on resolution, others strong where it comes to the UI, etc. Not to mention rather uncommon features like adjustable signal filters.

[electr_peter]

HD3 Series Oscilloscope 4x the resolution, half the noise
The InfiniiVision HD3 Series oscilloscope enables you to capture small signals more accurately than ever before with its low noise front-end and the world's first 14-bit ADC in an oscilloscope. This offers you 4x more vertical resolution relative to...

Part of brochure text leaked. "half the noise" taken at face value would be impressive, but let's wait for the real datasheet.

[Martin72]

“Half the noise”, I would spontaneously ask myself what half before I would find it impressive.

[egonotto]

Hello,

"half the noise":
I'll go with the Infiniium EXR series. Keysight should accept its own devices. So that would mean:

50 Ohm:
                20 MHz   1 GHz
1 mV         22 uV     37 uV
1 V            1.5 mV   3.2 mV

Especially the values at 1 GHz would be impressive and the best I have seen so far.

Best regards
egonotto

[Someone]

Hello,

"half the noise":
I'll go with the Infiniium EXR series. Keysight should accept its own devices. So that would mean:

50 Ohm:
                20 MHz   1 GHz
1 mV         22 uV     37 uV
1 V            1.5 mV   3.2 mV

Lets see where they end up and what hilarious comparison is needed for "half". The DSOX series are not flattering in the current mix.

[PELL]

So it’s been almost a month, any news?

[EEVblog]

I'm curious to see if the Batronix Magnova class and the HD3 class have a non-empty intersection.

In any case no it's not comparable to the new HD3, apples and oranges market segments.

I'm not so sure about that. The Batronix' Magnova oscilloscope looks like a pretty allround instrument on paper.

That's the point. The HD3 isn't really an "allround instrument".
Obviously it can be of course, but it's 10 times the price for a reason, and that puts it more in the category of having a specific reason an budget to buy it.

[EEVblog]

“Half the noise”, I would spontaneously ask myself what half before I would find it impressive.

Half of the best competitor.

[tautech]

“Half the noise”, I would spontaneously ask myself what half before I would find it impressive.

Half of the best competitor.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5609039/#msg5609039
 

[EEVblog]

“Half the noise”, I would spontaneously ask myself what half before I would find it impressive.

Half of the best competitor.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5609039/#msg5609039
 

The SDS3000X HD is specced at 125uV RMS @1GHz, and it's not the best on the market.

[EEVblog]

So it’s been almost a month, any news?

September 18th
https://connectlp.keysight.com/HD3

[egonotto]

....

The SDS3000X HD is specced at 125uV RMS @1GHz, and it's not the best on the market.

Hello,

the SDS3104X HD has less than 6 mV RMS noise at 1 GHz and 50 ohms and 1 V/div and 1 ms/div and 40 Mpts and 4 Gpts/s. Only LeCroy can beat that. With other time and memory settings, the SDS3104X HD can also be brought below 5 mV noise.

I find the noise at 1 V/div much more important than at 1 mV/div because it determines the achievable signal-to-noise ratio. If a device is not so good at 1 mV/div, you can always call in a good preamplifier.

Best regards
egonotto

PS: This is better than the specifications for the Infiniium EXR. It says 6.33 mV and High-resolution is used for bandwidths 2 GHz and below.
Unfortunately, LeCroy does not specify which setting is used to determine the noise. Unfortunately, this also applies to other companies.

[Martin72]

The SDS3000X HD is specced at 125uV RMS @1GHz, and it's not the best on the market.

It would also be quite embarrassing for others if the cheapest 1GHz scope was also the “best” in terms of noise on the market.
It's certainly not the worst either.

[2N3055]

The SDS3000X HD is specced at 125uV RMS @1GHz, and it's not the best on the market.

It would also be quite embarrassing for others if the cheapest 1GHz scope was also the “best” in terms of noise on the market.
It's certainly not the worst either.

We wait and see..

My SDS3000X HD has 130uV RMS @1GHz BW at 10 mV/div.. by the way..

[Someone]

It would also be quite embarrassing for others if the cheapest 1GHz scope was also the “best” in terms of noise on the market.
It's certainly not the worst either.

We wait and see..

My SDS3000X HD has 130uV RMS @1GHz BW at 10 mV/div.. by the way..

The data points I've seen from the Siglent HD models overlaps identically with the Lecroy data above (unsurpisingly).