Looking to buy new scope for audio: R&S vs Keysight entry models

[EEVblog]

In that price range, you should also consider the Siglent SDS2000X HD series (12 bit), and not too far off is the Magnova scope (made by Batronix in Germany).

I would second that you should be looking at a 12 bit scope, it's the new "entry level" spec.

[EEVblog]

I dont really know as i have never used a digital one But i guess people are talking about the speed of the interface? Opening menus etc… please correct me if im wrong as im really not certain. But any kind of latency in menus would be a nogo for me. I hate how slow this digital age feels - everything has latency
This would be way more important to me than specs. I just called my old electronics guru (broadcast guy) and he said 20 Mhz is all i need

If UI speed is your absolute priority, then a Keysight with the Megazoom ASIC is the clear winner. With all the scopes in my lab, the Keysights are the best in terms of just everyday usability IMO, so quick, responsive and simple.
That being said, they are arguably the worst in terms of bang-per-buck. R&S is probably 2nd worse in that regard.
As I said, you'd want a real good reason not to buy a 12bit scope these days, but as always YMMV.

[KungFuJosh]

If that's your budget, I would look seriously at the Siglent SDS2000X Plus. It's €1,199, and has the 2000 level features but only 2 math channels (instead of 4), and it's 8bit instead of 12bit. It also has a built-in AWG. I would buy that again ten times before looking at the lower models that include 12bit.

The 2000x plus has even 10 bit resolution up to 20 ish MHz.
And a really good input front wrt noise, so good for audio.

Exactly. I used it for audio for 3.5 years before I upgraded to the HD model (which I only did because a ridiculous opportunity slapped me in the face). It was almost always in 10bit mode, and did really well.

I dont really know as i have never used a digital one But i guess people are talking about the speed of the interface? Opening menus etc… please correct me if im wrong as im really not certain. But any kind of latency in menus would be a nogo for me. I hate how slow this digital age feels - everything has latency
This would be way more important to me than specs. I just called my old electronics guru (broadcast guy) and he said 20 Mhz is all i need

The interface isn't slow at all. It's not as fast as the more expensive HD model, but it's by no means slow in its own right.

Most scopes, especially less than $3000+, have a relatively slow FFT. Some brands may be marginally better than others, but none are worth bragging about. Unless you spend a minimum of $1000 more on your scope, you won't really see better FFT or Bode plot performance.

This is where a proper analyzer like the QA403 comes into play. It will allow you to run specific tests for audio faster than any of the scopes we're talking about. And it's only about $600. So now you have 2 excellent tools instead of 1 that would cost more money and really isn't better for your needs.

The only reason not to buy the 12bit version for the scope is that it's probably not worth an extra $1000 to you right now. Maybe it is, compare them. 😉

[salomonander]

Off topic, but i was just offered an audio precision portable one plus that needs calibration. He is asking 1000€ - is that a fair price. Or what would be appropriate?

[EEVblog]

Off topic, but i was just offered an audio precision portable one plus that needs calibration. He is asking 1000€ - is that a fair price. Or what would be appropriate?

I do believe that's a bargain. You could flip that on ebay and get a free scope with the profits.

[salomonander]

Thanks, i thought so as well. The specs are insane. THD+N -130dB

[EEVblog]

Thanks, i thought so as well. The specs are insane. THD+N -130dB

Yes, I bought an AP2700 for $500 from a previous company I worked for. Sold it on ebay for $8k I think it was. Great bits of kit.

[fabrizio_fabrice]

It depends on your intended use.  Analysis is one thing, but you say you do repairs.   

I have several older Tek analog scopes, which have great triggering features for small-signal analog work, especially.    In contrast, I find the Siglent SDS1202X/E very frustrating to use. 

Mentioned trigger features are all digital methods, and only 1 trigger input.  If you have a sig gen for trigger, an attenuated output could work for probing.

The Siglent FFT is a great feature; wish mine produced Bode plots.   It's sensitive enough to show MW RF signals across the band with nothing more than a short wire... (and averaging).  But that's RF-speak.

Maybe other here can say how they approach audio repairs?π

[BennoG]

Hello,

for audio applications, a 16-bit PicoScope 4262 could also be of interest.

Yes I would also go for a 14 / 16 bit picoscope.
I use them from 2012 and also have a  tektronix mso4104, 99 our of 100 I use the picoscope.

There is a bode plot using the SKD with a lot of community support https://www.picotech.com/support/viewtopic.php?t=14311

Benno

[Neganur]

Fixing audio circuits I’d think any scope will do. All you want to do is follow a waveform in the circuit, no?

I don’t think a scope is any good for THD, and so on since they don’t have the resolution or dynamic range, measurements its <100kHz so maybe even a good (external) studio sound card for the distortion, noise etc? Or 2nd hand, e.g., Neutrik audio analyser gear, but they are probably too expensive.

Or am I completely out of the loop for audio?

[KungFuJosh]

Or am I completely out of the loop for audio?

Only partially. 😉 That Neutrik is a dinosaur. There are devices like the Quant Asylum QA403 that do much better.

A good modern scope is fine for the other stuff, doesn't need to be 16bit. I'm using a Siglent HD scope for audio, and it works great. The 8bit I had before it was fine too.

[BennoG]

A good modern scope is fine for the other stuff, doesn't need to be 16bit. I'm using a Siglent HD scope for audio, and it works great. The 8bit I had before it was fine too.

As long as you are not interested in noise levels and distortion of the audio amplifier then every cheap 8 bit scope will do.

[KungFuJosh]

A good modern scope is fine for the other stuff, doesn't need to be 16bit. I'm using a Siglent HD scope for audio, and it works great. The 8bit I had before it was fine too.

As long as you are not interested in noise levels and distortion of the audio amplifier then every cheap 8 bit scope will do.

Exactly. And if you are interested in that, then a device like the QA403 is a better tool for that purpose anyway. Combo of a good scope + good audio analyzer = better than any scope by itself on the market for audio work.

[Darkover]

Be advised though that frequency response on Siglent scopes can be pretty slow compared to others. If you have the budget, I'd take a long look at the R&S RTB2004

RTB2000 is very fancy, but in it's core basic scope that is expensive.

I think the RTB is good for audio work because of its bode plot feature!
If money is a problem, buy the two channel with 70Mhz, but with bode plot.

Olaf

[KungFuJosh]

I think the RTB is good for audio work because of its bode plot feature!
If money is a problem, buy the two channel with 70Mhz, but with bode plot.

RTB2002 is $1840 USD.
RTB-K36 FRA/Bode plot option is $740 USD.

Siglent SDS2204X HD is $2400 with Bode plot function included on a 12bit scope. Or you can get the SDS2104X Plus for $1400 with 10 bit mode and Bode plot function included.

None of those will outperform a dedicated audio analyzer.

R&S is nice, but it's not the best option, especially not if budget is a concern.