New Analog Scopes?

[nicknails]

Does anyone still make decent analog scopes?  I am looking for a couple new scopes at my work and I prefer analog scopes, mostly because of they're triggering.  I have a couple Rigol cheapies and the triggering annoy that crap out of me.  It seems that no one makes anything decent with storage capabilities anymore.  I have 3 old analog Hameg's that I like, but they're starting to crap out on me.

[mikeselectricstuff]

It seems that no one makes anything decent with storage capabilities anymore. 

Huh?
Pretty much any digital scope, however cheap and crappy has better storage capability than any analogue storage scope ever made...

If you want a good analogue scope, look for a used Tek 2465A/B - one of the best analogue scopes ever made.

[c4757p]

If you want a good analogue scope, look for a used Tek 2465A/B - one of the best analogue scopes ever made.

Seconded with enthusiasm.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Holy crap - just looked at RS and they have 17 models of analogue scopes from 3 manufacturers -  a couple over a grand!
Who on earth buys this stuff nowadays?

[c4757p]

Maybe some schools want to keep a few CROs around. Probably cheaper to just pay for the thing new than to take the chance that a used one is broken and will need expensive troubleshooting time and repairs.

[Hydrawerk]

GW Instek still produces decent analog scopes, but I would not buy any analog scope today.
http://www.gwinstek.com/en/product/productdetail.aspx?pid=3&mid=6&id=60

[nicknails]

Mike, I meant analog scopes with storage capabilities.  I know every DSO on the market has better storage capabilities than anything analog.

I've always used analog and the few DSO's that I've used totally suck at triggering.  Maybe it's because we have bottom rung Rigols.

On a side note, any good guides out there for refurbishing Hameg scopes?  If I can clean or replace the pots, they'll probably work much better.

[Nack486]

GW Instek still produces decent analog scopes, but I would not buy any analog scope today.
http://www.gwinstek.com/en/product/productdetail.aspx?pid=3&mid=6&id=60

We have the 6520 in the school lab. Haven't gotten the chance to work with it myself but it seemed decent (well, at least compared to the other scopes we have...). The question is, again, why would you need an analogue oscilloscope these days? I understand using analogue multimeters (you can see peaks) but you got me thinking if there's an actual advantage using the old scopes.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I've always used analog and the few DSO's that I've used totally suck at triggering. 

Sucked inI what way ?
Triggering isn't something that's hard to do so not sure what the problem would be. Digital scopes generally have a lot more options, like pulse width etc.
 

[Wuerstchenhund]

I've always used analog and the few DSO's that I've used totally suck at triggering.  Maybe it's because we have bottom rung Rigols.

I don't know what DSOs you have used but the DSOs I work with have triggering capabilities far beyond any analog scope.

Maybe the DSOs you have used where just shit?

[PaulAm]

If you really need an analog storage scope, Tek 7934s were in production to 2000, so they're not that far out of date.

Given all of the neat tricks you can do with a DSO with a decent sample memory, that is really outmoded tech though.

[nctnico]

It seems that no one makes anything decent with storage capabilities anymore. 

Huh?
Pretty much any digital scope, however cheap and crappy has better storage capability than any analogue storage scope ever made...

If you want a good analogue scope, look for a used Tek 2465A/B - one of the best analogue scopes ever made.

Those are getting really old. Better look for something more modern like the Iwatsu SS-7847A (Lecroy LA314H).

[Tepe]

Those are getting really old. Better look for something more modern like the Iwatsu SS-7847A (Lecroy LA314H).

TEquipment has it for a mere $12319.50 

[Anquietas]

Those are getting really old. Better look for something more modern like the Iwatsu SS-7847A (Lecroy LA314H).

TEquipment has it for a mere $12319.50 

Who spends that much money? I would assume that adapting a working system to a new scope is much less costly than getting a "new" old one to fit into the prefabricated slot (all things considered) in the system...

[GK]

I understand using analogue multimeters (you can see peaks) but you got me thinking if there's an actual advantage using the old scopes.

Try looking at an audio-modulated RF envelope on a typical DSO for a start.

[Hydrawerk]

typical DSO=TDS220
Yes, but today we have better digital phospor scopes with 1 000 000 waveforms per second (DSOX3000 series). There will be no problem with looking at audio-modulated RF envelope.

[nctnico]

Those are getting really old. Better look for something more modern like the Iwatsu SS-7847A (Lecroy LA314H).

TEquipment has it for a mere $12319.50 

I sold mine for € 475,- a couple of years ago.

@Hydrawerk: The TDS200 series is so crappy that anyone mentioning it should get banned for a week!

[w2aew]

typical DSO=TDS220
Yes, but today we have better digital phospor scopes with 1 000 000 waveforms per second (DSOX3000 series). There will be no problem with looking at audio-modulated RF envelope.

The problem with many DSOs looking at an audio modulated RF envelope has little to do with waveform update rate - it has to do with the aliasing / under-sampling of the carrier when the horizontal scale (sweep speed) is slowed enough to clearly observe the audio patterns.  Some DSOs give you ability to change the sample mode to +/-peak to try to compensate.

Still, an analog scope does excel in this application.

[Hydrawerk]

Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux) produces some decent oscilloscopes, but I have never used them. The older Hamegs looked better...
http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/display.asp?1917

[Hydrawerk]

Unfortunately, this machine is not produced anymore. 

[Lukas]

typical DSO=TDS220
Yes, but today we have better digital phospor scopes with 1 000 000 waveforms per second (DSOX3000 series). There will be no problem with looking at audio-modulated RF envelope.

The problem with many DSOs looking at an audio modulated RF envelope has little to do with waveform update rate - it has to do with the aliasing / under-sampling of the carrier when the horizontal scale (sweep speed) is slowed enough to clearly observe the audio patterns.  Some DSOs give you ability to change the sample mode to +/-peak to try to compensate.

Still, an analog scope does excel in this application.

This ain't a problem if you implement sampling at low sampling rates right. Let's assume that the ADC always runs at full sample rate. At low sampling rates you have many superfluous samples. What to with them?
1. just take any nth and discard the others and get aliasing
2. store min and max and loose statistical information
3. average: brings down the noise level, but you loose high frequency content
4. take a random sample: you don't get aliasing and retain statistical information (where the signal spent a certain amount of time)

HP published an article on this in one HP Journal issue, don't remember which.
Anyway you don't have to care about this when using a recent DSO such as the Agilent DSOX series, which give you an analog-like display.

Concerning analog scopes:
If you need high performance and flexibility and don't have a massive amount of money, a used analog scope is pretty much the sole option. I paid less that 100€ for my tek 7834 with Plugins. With a bit of adjustment (reduced scan, fast storage mode) you get 500MHz single shot bandwidth. The other extreme is the 7a22 plugin with gives you sensitivity down to 10µV/div at a bw of 1MHz. That's unbeatable value for money, even it would have cost 1000€.

[Gunb]

Holy crap - just looked at RS and they have 17 models of analogue scopes from 3 manufacturers -  a couple over a grand!
Who on earth buys this stuff nowadays?

There're still reasons for analog scopes, especially where storage is not needed. For audio measures I prefer to use my good old Hameg 407 combiscope with 40MHz bandwidth. The cathode ray is faster than most digital scopes, so wfm/s isn't an issue. Did you try to see an AM on a scope with low wfm/s? No problem with analog scopes. So, I would miss it if it wouldn't be on my desk, although I've got 3 digital scopes, too.

Kind rgds
Gunb

[Gunb]

Concerning analog scopes:
If you need high performance and flexibility and don't have a massive amount of money, a used analog scope is pretty much the sole option. I paid less that 100€ for my tek 7834 with Plugins. With a bit of adjustment (reduced scan, fast storage mode) you get 500MHz single shot bandwidth. The other extreme is the 7a22 plugin with gives you sensitivity down to 10µV/div at a bw of 1MHz. That's unbeatable value for money, even it would have cost 1000€.

I agree, and 1000,-€ can be less money for what you might get, even for a used analog scope.


Rgds
Gunb

[zaoka]

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hameg/oscilloscopes/hm400.htm

[EEVblog]

Does anyone still make decent analog scopes?  I am looking for a couple new scopes at my work and I prefer analog scopes, mostly because of they're triggering.  I have a couple Rigol cheapies and the triggering annoy that crap out of me.  It seems that no one makes anything decent with storage capabilities anymore.  I have 3 old analog Hameg's that I like, but they're starting to crap out on me.

Hameg make "combi" analog and digital storage scopes. So why not just get a modern digital scope when you need storage, and just a regular analog when you need/want analog?
And why are analog scope superior to digital scope when it comes to triggering?

Dave.