New Agilent 34461A 6.5 Digit Bench Multimeter

[Hypernova]

If it's anything like the scopes what you get with USB a also a USB serial SCPI interface, so ubiquitous SCPI command support should be there.

Thanks, good to know

Edit: I guess I should do some reading to find out for my self, but if I have a bunch of code that does coms to instruments via gpib-32.dll, would I have to talk to these USB scpi instruments through some vendor specific dll or will the gpiib-32.dll handle it?

No idea about that since I've only played with Command Expert's Excel plug in, which does connection through Agilent IO library which treat all devices from different buses like they are just different addresses.

[bingo600]

If it's anything like the scopes what you get with USB a also a USB serial SCPI interface, so ubiquitous SCPI command support should be there.

Thanks, good to know

Edit: I guess I should do some reading to find out for my self, but if I have a bunch of code that does coms to instruments via gpib-32.dll, would I have to talk to these USB scpi instruments through some vendor specific dll or will the gpiib-32.dll handle it?

AlfBaz google USBTMC

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/044FA220F32774ED86256DB3005850CA

/Bingo

Ps: How's the 3457A program comming along , do you master your Agilent USB-GPIB 
Drop me a PN ...

[saturation]

Scanning its other bench MM available now, the differences between each model are increasing fine.  The service manual is available and I like that like its HH DMMs, calibration can be done either manually one range at a time, or automatically.  You can tweak a single function and range without affecting  or needing to adjust the other ranges or functions.

[Circuitous]

The specs look quite similar to my 34410A, with the addition of a 10A range.  But, it only takes 1,000 samples/sec.  I'm really looking forward to the review. 
I wonder if the fan is as loud as the 34410A?  The fan in mine is similar to the DS1052E, maybe even louder.

[Christe4nM]

Dave, I'm most interested in a first impression / review AND teardown of course! Curious to know what that trueVolt stuff is they mention.

Things I'd like to know how the color display is compared to VFD for example. It is easy to read from an odd angle, and is a quick glance enough to see what you want to see? I mean, when there is just a single color number against a black background that's easy to read. Now it displays UI together with your reading, possible making that quick glance into a longer glance to interpret what your eyes see. It seems a trend to get these color displays in instruments, but I really like to know if that is just the best option today or that 7segment, VFD etc are still considered more user friendly. What do people think about the displays in the rigol PSU's for example?

This morning I spend a bit of time comparing the 34410a (not 34401a!) and 34411 to the 34461a, and basically I cannot see why the latter aren't replaced as well. It seems only a small step up from the 34461a, so I'd think they would do that as well with say a '34466a'. It would at least bring the price on those units down. That would indeed be to the bench DMM market what the the 2000X,3000X did to the scope market like someone mentioned above.

[nukie]

The hp34410a failed to replace the industry standard 34401a, I hope this new colourful unit gain some popularity. I stick to Keithley 2K for long term accuracy.

[robrenz]

Finaly,Trend plot on a Agilent.  Looks realy good

That green screen Fluke looks pretty 1980's now doesn't it 

[/8846A fanboy]
[attempt to be objective mode]

The 34461 screen is awesome, this is a VERY nice meter. There are several things that are an improvement over the 8846A.
Trend chart is more versatile in what it displays and shows the axis scales rather than them being implied. 
Limits is a nice feature that is integrated very nicely into all the display modes.
Probe hold looks extremely handy with up to 8 measurements displayed (can be a mix types of measuremants)
Statistics has span displayed.
Bar meter looks nice because it has configurable span and center.
Better ACI performance outside the 10Hz to 5kHz band
More modern manual with more measurement technique information.


linearity and input bias current are the same on both. 
Max reading rates are basicaly identical except the 34461A is faster on AC
EDIT: both meters need to add offset compensated ohms on the 4 wire resistance mode

But for $280 dollars more you get:
1000V
24ppm instead of 35ppm DC
Dual display mode
Capacitance
Better DCI performance 1A and above
Generaly lower burden voltages
10 ohm and 1Gohm ranges on resistance
1MHz frequency
5V and 10v diode ranges
Selectable continuity threshold from 1 to 1000 ohms at 300 samples per second
Better NMR 100db vs 60db above 1PLC
Very high resolution available on trend plot down to 1nV below 100µV readings

If you dont need any of the things listed for the 8846A you would be crazy to not buy the 34461A

[/attempt to be objective mode]
[8846A fanboy]

That was hard

[bingo600]

Ohh btw. Dave

Did Agilent keep their promise , by lowering the voltages used when testing in the Ohms range ?

I think someone complained that he fried an expensive 1.2v board , using a 34401A. When he was measuring some traces in the ohms range.

You could mention that in the video.

/Bingo

[Hydrawerk]

Multimeter with Windows and colorful LCD, welcome to the 21st century. Might be useful for those who want statistic functions or such things

[Hydrawerk]

It looks familiar.

[robrenz]

People have no idea how usefull Trend plot is until they us it a while.
Visual indication of when a signal has settled and if it has any intentions of settling (logarithmic shape evidenced or not).
Stability testing of power supplies, etc. etc.

What else can graph/check the stability of a 10V signal at 10nV resolution over hours or days without a pc?
meter is zeroed before going into Trend plot in each of the three examples of a PD2005 power supply at 10V

Cold start 7mins 27 secs elapsed


4 hours 5 mins additional


3 days 17hrs 26mins additional

[c4757p]

People have no idea how usefull Trend plot is until they us it a while.

I don't have one and I drool over it every time I see yours!

Hey, that's actually a good idea. I've got a Fluke 45 with RS-232 output - I ought to spend a weekend throwing together a little receiver+display to throw on that and get a trend plot.

[ben_r_]

So Im kinda confused, how is Trending different than Datalogging if they are both done in the DMM?

[IanB]

So Im kinda confused, how is Trending different than Datalogging if they are both done in the DMM?

Trending shows you a graph of the data?

[saturation]

Yes, trend plot is great  ; you can eyeball a lot the data trends very rapidly; I lust after such a function.  I have to datacapture it from the DMM and plot it via PC 

People have no idea how usefull Trend plot is until they us it a while.

I don't have one and I drool over it every time I see yours!

Hey, that's actually a good idea. I've got a Fluke 45 with RS-232 output - I ought to spend a weekend throwing together a little receiver+display to throw on that and get a trend plot.

[ben_r_]

So Im kinda confused, how is Trending different than Datalogging if they are both done in the DMM?

Trending shows you a graph of the data?

Hmmm... Maybe. I guess more specifically where Im confused is that I have an Agilent 34450A on order and it does datalogging with a graphical OLED display and Im wondering whats lacking (if anything) in that functionality from what the 34461A offers and whether or not its just the same thing but with a color display.

[robrenz]

looks like the 34450A has  statistics and histogram but no live graphing.

[fpga]

You can "do" everything on DMMs with PC connectivity that the 34461A can, except that the 34461A also can display it in realtime without any programming. This in itself can be a huge productivity boost if you can quickly perform various different measurements quickly at will. True, you can capture the data to a PC and then run an application to do statistics or graph it, but somehow it is not the same as having it all done in front of you right there on the bench.

For manufacturing, automated testing, or calibration use, having the instrument display the data is not as useful as an automated application running on a PC that simply tells the operator GO or NO-GO. As designers and engineers, we want the data displayed right when we are probing.

[fpga]

Interesting that they removed dual display from the 34461A. All of the older models, including the 34450A could display two different measurements at the same time. The 34461A displays more than one value only with the statistics display enabled, and then only in small fonts.

[fpga]

So Im kinda confused, how is Trending different than Datalogging if they are both done in the DMM?

Trending shows you a graph of the data?

Hmmm... Maybe. I guess more specifically where Im confused is that I have an Agilent 34450A on order and it does datalogging with a graphical OLED display and Im wondering whats lacking (if anything) in that functionality from what the 34461A offers and whether or not its just the same thing but with a color display.

Don't you just hate it when they come out with a nicer and better model soon after you ordered an older model. I kind of wish I waited an extra 1.5 weeks.

[ben_r_]

So Im kinda confused, how is Trending different than Datalogging if they are both done in the DMM?

Trending shows you a graph of the data?

Hmmm... Maybe. I guess more specifically where Im confused is that I have an Agilent 34450A on order and it does datalogging with a graphical OLED display and Im wondering whats lacking (if anything) in that functionality from what the 34461A offers and whether or not its just the same thing but with a color display.

Don't you just hate it when they come out with a nicer and better model soon after you ordered an older model. I kind of wish I waited an extra 1.5 weeks.

Ha ha usually, but in this case not so much. The 34405A WAS already the "only an additional $300 more" model for me and overkill for what I need as it is. Spending $1100 on the 34461A just wasnt going to happen anyway. As it is though my Fluke 289 is plenty enough for 99% of my needs, Ive just always wanted a nice benchtop DMM. NOW, if it had been only $100 more or something like that, yea, Id have been upset.

[Rufus]

So nice. So cheap!

The 61A price is a bit less than the 34401A.

My 34401A manuals show copyright from 1991. Considering developments in the electronics industry over the last 22 years getting substantially more for your money isn't so surprising.

I think I will tentatively put one on my shopping list. Look forward to seeing a review. 

[fpga]

Ha ha usually, but in this case not so much. The 34405A WAS already the "only an additional $300 more" model for me and overkill for what I need as it is. Spending $1100 on the 34461A just wasnt going to happen anyway. As it is though my Fluke 289 is plenty enough for 99% of my needs, Ive just always wanted a nice benchtop DMM. NOW, if it had been only $100 more or something like that, yea, Id have been upset.

Actually, I just got a quote for $985.50 USD for the 34461A from an authorized distributor. I also have several cheap handheld DMMs for debugging work, but always wanted (sometimes needed) a DMM with 5.5 digit or better certified accuracy. Sometimes I need to monitor and perform V or I tracking over time as I stress test a circuit. Being able see a trend plot right there in front of you is highly valuable as opposed to capturing the data on a PC and plotting it in Excel. Doing the same using hand held DMMs is time consuming.

[ben_r_]

Ha ha usually, but in this case not so much. The 34405A WAS already the "only an additional $300 more" model for me and overkill for what I need as it is. Spending $1100 on the 34461A just wasnt going to happen anyway. As it is though my Fluke 289 is plenty enough for 99% of my needs, Ive just always wanted a nice benchtop DMM. NOW, if it had been only $100 more or something like that, yea, Id have been upset.

Actually, I just got a quote for $985.50 USD for the 34461A from an authorized distributor. I also have several cheap handheld DMMs for debugging work, but always wanted (sometimes needed) a DMM with 5.5 digit or better certified accuracy. Sometimes I need to monitor and perform V or I tracking over time as I stress test a circuit. Being able see a trend plot right there in front of you is highly valuable as opposed to capturing the data on a PC and plotting it in Excel. Doing the same using hand held DMMs is time consuming.

Stop it! Youre trying to make me feel bad for ordering the 34450A!

[fpga]

Stop it! Youre trying to make me feel bad for ordering the 34450A!

I'm returning the 34450A I just got (haven't even powered it) and ordering the 34461A. Hopefully my only loss is the shipping back and forth. I just hope Dave doesn't uncover something in his 34461A review I'll regret.

But seriously, if I had a Fluke 289, I wouldn't be able to justify to myself ordering a $1000 DMM. The Fluke 289 has stats, bar, trend, data logging, so you're right, it can do at least 95% of what any engineer would ever need. In my case my only other DMM is a cheap $50 handheld on which I don't trust to better than 10%. I was initially looking for something in the $500 range, and now the Agilent carrot on the stick led me to spending $1000.

My hope is that when they release the 34470A/34471A to replace the 34410A/34411A, that they will price it significantly higher not to tempt anyone here.