New 2GHz touchscreen scope from Tek, June 6th

[HighVoltage]

Can anyone who has access to one of these new Tek scopes take a few screen capture in high resolution with may be different menus and signals turned ON and post it here. The scope most likely has a "quick-save" button to take a snapshot to the USB drive.

All pictures and videos that I have seen so far do not really look like crisp high resolution.

I am not doubting the high quality screen, I would just enjoy looking at the details.

[Fungus]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

Yes I saw that. Very impressive

Are you sure you couldn't put something else together to do that for less than $30,000? Cheap MSO plus some resistors...?

Solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs, etc. aren't exactly fast signals.


OK, you'll run out of screen space faster but you can stack them up and get just as much information out of it for a tenth of the price.

[mikeselectricstuff]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

..provided there is a common ground. AFAICS the digital inputs are not differential, so wide input range is not a huge deal. If you needed this on other MSOs all you'd need is a few series resistors.

This is a 6.25Gsps sample rate timing analyser we are talking about here! It takes more than 'a few series resistors'  to make a probe with adequate bandwidth and flatness.

When will you ever be testing >20V digital signals that are so fast that the minor bandwidth issues of added resistors will be an issue?

[nctnico]

The Lecroy is very serious competition, and in many cases (including general use) will be better than the Tek.

Lecroy scopes (usually) don't have peak detect. For me that is a deal breaker because peak-detect is necessary to get rid of aliasing effects at lower samplerates.

[nctnico]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

Be careful, hooking up a logic analyser (with no ability to view waveform integrity) to an industrial system. You'd want to vet all those signals first to make sure no funny business was going on waveform wise.

Yes, but industrial systems are driven by PLCs so what usually happens is that the PLC is put in manual mode and each sensor and actuator is tested individually using a laptop and a DMM. When a system is running you can usually use the PLC to monitor a machine's state and progress. The whole process is pretty slow.

[EEVblog]

Dave I think in fairness to this scope I think you need to get one and use it for a while to see what hidden goodies it has to offer. Even better get that Lecroy and do a shootout

Wow, you don't say?
People have asked for asn are expecting my initial reaction this much hyped up product. I commented on some things I noticed based on that hype, I compared some high level specs of it's obvious only competitor, and I asked questions to do with practical implementation and pricing based on product price differentiation.
I'm asking questions, and not making judgement except were I see there is a clear answer, like the 4CH version demonstrably being a bit of a practical lame duck, to which not a single person has responded to.

Trying to judge it from a spec sheet and a few screen grabs is not doing it justice.

You think I don't know that?
You think I'm trying to give a comprehensive review based on a look at some web pages and datasheets? Really?

Just stop trying to brand me a Tek hater, ok?, you've made your point, now please drop it. I will not correspond with you again on this.

As for it being revolutionary perhaps you shouldn't just focus on one marketing word.

I based my initial reaction on the hyped up marketing ad the "vibe" surrounding it, what did you expect people to do?

Since its release I haven't heard from Daniel at Keysight. The silence is almost deafening LOL

The silence is also deafening in response to my questions, or anyone else at all even mentioning the main competitor to this scope that's been around for 2 years now. Not a peep. Are they too afraid they'll be branded a Tek hater too? Seems to be a sport on here.

[mikeselectricstuff]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

[EEVblog]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

Doesn't appear to.

[nctnico]

Dave I think in fairness to this scope I think you need to get one and use it for a while to see what hidden goodies it has to offer. Even better get that Lecroy and do a shootout Trying to judge it from a spec sheet and a few screen grabs is not doing it justice. From The video by TSP I could see there is a lot more to this scope than first meets the eye Like the Tek guy implied lets see how it performs with the acquisition rate. Does it slow down with some basic functions switched on like the MDO scopes do ? As for it being revolutionary perhaps you shouldn't just focus on one marketing word. It's a new scope built from the ground up with a brand new custom ASIC and obviously designed to compete head-on with the competition.

I don't think anyone really cares about custom ASICs or whatever. What counts is function versus price. I think Dave has some very valid points you try to plaster over with marketing waffle. The fact is a lot of things which Tektronix claims which are new are only new for Tektronix and not in oscilloscopes in general. Not by a long shot!

[snoopy]

Just stop trying to brand me a Tek hater, ok?, you've made your point, now please drop it. I will not correspond with you again on this.

Hi Dave

I wasn't particularly singling you out when I said that but there seems to be an underlying resentment of the brand here for some unknown reason.

cheers

[snoopy]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

On page 6 of the brochure. Magnify the image and it looks pretty much intensity graded to me It would be a huge oversight if it didn't have this and you probably would not buy it.

http://www.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/MSO5-Series-Datasheet-48W608500.pdf

[2N3055]

LO what's up with don't insult my God attitude...
Tek is no sacred cow..
I grew up with Tek analog scopes and absolutely love them..

But as many great successful companies these days, they are not run by "engineers for engineers" mentality.
They are run by economists and "marketing experts" (whatever that crap in quotes means, most of the time snake oil salesmen)
They are in the business of making money, not scopes... Scopes and T&M equipment is just market they want money from, and they have existing capability to make that kind of products.

I personally agree with Dave on this. I positively HATE marketing bullshit.

I can't help myself, this Tek marketing campaign reminds of "Behold the power of cheese" commercials long time ago..
At least they had an excuse to be, well, cheesy... 

[snoopy]

Dave I think in fairness to this scope I think you need to get one and use it for a while to see what hidden goodies it has to offer. Even better get that Lecroy and do a shootout Trying to judge it from a spec sheet and a few screen grabs is not doing it justice. From The video by TSP I could see there is a lot more to this scope than first meets the eye Like the Tek guy implied lets see how it performs with the acquisition rate. Does it slow down with some basic functions switched on like the MDO scopes do ? As for it being revolutionary perhaps you shouldn't just focus on one marketing word. It's a new scope built from the ground up with a brand new custom ASIC and obviously designed to compete head-on with the competition.

I don't think anyone really cares about custom ASICs or whatever. What counts is function versus price. I think Dave has some very valid points you try to plaster over with marketing waffle. The fact is a lot of things which Tektronix claims which are new are only new for Tektronix and not in oscilloscopes in general. Not by a long shot!

Well the Keysight fanbois are always banging on about MegaZoom ASIC this and MegaZoom ASIC that so it's only fair that Tek gets some recognition for its efforts particularly if it results in improved performance.

[snoopy]

LO what's up with don't insult my God attitude...
Tek is no sacred cow..
I grew up with Tek analog scopes and absolutely love them..

But as many great successful companies these days, they are not run by "engineers for engineers" mentality.
They are run by economists and "marketing experts" (whatever that crap in quotes means, most of the time snake oil salesmen)
They are in the business of making money, not scopes... Scopes and T&M equipment is just market they want money from, and they have existing capability to make that kind of products.

I personally agree with Dave on this. I positively HATE marketing bullshit.

I can't help myself, this Tek marketing campaign reminds of "Behold the power of cheese" commercials long time ago..
At least they had an excuse to be, well, cheesy... 

And you mean to say others don't indulge in this BS ?? Just look at the pomp,  pageantry and fanfare surrounding Keysights release of their 1000x scope LOL

They all do it.

[mikeselectricstuff]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

On page 6 of the brochure. Magnify the image and it looks pretty much intensity graded to me It would be a huge oversight if it didn't have this and you probably would not buy it.

http://www.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/MSO5-Series-Datasheet-48W608500.pdf

Hard to see from that - could just be the high-res display

[snoopy]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

On page 6 of the brochure. Magnify the image and it looks pretty much intensity graded to me It would be a huge oversight if it didn't have this and you probably would not buy it.

http://www.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/MSO5-Series-Datasheet-48W608500.pdf

Hard to see from that - could just be the high-res display

To my eyes the top yellow and light blue trace definitely shows intensity grading. Not so easy to see on the red trace below it.

[2N3055]

And you mean to say others don't indulge in this BS ?? Just look at the pomp,  pageantry and fanfare surrounding Keysights release of their 1000x scope LOL

They all do it.

Well, I didn't say that. I wrote the same thing in "new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004" bullshit from R&S..

If anything, you might say i really want for Tek to be first to go back to being "old Tek" so I'm a bit critical to them.

And as you mentioned Keysight, now you're asking, they seem to be a bit more "subdued" and "tasteful" about it..
I guess they have  better marketing guys...  So they are not selling right out "snake oil", they at least know to wrap it in politically correct package..

They are ALL in the business.. I just expect them not to insult us.. That's all. And some of them are little better at that...

And fanboys are fanboys.. For any brand...

[KE5FX]

Since its release I haven't heard from Daniel at Keysight.

As long as Tek scopes force the user to compromise between update rate and record size with a "Fast Acq" button or similar kludge, they're never going to entirely obliterate the competition from Keysight's MegaZoom ASIC. 

And I say that as someone with a serious case of gadget lust for the new 5-series. 

[EEVblog]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

On page 6 of the brochure. Magnify the image and it looks pretty much intensity graded to me It would be a huge oversight if it didn't have this and you probably would not buy it.

http://www.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/MSO5-Series-Datasheet-48W608500.pdf

Hard to see from that - could just be the high-res display

Could be.
The histogram shows a similar display, and it's much more prominent in other examples.
Why would a histogram have intensity grading?
High end scopes like this, what you could call "analysis" scopes often don't have intensity graded displays. They just aren't designed as everyday use scopes in which users expect "analog like" intensity grading functionality.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's just with the DPO FastAcq, at least as goodas you expect it on other scopes. Otherwise it would be a feature, surely? Although I don't recall Tek ever having a marketing spec for this in terms of "intensity levels" like the other scope makers do.
Tek intensity grading is called Digital Phosphor, and if you look at the likes of say the DPO2000 scope is specifically mentions it with reference to FastAcq
But the MSO 5 seems to deliberately tie to two together:

Digital Phosphor technology with FastAcq™ highspeed
waveform capture
To debug a design problem, first you must know it exists. Digital phosphor
technology with FastAcq provides you with fast insight into the real
operation of your device. Its fast waveform capture rate - greater than
500,000 waveforms per second - gives you a high probability of seeing the
infrequent problems common in digital systems: runt pulses, glitches, timing
issues, and more. To further enhance the visibility of rarely occurring
events, intensity grading indicates how often rare transients are occurring
relative to normal signal characteristics.

[Omicron]

So far I haven't seen any evidence that the scope does intensity grading oher than in FastAcq mode - can anyone confirm or deny ?

It would surprising if it hadn't as every Tek scope apart from the bottom of the line ones have had it for ages. That being said the Keysight implementation of it is generally more pleasing to the eye I find. On Tek scopes it also seems to depend on the memory depth setting. The more memory you select the nicer the display becomes so the grading seems to be not only a time persistence thing but also a way to represent the larger sample buffer on screen. That might be another difference with the Keysight implementation. The fastaq mode works differently and there the grading is purely based on how often a pixel is hit time wise. You also get the colour grading views there. This is just based on what I see here (I have an MDO4000 and a DSOX-3000 in my lab). It would be interesting to know the details of the algorithms both use.

[EEVblog]

Watch Alan's video, doesn't look very intensity graded to me on that video or waveform. At least not what you'd expect on other scopes with 256 level intensity grading.
Is a high res copy of this video available?

[nctnico]

Since its release I haven't heard from Daniel at Keysight.

As long as Tek scopes force the user to compromise between update rate and record size with a "Fast Acq" button or similar kludge, they're never going to entirely obliterate the competition from Keysight's MegaZoom ASIC. 

Keysight's MegaZoom ASIC comes with a lot of limitations. Short memory for starters and let's not forget sampled data cannot be re-protocol-decoded with different settings. I need deep memory way more often than high update rates.

[KE5FX]

Keysight's MegaZoom ASIC comes with a lot of limitations. Short memory for starters and let's not forget sampled data cannot be re-protocol-decoded with different settings. I need deep memory way more often than high update rates.

Yes, that horse has been beaten to death, beaten some more, sent to the glue factory, and used to assemble a piñata.

The point remains.  There are a few good ways to do real-time record data processing and many, many ways to do it wrong, and it's unfortunate that Tek still appears to be doing it wrong.

[Omicron]

Watch Alan's video, doesn't look very intensity graded to me on that video or waveform. At least not what you'd expect on other scopes with 256 level intensity grading.
Is a high res copy of this video available?

If you look at the memory setting down below it says 100kpts. The composite video waveform looks about what I'd expect from a Tek scope at that setting. If he'd pick a larger memory like say 1Mpts it will look more like what you see on a Keysight. But like I said, the Keysight is generally more pleasing visually. On the Tek it really depends on how you set it up, it looks like this new scope is in line with the older ones in that regard. This is just based on my experience with the MDO4000, I've never seen this new scope in real life.

Also, you really wouldn't be able to do the XYZ on a scope that has no intensity grading at all.

[Omicron]

The point remains.  There are a few good ways to do real-time record data processing and many, many ways to do it wrong, and it's unfortunate that Tek still appears to be doing it wrong.

That really depends on your point of view. The Keysight is at a disadvantage when it comes to measurements since it can't do measurements on the complete data buffer but only on a reduced set. For example try and measure the rise time and pulse width of a signal at the same time on the Keysight. You'll find you can't do it with optimum accuracy for both measurements at the same time, you have to pick one or the other. The Tek way of doing things has no problem with this, all you need for maximum measurement accuracy is sample rate: if you set your scope so it's sampling at it's maximum rate then all the time measurements you do will be at maximum accuracy regardless of your time base setting.

Things are always a trade off. Only marketing lives in a perfect world :-)