New 2GHz touchscreen scope from Tek, June 6th

[Dubbie]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

[snoopy]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

Yes I saw that. Very impressive

[EEVblog]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

Be careful, hooking up a logic analyser (with no ability to view waveform integrity) to an industrial system. You'd want to vet all those signals first to make sure no funny business was going on waveform wise.
And it seems like massive overkill to do that with an expensive scope and probes like this though, you'd be talking really low speed stuff here. You wouldn't buy the scope for this application, nor fork out $18k just for the probes required to do this!
But sure, if you happen to have the $18k in probes and the $20k+ scope lying around, why not.

[EEVblog]

I must have missed something. Can you not hookup a bigger screen and possible get higher resolution or is HD 1920x1080 the limit ?

They'd be crowing about it if you could.
Otherwise marketing missed a huge big feature item.

[EEVblog]

I can see why the case costs almost $1k

[ebastler]

I can see why the case costs almost $1k

Looks like a Peli case. $250 if you buy it from a less ambitious outfit...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/569065-REG/Hardigg_Storm_Case_IM2750_00001_iM2750_Storm_Trak_Case.html

[BrianH_Tektronix]

So let's compare:
- The HDO8000A is $25,800 (+ digital probes I think, don't have pricing). The Tek MSO58 is $21,200 + probes. So yes, base model is more affordable, but again, you sacrifice analog channels for digital.
- (Without having used either) The Lecroy Ultra HD external screen support beats the Tek hands down, could be a deal maker there.

And I'm sure we can fuss over fine performance details until the cows come home here, but banner specs:
- The Lecroy has 8+16+1 external trigger, the Tek only has 6+16. But tek wins if you need >16CH digital.
- Both have 12 bit ADC
- The Lecroy has up to 250M sample memory/channel, beating the Tek's 125M.
- The Lecroy has 10GS/s (on all channels too) beating Tek's 6.25GS/s on all channels.
- The Tek can go to 2GHz (with different hardware front end), winner there if you need to bandwidth.
- Lecroy digital sample rate is lower at only 1.25GS/s compared to 6.25GS/s on Tek. But probably no major practical difference for everyday use?
- Lecroy matches Tek with 125M digital sample memory option.
- I'm led to believe the Tek has more flexible digital input voltage range? +/-30V (<200MHz) compared to Lecroy's +/-20V (full bandwidth?). Needs more investigation.

The Lecroy appears to be 10 Gs/s with only one channel switched on and possibly some DSP cheating algorithm !! So the more channels you need the lower the sampling rate 

They claim all channels, but yes, it involves some cheating. It's actually 2.5GS/s for each channel, which is plenty for the 300MHz and 500MHz models.
So a general use scope, the Lecroy offers more channels and bigger external UI, you know, the stuff that matters, and the stuff that Tek were crowing about as supposedly "game changing".

Also it has a much smaller screen than the Tek

It has support for a much bigger external screen. If you are analysing data then this matters, a lot.
Tek claim to have the biggest UI, they don't.

I must have missed something. Can you not hookup a bigger screen and possible get higher resolution or is HD 1920x1080 the limit ?

cheers

The Tek 5 Series MSO most certainly has the biggest screen, and high definition making it the highest resolution screen on the market. Many scopes on the market have external outputs that allow higher resolution. That isn't new, and how many people will go out and buy a bigger screen in their lab when the scope has a big enough one. 

The 5 Series MSO can handle up to 2560x1440 @ 60Hz via displayport, not a marketing miss, just not as important as the already HD screen provided.

I"m surprised waveform capture rate, DVM, Frequency counter, AFG or operating system aren't mentioned as values.   

[ebclr]

Unfortunately price is as big as the screen

[rx8pilot]

Here in Los Angeles - it would be about $600-$700 for the case plus a custom interior as a one-off plus your time to figure it out and generally about 4-5 weeks to get it. If I purchased this scope and needed to drag it around - I would not mess around with making my own. The minor savings would not be worth it. Plus, I suspect the list price is subject to discounts after you spend $20k+ on the scope.

This is pro gear that people use to make money. Most of my career has been using expensive stuff in the field - cases are just part of the price.

[Tom45]

I can see why the case costs almost $1k

If someone has just spent 20K to 40K for a scope, they would probably want to take really good care of it when travelling.

[EEVblog]

The Tek 5 Series MSO most certainly has the biggest screen, and high definition making it the highest resolution screen on the market. Many scopes on the market have external outputs that allow higher resolution. That isn't new, and how many people will go out and buy a bigger screen in their lab when the scope has a big enough one. 

The same people who want to measure and analyser 8 channel + math etc + 64 digital channels? 
When you have that much stuff to analyse you need screen realeastate. And yes yours is the biggest built in screen in the industry, but there is a reason why your direct competitors scope has a specific banner feature of a useable tabbed 3840X2160 desktop.

The 5 Series MSO can handle up to 2560x1440 @ 60Hz via displayport, not a marketing miss, just not as important as the already HD screen provided.

Are you confirming that the 5 series can actually scale and make use of the full external resolution for signal analysis? i.e. it's not just 1920x1080 scaled up?
It is a marketing miss because your only direct competitor's[/i  comparable scope banner feature is a high res tab display capability 
The only reason you are not crowing about is because yours isn't as good (2560x1440 vs 3840X2160)
Still want to argue with my point that your scope doesn't have the biggest UI?

[Someone]

I can see why the case costs almost $1k

Looks like a Peli case. $250 if you buy it from a less ambitious outfit...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/569065-REG/Hardigg_Storm_Case_IM2750_00001_iM2750_Storm_Trak_Case.html

Its not a Pelican case, its missing their special latches. You can quickly find that its one of the low cost imitators:
http://www.casecruzer.com

[snoopy]

So let's compare:
- The HDO8000A is $25,800 (+ digital probes I think, don't have pricing). The Tek MSO58 is $21,200 + probes. So yes, base model is more affordable, but again, you sacrifice analog channels for digital.
- (Without having used either) The Lecroy Ultra HD external screen support beats the Tek hands down, could be a deal maker there.

And I'm sure we can fuss over fine performance details until the cows come home here, but banner specs:
- The Lecroy has 8+16+1 external trigger, the Tek only has 6+16. But tek wins if you need >16CH digital.
- Both have 12 bit ADC
- The Lecroy has up to 250M sample memory/channel, beating the Tek's 125M.
- The Lecroy has 10GS/s (on all channels too) beating Tek's 6.25GS/s on all channels.
- The Tek can go to 2GHz (with different hardware front end), winner there if you need to bandwidth.
- Lecroy digital sample rate is lower at only 1.25GS/s compared to 6.25GS/s on Tek. But probably no major practical difference for everyday use?
- Lecroy matches Tek with 125M digital sample memory option.
- I'm led to believe the Tek has more flexible digital input voltage range? +/-30V (<200MHz) compared to Lecroy's +/-20V (full bandwidth?). Needs more investigation.

The Lecroy appears to be 10 Gs/s with only one channel switched on and possibly some DSP cheating algorithm !! So the more channels you need the lower the sampling rate 

They claim all channels, but yes, it involves some cheating. It's actually 2.5GS/s for each channel, which is plenty for the 300MHz and 500MHz models.
So a general use scope, the Lecroy offers more channels and bigger external UI, you know, the stuff that matters, and the stuff that Tek were crowing about as supposedly "game changing".

Also it has a much smaller screen than the Tek

It has support for a much bigger external screen. If you are analysing data then this matters, a lot.
Tek claim to have the biggest UI, they don't.

I must have missed something. Can you not hookup a bigger screen and possible get higher resolution or is HD 1920x1080 the limit ?

cheers

The Tek 5 Series MSO most certainly has the biggest screen, and high definition making it the highest resolution screen on the market. Many scopes on the market have external outputs that allow higher resolution. That isn't new, and how many people will go out and buy a bigger screen in their lab when the scope has a big enough one. 

The 5 Series MSO can handle up to 2560x1440 @ 60Hz via displayport, not a marketing miss, just not as important as the already HD screen provided.

I"m surprised waveform capture rate, DVM, Frequency counter, AFG or operating system aren't mentioned as values.   

Hi Brian

Don't you know yet. It's a favourite past time to bash Tek scopes here so they like to dwell on things they can nit pick at and ignore things which in many cases other scopes don't have like 6.25 Gs/s sample rate across all 8 channels BTW I'd be happy with a HD display on any scope I have. The biggest display on a scope I have is 8 inch at 800x480 and I thought that was quite acceptable.

cheers

[Eric_S]

@EEVblog

Not to be that guy, but the 8-chan LeCroy's been around for longer then 2 months. The -A is just an updated version.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/teledyne-lecroy-announces-motor-drive-power-analyzer-software-for-hdo8000-oscilloscopes-277572471.html

...

Now it sounds like I work for LeCroy... We've got one hdo8k in house and have had it for about two years, otherwise we're all Tek and the scope side and quite happily so at the moment.

[EEVblog]

Don't you know yet. It's a favourite past time to bash Tek scopes here so they like to dwell on things they can nit pick at and ignore things which in many cases other scopes don't have like 6.25 Gs/s sample rate across all 8 channels BTW I'd be happy with a HD display on any scope I have. The biggest display on a scope I have is 8 inch at 800x480 and I thought that was quite acceptable.

Seriously?
This is a discussion thread on the new Tek 5 series scope. Are you saying it's "Tek bashing" to mention the one and essentially only competitor? Really?

No one is ignoring the 6.25GS/s across all 8 channels, it's great, it's phenomenal, it's *insert superlative*, but is it not fair to compare basic stuff like the touted 12 bit sample rate and the number of channels. Is that "nit picking"?

[EEVblog]

@EEVblog
Not to be that guy, but the 8-chan LeCroy's been around for longer then 2 months. The -A is just an updated version.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/teledyne-lecroy-announces-motor-drive-power-analyzer-software-for-hdo8000-oscilloscopes-277572471.html
Now it sounds like I work for LeCroy... We've got one hdo8k in house and have had it for about two years, otherwise we're all Tek and the scope side and quite happily so at the moment.

You are not "that guy", I always stand to be corrected.
So Tek have just matched (and improved in some cases, and not in others) what Lecroy had two years ago, got it, thanks.

[snoopy]

Don't you know yet. It's a favourite past time to bash Tek scopes here so they like to dwell on things they can nit pick at and ignore things which in many cases other scopes don't have like 6.25 Gs/s sample rate across all 8 channels BTW I'd be happy with a HD display on any scope I have. The biggest display on a scope I have is 8 inch at 800x480 and I thought that was quite acceptable.

Seriously?
This is a discussion thread on the new Tek 5 series scope. Are you saying it's "Tek bashing" to mention the one and essentially only competitor? Really?

No one is ignoring the 6.25GS/s across all 8 channels, it's great, it's phenomenal, it's *insert superlative*, but is it not fair to compare basic stuff like the touted 12 bit sample rate and the number of channels. Is that "nit picking"?

No Dave I just think that saying that a standalone scope is not as good as another scope that can optionally drive an external display at twice the resolution is nit picking considering that we are talking about a standalone, mobile scope and nothing you have reviewed to date even comes close to the resolution of this Tek scope !! I'm sure Tek could have built a scope with a 54 inch 4K LCD display but then you would have bagged it for not being portable LOL

[mikeselectricstuff]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

..provided there is a common ground. AFAICS the digital inputs are not differential, so wide input range is not a huge deal. If you needed this on other MSOs all you'd need is a few series resistors.

[EEVblog]

No Dave I just think that saying that a standalone scope is not as good as another scope that can optionally drive an external display at twice the resolution is nit picking considering that we are talking about a standalone, mobile scope

Speak for yourself, there is no "we".
I'm simply pointing something out I think might be important to a comparison or people's buying decision.
I think it's a fairly important feature on a high channel count scope with tons of high end analysis options. Lecroy seem to agree otherwise they wouldn't have:
1) geared their UI around such a scale-able tabbed UI architecture
2) marketed it as a main feature
3) given it a name and got a trademark on it (it's called Q-Scape BTW)
4) written dedicated feature brochures for it:

http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/q-scape-datasheet.pdf



Does the Tek have this feature or not? It's a reasonable question.

[nfmax]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

..provided there is a common ground. AFAICS the digital inputs are not differential, so wide input range is not a huge deal. If you needed this on other MSOs all you'd need is a few series resistors.

This is a 6.25Gsps sample rate timing analyser we are talking about here! It takes more than 'a few series resistors'  to make a probe with adequate bandwidth and flatness.

[snoopy]

No Dave I just think that saying that a standalone scope is not as good as another scope that can optionally drive an external display at twice the resolution is nit picking considering that we are talking about a standalone, mobile scope

Speak for yourself, there is no "we".
I'm simply pointing something out I think might be important to a comparison or people's buying decision.
I think it's a fairly important feature on a high channel count scope with tons of high end analysis options. Lecroy seem to agree otherwise they wouldn't have:
1) geared their UI around such a scale-able tabbed UI architecture
2) marketed it as a main feature
3) given it a name and got a trademark on it (it's called Q-Scape BTW)
4) written dedicated feature brochures for it:

http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/q-scape-datasheet.pdf



Does the Tek have this feature or not? It's a reasonable question.

What's the resolution of this standalone Lecroy ?? Obviously not HD which is probably why they emphasize the external display option !!

For a scope you can take from one bench to another or one place to another the Tek scope is obviously better from a resolution and size perspective. To me the 6.25Gs/s and 2GHz bandwidth is more important particularly for 100MHz and up memory subsystems testing

cheers

[EEVblog]

What's the resolution of this standalone Lecroy ?? Obviously not HD !!
For a scope you can take from one bench to another or one place to another the Tek scope is obviously better from a resolution and size perspective. To me the 6.25Gs/s and 2GHz bandwidth is more important particularly for 100MHz and up memory subsystems testing

 
Have you not understood a word I have said?
I said the Tek has the best HD screen, more than once.

If the 6.25GS/s and 2GHz is more important to you then I'm ecstatic for you, so ecstatic that I'm going internally berserk, congratulations. But how does that relate to my posting a question regarding the scopes functionally, and saying that the Lecroy appears to have the (much) better UI option for detailed signal analysis that, you know, other people might find important for their requirements?

[EEVblog]

snoopy, Shariar on his video gave a good example of where a ton of "digital" channels could be useful. Because they are +-40V threshold, you could hook them up to some sort of industrial system where you have a whole lot of on/off type sensor input such as solenoids, valves, limit switches, encoder outputs etc. and keep track of an entire huge system on one instrument.

..provided there is a common ground. AFAICS the digital inputs are not differential, so wide input range is not a huge deal. If you needed this on other MSOs all you'd need is a few series resistors.

This is a 6.25Gsps sample rate timing analyser we are talking about here! It takes more than 'a few series resistors'  to make a probe with adequate bandwidth and flatness.

Mike is talking about the industrial test scenario the Shahriar proposed. Mike is right, such a scenario could be done with any MSO and some extra resistors without paying $14k for the Tek probes.

[BU508A]

Have you not understood a word I have said?
I said the Tek has the best HD screen, more than once.

He has.
But he is refusing to admit it.
Cheap rhetorical trick.

[snoopy]

What's the resolution of this standalone Lecroy ?? Obviously not HD !!
For a scope you can take from one bench to another or one place to another the Tek scope is obviously better from a resolution and size perspective. To me the 6.25Gs/s and 2GHz bandwidth is more important particularly for 100MHz and up memory subsystems testing

 
Have you not understood a word I have said?
I said the Tek has the best HD screen, more than once.

If the 6.25GS/s and 2GHz is more important to you then I'm ecstatic for you, so ecstatic that I'm going internally berserk, congratulations. But how does that relate to my posting a question regarding the scopes functionally, and saying that the Lecroy appears to have the (much) better UI option for detailed signal analysis that, you know, other people might find important for their requirements?

Dave I think in fairness to this scope I think you need to get one and use it for a while to see what hidden goodies it has to offer. Even better get that Lecroy and do a shootout Trying to judge it from a spec sheet and a few screen grabs is not doing it justice. From The video by TSP I could see there is a lot more to this scope than first meets the eye Like the Tek guy implied lets see how it performs with the acquisition rate. Does it slow down with some basic functions switched on like the MDO scopes do ? As for it being revolutionary perhaps you shouldn't just focus on one marketing word. It's a new scope built from the ground up with a brand new custom ASIC and obviously designed to compete head-on with the competition. Since its release I haven't heard from Daniel at Keysight. The silence is almost deafening LOL