New 2GHz touchscreen scope from Tek, June 6th

[TK]

Unfortunately the probe required to connect to the interface is obviously a delicate and expensive item that they just cannot give away, but as a one time offer they are pricing each probe at just north > US$1K.  Mate, but three or four, you won't regret it,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but previous MSO scopes like the MDO3000/4000, MSO3000 etc are all "MSO" scopes and they come with the 16 channel digital probe for free.
But the new "MSO" 54/56/58, although sold as an "MSO" do not come with digital probes, and it will cost you $1800 extra for each 8 channels, or $3600 extra for what you got for free with existing "MSO" Tek scopes?
If so, should these not be sold as "DSO54/6/8"?

Tek is selling FlexChannels, so technically it should be named FSO (Flex Storage Oscilloscope), or as Dave says, just plain DSO, because you cannot use it as MSO unless you pay the $1800 ransom money for each 8 digital channels

[djnz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but previous MSO scopes like the MDO3000/4000, MSO3000 etc are all "MSO" scopes and they come with the 16 channel digital probe for free.

This is not true for the MDO3000 series - it does not come with any logic probes as standard. You need to buy the MDO3MSO option to enable the MSO software in the scope and that option price also includes a logic probe. They also sell the probe separately (probably for replacements), but just plugging it in the probe does not automatically enable the MSO functionality.

[Fungus]

It would have been really nice to have a dedicated channel button above each input connector.

It does!

[EEVblog]

It would have been really nice to have a dedicated channel button above each input connector.

It does!

I said above 

But ok, I presumed they might have vanished depending upon other menu items, but possibly they are permanent?

[Fungus]

But ok, I presumed they might have vanished depending upon other menu items, but possibly they are permanent?

I can't think of any reason they would vanish. The demo videos show everything done with popup windows.

[snoopy]

Guess who has got a MSO58 to play with and review

[EEVblog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but previous MSO scopes like the MDO3000/4000, MSO3000 etc are all "MSO" scopes and they come with the 16 channel digital probe for free.

This is not true for the MDO3000 series - it does not come with any logic probes as standard. You need to buy the MDO3MSO option to enable the MSO software in the scope and that option price also includes a logic probe. They also sell the probe separately (probably for replacements), but just plugging it in the probe does not automatically enable the MSO functionality.

It is true for the MDO4000:
https://www.testequity.com/products/4206/

Includes: (4) TPP1000 1 GHz, 10x, Low C passive probes (MDO4104-3 / MDO4104-6) or (4) TPP0500 500 MHz, 10x, Low C passive probes (MDO4054-3 / MDO4054-6 / MDO4034-3 / MDO4014-3), (1) P6616 16-channel digital probe, N-to-BNC Adapter N-to-BNC Adapter, Power Cord, User Manual, Software Kit (NI LabVIEW SignalExpress™ Tektronix Edition LE Software OpenChoice™ Desktop Software), Documentation CD, Front panel cover, Calibration Certificate, and an Accessory Bag.

Plus other scopes like the MSO3000 and MSO5000.
Even Tek's cheap MSO2000:
https://www.testequity.com/products/4659/
Which ironically, costs about $1800 for a 2+16CH scope with the digital probes, they same price as one 8CH probe for the new 5 series 
If only they had used that existing 16CH connector they could have thrown in a FREE MSO2000 with every MSO5x for every one of the 8 channels!

Imagine that bundle! - Buy an MSO58 and get 8 FREE MSO2000's! 

[BrianH_Tektronix]

I like the 12-bit ADC, the 1080p large screen and the 500uV vertical. Not enough to justify the ridiculous pricing though.

I like the new scope, you've got to give Tek props for continuing to bring out new designs on what would have been a massive design effort on this one.
Although to be honest I don't see anything really new here.
It's not the first big touch screen scope.
It's not the first 8 channel scope.

Glad you like the new scope Dave, I think whats been discussed here in the forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of features and capabilities.

We never claimed it was the first big touch screen scope. Though, it is the largest screen on the market at 15.6 inches and the highest resolution screen at 1920x1080.
We never claimed it was the first 8 channel scope on the market. But it is the first 4, 6, 8 combination scope on the market, and it is the only 6 channel model.
Its also the first scope that has the flexibility of the FlexChannel input (each input is 1 analog or 8 digital channels)
Its also the first scope at 2GHz and 8 channels
Its also the first scope to have up to 64 digital channels
Its also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
Its also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting. Only other scope that i'm aware on the market is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.
Its also is fastest scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate)
It has the highest standard memory at 62.5 Mpts Record length in its class
It has one of the best service plan options, with the Tektronix Total Protection Plan
It comes standard with up to 8 passive probes, where the HDO8000A comes with 4.
It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance
It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.
Only scope over 4 channels with a DVM, AFG, and frequency counter.

These are just the tip of the iceberg Dave. The details behind all of them are impressive and many are market leading.  Glad you can admire a great design when you see one 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Something Shariar said caught my attention - he implied that the intensity/rainbow display mode was only available in fastAcq mode ( i.e. small memory).
Is this the case ?

[diyaudio]

I like the 12-bit ADC, the 1080p large screen and the 500uV vertical. Not enough to justify the ridiculous pricing though.

I like the new scope, you've got to give Tek props for continuing to bring out new designs on what would have been a massive design effort on this one.
Although to be honest I don't see anything really new here.
It's not the first big touch screen scope.
It's not the first 8 channel scope.

Glad you like the new scope Dave, I think whats been discussed here in the forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of features and capabilities.

We never claimed it was the first big touch screen scope. Though, it is the largest screen on the market at 15.6 inches and the highest resolution screen at 1920x1080.
We never claimed it was the first 8 channel scope on the market. But it is the first 4, 6, 8 combination scope on the market, and it is the only 6 channel model.
Its also the first scope that has the flexibility of the FlexChannel input (each input is 1 analog or 8 digital channels)
Its also the first scope at 2GHz and 8 channels
Its also the first scope to have up to 64 digital channels
Its also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
Its also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting. Only other scope that i'm aware on the market is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.
Its also is fastest scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate)
It has the highest standard memory at 62.5 Mpts Record length in its class
It has one of the best service plan options, with the Tektronix Total Protection Plan
It comes standard with up to 8 passive probes, where the HDO8000A comes with 4.
It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance
It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.
Only scope over 4 channels with a DVM, AFG, and frequency counter.

These are just the tip of the iceberg Dave. The details behind all of them are impressive and many are market leading.  Glad you can admire a great design when you see one 

Looks like Dave aint getting a scope from Tek hey!, my theory was right.

[TiN]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but previous MSO scopes like the MDO3000/4000, MSO3000 etc are all "MSO" scopes and they come with the 16 channel digital probe for free.

This is not true for the MDO3000 series - it does not come with any logic probes as standard. You need to buy the MDO3MSO option to enable the MSO software in the scope and that option price also includes a logic probe. They also sell the probe separately (probably for replacements), but just plugging it in the probe does not automatically enable the MSO functionality.

It is true for the MDO4000:
https://www.testequity.com/products/4206/

It's not for latest MDO4000C, where logic analyzer is optional.

[Koen]

Ho, that's sad. I really enjoyed hearing him whine and call the recent OWON XDS3202A a fail because he had to hold a button pressed to power it up. This is the kind of insight we need.

[nctnico]

Its also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting. Only other scope that i'm aware on the market is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.

AFAIK 500uV/div is standard on some other scopes as well. With so many different oscilloscopes out there it is very hard to come up with something which is truly new. Sure the combination in one device may be new but a lot of things have already been done. Anyway, I guess this oscilloscope will be beyond my budget for at least a decade.

[RGB255_0_0]

Why do double tap when touch in Windows is normally hold down to get the menu? Plug in a mouse and start double clicking to get a menu? 

[BrianH_Tektronix]

Why do double tap when touch in Windows is normally hold down to get the menu? Plug in a mouse and start double clicking to get a menu? 

First off, the default OS isn't windows. If you do order the windows option we needed something that was consistent. There are always design decisions when you have to combine touch and mouse. For instance what to do with a double click on a mouse, a single click, a right click, a scroll. Or in touch, you have single tap, double tap, or hold. It made a lot of sense across two operating systems to combine multiple functions like single tap and single mouse click. Or double click and double tap. and right click and tap and hold. The more you drive the 5 Series MSO, it really is intuitive, and if you switch between OS or touch and a mouse its seamless.   

[djnz]

I don't quite understand the obsession with 'new'. If a scope has nothing 'world's first', but is reasonably modern and made so that everything actually works as specified with minimal bugs or any nasty gotchas, I'd still consider it a good unit.

This could be that scope, but the list price seems untenable. 

[genghisnico13]

Video preview from Shahriar available:

[hs3]

I don't quite understand the obsession with 'new'. If a scope has nothing 'world's first', but is reasonably modern and made so that everything actually works as specified with minimal bugs or any nasty gotchas, I'd still consider it a good unit.

I think a lot of the discussion about 'new' features in this topic might be a response to the marketing material which sometimes felt like it was calling every feature of the scope a new innovation. Ok, an exaggeration probably and I'm not sure what the exact words used were but that was just the feel I personally got when reading it. A little more restrained expression might have had better results in this case.

[tautech]

Its also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting. Only other scope that i'm aware on the market is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.

AFAIK 500uV/div is standard on some other scopes as well.

Correct. All SDS1000X and 1202X-E models.
SDS1000X models for ~2 years.

[Hydron]

Despite the criticism, it looks like there are a lot of things to really like about this scope - all brands have their issues and annoyances. Its particularly good to see more manufacturers put proper sized screens and >8-bit ADCs in stuff - a large part of the reason I bought the new R&S scope was that they did both of these in a mid-range unit.

All that said, what annoys me (and I'm sure others) is the marketing fluff about things being "revolutionary" when other brands have being doing them for years! That's guaranteed to piss engineers off for no reason - I don't need a feature to be new to buy it, I just want it for it's own sake, especially if it's done well. Prime examples are the touchscreen and display stacking claims, both of which have been done well before, despite the claims in the Tek datasheet. Talk about how you've managed to put all these great things into one unit and show people how they help, not that they are new when they aren't!

I also agree with Dave that a smaller number separate MSO inputs seems more sensible than sacrificing an expensive analogue input to add an expensive digital pod, but I guess this is a strategic decision so it is what it is - maybe it really is the best way to do it for the target market (at these prices, not me).

It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.

Just a quick query about these low-C probes - are they really 10x attenuation? Elsewhere I've seen that they use 250k termination (plus 9.75M probe resistance) when plugged in, and and are actually 40x (which makes the 4pF number possible).
If this is the case, are there disadvantages regarding noise or the <1mV/div ranges when using such a large attenuation? Not saying they aren't great (4pF, high DC impedance, and totally passive is a killer combo) but if there are other disadvantages compared with normal 10x probes then it's a bit misleading.

[Hugoneus]

Why do double tap when touch in Windows is normally hold down to get the menu? Plug in a mouse and start double clicking to get a menu? 

I found this to be MUCH faster than holding finger on the screen. A lot of people have trouble with long-hold on the screen and they drag while they are on the screen.

[effectivebits]

I don't quite understand the obsession with 'new'. If a scope has nothing 'world's first', but is reasonably modern and made so that everything actually works as specified with minimal bugs or any nasty gotchas, I'd still consider it a good unit.

Some inside baseball - many times a "new" oscilloscope comes out, but those of us in the business see the old scope in a new outfit.  All manufacturers do this - they will put a big screen on an old scope and call it revolutionary.  Well.... we don't do it that often, but others do! 

There are pluses and minuses to this incremental approach.

The 5 series is truly totally new.  Not just a new box or a new UI, but a totally new ASIC chipset running the scope.  You realize that the more you use it and see the feature set.  Apple might spin their chips yearly, but that doesn't happen in T&M.  Too expensive.  Of course, what's under the hood only matters if it makes the product better.  In my humble estimation, it does make the product better, but I'm sure there are corner cases where people wish we did it differently.  But some of the more over-the-top exuberance is a combination of standard marketing hype (iPhone 7 is totally revolutionary and nothing like the iPhone 6S) but also genuine excitement from the Tektronix engineers who know how much technology lies under the hood to make this type of product happen.

Also, BrianH forgot to mention the anti-collapse feet.  I think every scope we've made for forever used the same little plastic feet.  This scope has the most awesomely overdesigned feet I've ever seen on an oscilloscope!  I think SignalPath blog shows it in his video at 7:25.  No crushed fingers!

[mtdoc]

Excellent overview video by Shahriar. 

It really is a drool-worthy scope.  Large high def touchscreen with what appears to be a fast and responsive, well thought out interface. 12 bits, deep memory and full 6.5 Gs/S on every channel - impressive.  But the price even at the low end is in the "if you have to ask..." territory.  And the Flex Channel thing - while perhaps offering some advantages - has several disadvantages as Dave points out - and for that price?  Clear corporate profit motive behind it IMO.

Anyways - a scope of this class is way beyond me and any hobbyist, yet I think its release along with the recent R & S release points to larger, higher def touch screens and higher bit ADCs are the future for scopes and eventually will likely trickle down into the modest spec, affordable for home use scopes.

And yeah - those anti-collapse feet are the bomb!  I don't know why other manufacturers haven't done this.  That feature cannot be high cost and should be on every scope in any price range (and probably soon will be).

[egonotto]

Hi

BrianH_Tektronix wrote:
"
Its also is fastest scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC
"
No Keysight Technologies
Infiniium S-Series has 10 Bit and 10GS/s per channel

But your new scope has with 6.25GS/s only 8 Bit and not 12 Bit.
12 Bits only with 3.125 GS/s

Best regards
egonotto

[effectivebits]

Just a quick query about these low-C probes - are they really 10x attenuation? Elsewhere I've seen that they use 250k termination (plus 9.75M probe resistance) when plugged in, and and are actually 40x (which makes the 4pF number possible).

I believe the scope input itself might be 250k (there is a "termination" test in the UI), but the net effect is a 10x probe with low capacitance.  There is a special ASIC which enables it.

There is some confusion because other vendors (Tek included) ALSO offer a Zo probe which is low capacitance but also high attenuation (or 10x attenuation but low DC resistance).  LeCroy PP066, Tektronix P6150, Keysight N2874/6A - all are "transmission line" probes and typically have only about 1k of input impedance, but low capacitance and high bandwidth.

The TPP1000 and other probes are a new architecture in passive probes and require a scope with the ASIC.  There is a white paper here on the technology:
http://www.tek.com/document/application-note/low-capacitance-probes-minimize-impact-circuit-operation-1

Two other benefits of the low capacitance probes.  Yes they are 1GHz with a short ground lead, but lower input capacitance means you can even get 500MHz with a ground lead, which is not the case for most 10M passive probes.

And, there is the TPP0502 which gets you 500MHz of BW but only 2x attenuation - great for low noise applications!

http://www.effectivebits.net/2011/09/probe-attenuation-overlooked.html