New 2GHz touchscreen scope from Tek, June 6th

[snoopy]

As predicted, the new FlexChannel inputs are 8 digital channels mixed with an analog
Can someone please explain to me the advantage of this over just having normal external digital connectors? Why the need for an entirely new probe system?
(being cool and having marketing flare doesn't count)

Reduced real estate on the front panel considering that there are 8 channels and most of the scope is occupied by the screen.

Nope, not buying it.
This would have been a high level strategic decision way back at the start of the scope design.

But surely if they had of done it like on the MDO with a separate connector for the LA they would have required 8 additional sockets on the scope and this would have made the scope even bigger !! They obviously drew the line on the size of the scope.

[H.O]

With all the Buzz going around in the last few weeks, I really had expected more innovation.
The only real new innovation that I see is: 8 Channels!

This is probably a very nice scope with lots of good features but to me it does not stand out as something amazing!

And Yokagawa have been making 8 channels scopes for a while so that's not really new or innovative  either. Wouldn't mind having one but they're clearly not targeting me as a potential customer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Can someone please explain to me the advantage of this over just having normal external digital connectors?

I can see the reasoning from the architecture POV - basically muxing the ADC output with the digital inputs ( though I'd love to see the PCB routing around that connector).
The only  major benefit I can see is for users that really need >16 digital channels ( and have deep pockets).
For users that absolutely need a ton of channels, this scope is very attractive, but I do wonder how many potential users with that requirement, combined with the budget, there are.

What would have been much more innovative is if they had made the input stage modular, so you could upgrade the number of channels with plug-in modules, or swap modules between scopes.

I can see plenty of downsides - lots of small, potentially fragile contacts, expensive & bulky probe.
There would have been plenty of room on the back for digital probe connectors.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Well, you have to for the balls to price it at that.

Not to mention...
$990 for a box to keep it in.
A box. For a thousand dollars.
A thousand. dollar. box.
...

Pic or it's not real!

Probably a  customised PELI case

[mikeselectricstuff]

As predicted, the new FlexChannel inputs are 8 digital channels mixed with an analog
Can someone please explain to me the advantage of this over just having normal external digital connectors? Why the need for an entirely new probe system?
(being cool and having marketing flare doesn't count)

Reduced real estate on the front panel considering that there are 8 channels and most of the scope is occupied by the screen.

Nope, not buying it.
This would have been a high level strategic decision way back at the start of the scope design.

But surely if they had of done it like on the MDO with a separate connector for the LA they would have required 8 additional sockets on the scope and this would have made the scope even bigger !! They obviously drew the line on the size of the scope.

Having digital probe sockets on the back isn't a major issue as there will always be a cable to the probe head

[abraxa]

The FlexChannel inputs are a fantastic Tektronix invention.

I hope you do realize that you're on a forum full of very critical EE folks. You say "fantastic", we want to know why because we don't even know what it actually does. You say "invention", we assume it's just a new name for something that already existed.

I understand you're here for marketing and such but please do keep in mind that most of us are allergic to marketing fluff and much rather deal with cold, hard facts. Still, I appreciate you for being here.

[abraxa]

With all the Buzz going around in the last few weeks, I really had expected more innovation.
The only real new innovation that I see is: 8 Channels!

This is probably a very nice scope with lots of good features but to me it does not stand out as something amazing!

And Yokagawa have been making 8 channels scopes for a while so that's not really new or innovative  either. Wouldn't mind having one but they're clearly not targeting me as a potential customer.

Yes, and the DLM4000 also has a variable MSO config. 8 analog or 7a+8d or with the optional 16 logic channels it can do 8a+16d or 7a+24d.

[Mechatrommer]

Well, you have to for the balls to price it at that.

Not to mention...
$990 for a box to keep it in.
A box. For a thousand dollars.
A thousand. dollar. box.

Pic or it's not real!

Probably a  customised PELI case

who give a sheet?
Tektronix, Inc. HARD CASE FOR 5 SERIES MSO breakdown:
the case $20
tektronix logo $970

btw. the new era has begun, we padawan learner know it will come to this...

[nctnico]

This oscilloscope isn't worth the money, I'm sorry Tek you guys need to get your house in order and stop inhaling magic smoke.

IMHO this oscilloscope is positioned against Keysight and Lecroy. If it works smoothly (and given the amount of CPU horsepower it should) then Keysight has some serious homework to do. But you are right that the value (or better said: function) for money isn't stellar given the competition from the B-brands. The time that an oscilloscope is bought to be used for 20 years has been over for a while. Recently I was in an electronics lab where most benches had an Agilent Infiniium 54832 (IIRC) oscilloscope. Not bad back in the day but pretty much outdated for today's use and noisy too due to the fans.

[Fungus]

Is there a complete price list?

[nctnico]

"Stacked display mode" is something I've wanted to see for a long time -

AFAIK (99.9% sure) standard on Lecroy and Yokogawa.

[BU508A]

CalPlus in Germany has the MSO5-series listed, but no prices (yet):

https://www.calplus.de/tektronix-mso5-serie.html

[H.O]

I wonder what the difference is between this new fantastic FlexChannel invention and the old dusty Yokagawa FlexMSO solution is....even the name is similar.

How do these things work? Is it basically 8 digital buffers driving a R2R DAC then into the ADC and the rest is software, just another way of drawing the data? Or is it way more to it than that?

[Free_WiFi]

But basically ,this scope is good or not ?
I mean, if i would have some money like 1800 euros to buy the standard version ,it should be good ?

[EEVblog]

Nope, not buying it.
This would have been a high level strategic decision way back at the start of the scope design.

But surely if they had of done it like on the MDO with a separate connector for the LA they would have required 8 additional sockets on the scope and this would have made the scope even bigger !! They obviously drew the line on the size of the scope.

No way they went at the product review meeting - "this new MSO scope must have 64 digital channels, therefore we'll have to move to combining them in the BNC inputs."
16 or 24 would have been plenty for an MSO.
The only reason it has 64 channels is because that came free with the decision to go with a new patented Flex Connector design.

Look at the existing MDO 16 channel login connector, it's barely bigger than a Flex Channel input.
Now look at the dead space  between the 8th Flex input and the USB connectors (why 3?), there is plenty for space for at least one 16ch connector on the main PCB. Several more is you stacked them.

[HighVoltage]

Tektronix, Inc. HARD CASE FOR 5 SERIES MSO breakdown:
the case $20
tektronix logo $970

btw. the new era has begun, we padawan learner know it will come to this...

To be fair, it seems to be a very special and high end case.

[Hydron]

"Stacked display mode" is something I've wanted to see for a long time -

AFAIK (99.9% sure) standard on Lecroy and Yokogawa.

Ah, so "revolutionary new" is more marketing bullshit then, to go with the other statements about touchscreen etc. It's a pretty obvious feature really, disappointing that everyone doesn't have it. I don't have much experience using Lecroy or Yokogawa kit, so hadn't seen it before.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just wondering - how many use cases are there for lots of channels AND high bandwidth ?
I'm sure in a lot of cases you'd be better off buying 2 different scopes than one "do-everything" model.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Tektronix, Inc. HARD CASE FOR 5 SERIES MSO breakdown:
the case $20
tektronix logo $970

btw. the new era has begun, we padawan learner know it will come to this...

To be fair, it seems to be a very special and high end case.

Definitely PELI, probably with some custom inserts

[Hydron]

Look at the existing MDO 16 channel login connector, it's barely bigger than a Flex Channel input.
Now look at the dead space  between the 8th Flex input and the USB connectors (why 3?), there is plenty for space for at least one 16ch connector on the main PCB. Several more is you stacked them.

...and the normal 16ch connector, if placed there, would get in the way a whole lot less than the huge flex input MSO probe from the photos

Regarding the PELI case, my colleagues have gotten much larger ones with custom inserts done in a 1-off rush job for significantly less than $1k USD.

[sibeen]

"Stacked display mode" is something I've wanted to see for a long time -

AFAIK (99.9% sure) standard on Lecroy and Yokogawa.

My 20 year old Yokogawa, DL 708 - whilst slow as a wet weak, and the bandwidth of a syphilitic mongoose, still has 8 channels and this *new fangled* stack display mode.

[EEVblog]

Can someone please explain to me the advantage of this over just having normal external digital connectors?

I can see the reasoning from the architecture POV - basically muxing the ADC output with the digital inputs ( though I'd love to see the PCB routing around that connector).
The only  major benefit I can see is for users that really need >16 digital channels ( and have deep pockets).

It's likely that anyone who needs the full 64 channels would be looking for a "real" logic analyser with more powerful logic analysis capability anyway.

As for the architecture, it might make sense from a memory capture point of view. But having the digital channels and the required nasty high speed comparators etc dumping massive peak currents into the ground system right next to the analog inputs is nothing short of a PCB layout nightmare.

For users that absolutely need a ton of channels, this scope is very attractive, but I do wonder how many potential users with that requirement, combined with the budget, there are.

What would have been much more innovative is if they had made the input stage modular, so you could upgrade the number of channels with plug-in modules, or swap modules between scopes.
I can see plenty of downsides - lots of small, potentially fragile contacts, expensive & bulky probe.
There would have been plenty of room on the back for digital probe connectors.

Innovative yes, practical, as you said, major problems.
There is already enough room on the front for the existing probe design + several existing 16 channel digital connectors. But that doesn't get you a shiny new Trademark and extra marketing jizz.

[Mechatrommer]

Tektronix, Inc. HARD CASE FOR 5 SERIES MSO breakdown:
the case $20
tektronix logo $970

To be fair, it seems to be a very special and high end case.

Definitely PELI, probably with some custom inserts

yeah probably this one, the breakdown still hold... $40 - $100 tops for higher quality materials...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/chinese-peli-case-waterproof-hard-plastic_60464047972.html?s=p

[EEVblog]

I like the 12-bit ADC, the 1080p large screen and the 500uV vertical. Not enough to justify the ridiculous pricing though.

I like the new scope, you've got to give Tek props for continuing to bring out new designs on what would have been a massive design effort on this one.
Although to be honest I don't see anything really new here.
It's not the first big touch screen scope.
It's not the first 8 channel scope.
It doesn't leverage their existing MDO technology (deliberate so as not to erode their existing market)

Ok, the Flex Channel is new and unique, but like I've said I don't see how it actually adds any real practical value.
If they allowed you to switch one of the 8 digital inputs into the ADC system and view the actual analog signal then that would have been a really handy feature. i.e. no need to re-probe or dual-probe. But all it is is a different way to connect your digital probes.

[hs3]

"Stacked display mode" is something I've wanted to see for a long time -

AFAIK (99.9% sure) standard on Lecroy and Yokogawa.

Keysight Infiniium scopes too I guess.

Reading through the material it feels like many of the things said to be new innovative inventions etc. may be new for Tek scopes but seem to have been in other scopes for a long time already. I suppose that's marketing but when you notice things that don't seem to match the reality it does make you wonder about the validity of the other claims too. But maybe the scope is much better than the competition when someone gets a chance to actually test it... It does seem like a nice scope.