Need help on my shopping list

[rizek]

Greetings!

I am building my electronic lab for the first time. Mainly will focus on analog audio projects and hopefully I'll dive into DSP in the future. After a long research on this forum, I have decided on these instruments;

Siglent SDS804X HD     ~ 490€
Siglent SDG1032X        ~ 350€
GW Instek GPP-4323    ~ 700€   
Agilent 34401               ~ 600€   OR    Keithley 2000   ~450€      OR      Siglent 3065X     ~ 800€

I would like to hear your comments on this list. Open to hear any suggestions. Please keep in mind that I need at least 6.5 digit DMM and high resolution on the PSU.


Thank you all in advance
 

[KungFuJosh]

Those are generally nice choices, but I wouldn't buy a used DMM unless you're also going to add the price of calibration to your budget.

You might also want to consider the SDG2042X, though I'm not sure what the price difference is for you.

[TomKatt]

Please keep in mind that I need at least 6.5 digit DMM and high resolution on the PSU.

I’m always curious how / why hobbyists need such accuracy like a 6.5 digit DMM…. component / channel matching?

[4thDoctorWhoFan]

I’m always curious how / why hobbyists need such accuracy like a 6.5 digit DMM…. component / channel matching?

Three thoughts:
1)  Why not if it's cheap enough.
2)  Some confuse resolution with accuracy.
3)  I can afford it so STFU. 

[rizek]

@KungFuJosh

Thank you for the tip. Just checked and 34401 calibration costs around 170€. I also do not want to buy a used one but found a clean one and seems like its in a good contidion. And the measurements are OK according to the seller.

I do not think I need more than 20 MHz. And  my budget is limited around 2.2k€ in total  :'(



@TomKatt

You are correct sir I will need it for transistor matching. Btw im an electrical engineer, this devices look great on paper but I am just not familiar with the brands.


@4thDoctorWhoFan

Actually, finally being able to afford them also makes me to buy fancy stuff

[TomKatt]

I’m always curious how / why hobbyists need such accuracy like a 6.5 digit DMM…. component / channel matching?

Three thoughts:
1)  Why not if it's cheap enough.
2)  Some confuse resolution with accuracy.
3)  I can afford it so STFU. 

My question was sincere, no disrespect intended.  And I guess my hunch was on track.  I suspect that resolution may be more useful than accuracy for component matching.

[4thDoctorWhoFan]

My question was sincere, no disrespect intended.  And I guess my hunch was on track.  I suspect that resolution may be more useful than accuracy for component matching.

No disrespect taken.  I was just being facetious and nothing I said was said in malice.
Sometimes humor is difficult over the internet on a forum. 

[wasedadoc]

I wonder how many of us have ears that are matched to within 0.1dB?

[KungFuJosh]

@KungFuJosh

Thank you for the tip. Just checked and 34401 calibration costs around 170€. I also do not want to buy a used one but found a clean one and seems like its in a good contidion. And the measurements are OK according to the seller.

I do not think I need more than 20 MHz. And  my budget is limited around 2.2k€ in total  :'(

I have the SDM3065X, and I love it. It's been very stable, even from early use, and they're supposed to get even better after more burn-in time. I generally prefer to get something that comes calibrated with a warranty when I can. If the price is close enough, that will always win for me.

Regarding the AWG, compare the datasheets for the two devices. The 1032X has a superior square wave, but is only 14 bits. The 2042X is 16 bits, and really nice across the board. See if the datasheets tell you anything useful. The 2042X in the US only costs $499 USD; I know prices are a little different out there.

Thanks,
Josh

[Martin72]

I would like to say that every SDM3065X has been “correctly” calibrated, the calibration data is not supplied (but is available), only a confirmation that this is the case.
So if you buy a new device, it is “fresh” and “correctly” calibrated (or look at the certificate to see when it was calibrated).

[Hexley]

Agilent 34401               ~ 600€   OR    Keithley 2000   ~450€      OR      Siglent 3065X     ~ 800€

I would like to hear your comments on this list.

Btw im an electrical engineer...

Congrats on setting up your first bench.

Some comments...

As an EE, you are probably going to want to make automated test measurements at some point. Measuring and comparing transistor parameters, for example, is a perfect application. And you mentioned that as one of your use cases...

The scope, AWG, and power supply that you list all offer LAN and USB connectivity, with SCPI control. Very good; that will let you use automation software (see TestController here on this site, for example); or you can do your own programming with PyVISA, etc.

If you go for the 34401 or K2000 DMMs, be sure to plan for a GPIB adapter so they can join your USB or LAN setup. Though I would strongly suggest that you go for a modern DMM even if it stretches your budget. Then you not only get native USB/LAN support, but you also get advanced display and logging features. The Siglent is a possibility, as are the Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500 (if you can swing the +3 dB increase in price).

[coromonadalix]

you could go with 34410a and 34411a      are 34401a sucessor, but faster

600euro for a 34401a  is pure non sense   go with other   

k2000  okay   but if the famous tf245 resistor smd  fail ....

but as more modern you get  schematics become  unavailable

k2000 (some models)   34401a 34410 34411a  are known

others  .....  zit nada niet   not leaked

[nctnico]

A 4.5 digit DMM is good enough for component matching. With a 6.5 digit DMM, you'll see the values change along with temperature and humidity. For component matching calibration doesn't matter either as the measurements are relative anyway.

I'd recommend against getting an old clunker bench DMM. Better buy something modern with nice features like a big display, capacitance measurement, higher current capability, trend chart plotting, statistics, etc.

[Fungus]

3)  I can afford it so STFU. 

So why go with a bottom-of-the-range oscilloscope? That seems more important.

[rizek]

Thank you all for your comments. They are highly appreciated.

@Fungus

 I actually could not find any alternative with better resulution and higher samle rates. Rigol MSO5074 was another option with the built in wave generators but the price is almost doubled. But I would like to hear your alternative recommendations

[44kgk1lkf6u]

For audio, the audio ports on a computer are even better than regular oscilloscopes and signal generators in some aspects.  A sound card has more bits than an oscilloscope.  An oscilloscope measures higher voltage and higher frequency.  I once needed to measure the noise and distortion characteristics of an audio circuit.  I first tired an oscilloscope.  It had too much noise.  The audio input on my computer was good enough on the other hand.  A signal generator can usually go to higher voltages.  But it has a 50 Ω output impedance.  That means it can deliver less power than a headphone jack.  Just make sure that your headphone jack is not driven by a class-D amplifier.  The computer's audio ports are easier to control with a computer.  And it is also easier to get isolated channels.  Simply get a full-speed USB isolator and a USB sound card.  If I were you, I would hold off on buying a signal generator until I need to generate something my sound card can not.

[TomKatt]

3)  I can afford it so STFU. 

So why go with a bottom-of-the-range oscilloscope? That seems more important.

While the SDS800X HD series may be at Siglent’s bottom range, I’d suggest they are hardly a bottom range scope in the scheme of things.  It’s amazing what $400 gets you these days.  Considering that the OP is looking at dedicated AWG’s, the only thing that seems like might be improved for his needs would be audio range FFT.  And even then a dedicated audio analyzer might be the better option?

This kind of goes back to my question about getting more expensive gear than what you need.  Granted, having capabilities beyond immediate needs does provide more options for other future or unforeseen circumstances, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with that.

[Fungus]

I actually could not find any alternative with better resulution and higher samle rates. Rigol MSO5074 was another option with the built in wave generators but the price is almost doubled. But I would like to hear your alternative recommendations

If you've got money then this:

https://www.siglent.eu/product/1182111/siglent-sds2104x-plus-4ch-100mhz-2gsa-s-oscilloscope

It has built-in signal generator so you save on that.

Edit: Also note that you might have to wait months to get an SDS804X HD. They're not easy to get.

[rizek]

Actually I was considering the new SDS1000X HD series but unfortunatelly its over my budget  :

I actually could not find any alternative with better resulution and higher samle rates. Rigol MSO5074 was another option with the built in wave generators but the price is almost doubled. But I would like to hear your alternative recommendations

If you've got money then this:

https://www.siglent.eu/product/1182111/siglent-sds2104x-plus-4ch-100mhz-2gsa-s-oscilloscope

It has built-in signal generator so you save on that.

Edit: Also note that you might have to wait months to get an SDS804X HD. They're not easy to get.

[TomKatt]

I actually could not find any alternative with better resulution and higher samle rates. Rigol MSO5074 was another option with the built in wave generators but the price is almost doubled. But I would like to hear your alternative recommendations

If you've got money then this:

https://www.siglent.eu/product/1182111/siglent-sds2104x-plus-4ch-100mhz-2gsa-s-oscilloscope

It has built-in signal generator so you save on that.

Edit: Also note that you might have to wait months to get an SDS804X HD. They're not easy to get.

Isn’t the SDS2104X AWG single channel?  While the SDG1032 is 2 channel, which might come in handy for stereo audio work.

Edit - I guess you could always split the AWG signal to feed more than one channel with the same signal…
 
Edit 2 - I recently got an SDS804X HD from Saelig…. You might check with them about stock, and you can also get an EEVblog discount code.

[KungFuJosh]

If audio analyzing is your main focus, you should look at the QuantAsylum QA403. Maybe wait on the Scope and AWG if that's what you wanted them for.

[TomKatt]

If audio analyzing is your main focus, you should look at the QuantAsylum QA403. Maybe wait on the Scope and AWG if that's what you wanted them for.

Test gear like this is definitely the better approach for analyzing audio.  But a scope is obviously more versatile and useful for designing or building audio circuits.  In a world without budget constraints you’d have both.

[KungFuJosh]

If audio analyzing is your main focus, you should look at the QuantAsylum QA403. Maybe wait on the Scope and AWG if that's what you wanted them for.

Test gear like this is definitely the better approach for analyzing audio.  But a scope is obviously more versatile and useful for designing or building audio circuits.  In a world without budget constraints you’d have both.

100%.

The only question is what he needs now, and can budget for later. Or maybe get a less expensive DMM and buy it all. The SDM3045X is a great DMM option too. Depending on the hardware version, it can possibly be upgraded to 5.5 digits like mine.

[rizek]

If audio analyzing is your main focus, you should look at the QuantAsylum QA403. Maybe wait on the Scope and AWG if that's what you wanted them for.

After seeing the video on The Signal Path channel I said to myself 'I need this' But I have to wait a litle more to get it. Not much European stocks available and also need to save more money ...

[AVGresponding]

€450 should almost buy a Keithley 2015THD, nvm a 2000...