Author Topic: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2  (Read 92671 times)

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Offline thinkfat

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #300 on: October 28, 2020, 11:22:30 am »
I plan to run it with the cal kit and cables they included.  I'm sure below 1GHz, it will be fine but at > 2GHz, its hard to believe it will put up meaningful data.  Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?   I'm guessing it $120 works.   Looking forward to hours of fun.   

I have nothing to test S21 here, but S11 on a DIY WiFi antenna gives very reasonable results. Resonates where it should, impedance almost bang-on 50 Ohms (real).
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Offline cdev

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #301 on: October 28, 2020, 03:30:22 pm »
Above 3 GHz the response is a bit lumpy, but not as bad as the ones that have been posted here. Mine actually produces output and measure it to 4.4 GHz but I have no way of knowing how accurate that is. I have to say I've been playing around with mine more than I have with any other test instrument, including my scope.

Its making it all much more accessible and fun.
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #302 on: October 28, 2020, 05:12:09 pm »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #303 on: October 28, 2020, 05:12:21 pm »
Why not combine playing with both? If your scope has a 50 Ohm input setting, try measuring how much 50 Ohms it actually is across its specified bandwidth :-)
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Offline 0culus

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #304 on: October 28, 2020, 08:52:43 pm »
the trick is... be gratefull we got solt kit + good cables included at all, at much much less than $1K of damage... if i want to complaint, then its the open and short butt have same appearance, the open should have a little hole on the butt so we can easily recognize. but well what can i say for something that i (assume) got for basically free.

I'm not "complaining". I'm trying to improve the quality of the product. Attention to detail is a differentiator. Your suggestion about putting a small hole into the "open" standard is another one of those little details. Also, at $130 the V2plus4 is not "cheap" cheap.

Yes it is a cheap option. Even for $200 it would still be beyond reasonable, if you compare it to the used prices for “real” VNAs. For the frequency bands most people care about it’s a steal. Personally, my interests lie in the microwave bands so I’m actively pursuing a 8510C system.
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #305 on: October 29, 2020, 12:20:03 am »
Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?
up to 6GHz, i can torque with just my bare hand to get consistent result. i have china torque wrench for sma, but i dont find that necessary to use so its just for backup. i think using wrench will put too much torque and wear out the connectors faster thats why i dont like to use it.

I define eBay working as no smoke came out.  How do you define consistent?  It would be interesting to see some data on this. 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #306 on: October 29, 2020, 03:09:26 am »
S11 of two 0805 resistors.  Tightening by hand.  I wasn't trying to make it look bad.   In the 100s of MHz, I would buy it but I think your fooling yourself not using proper techniques in the several GHz. 

As I side note,  I actually had someone try and tell me to use some crazy contact cleaner on my connectors.   :palm:   

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #307 on: October 29, 2020, 01:03:44 pm »
It appears that the two standards supplied with the V2+ and +4 are the same.  No surprise.  They also appear to be big improvement over the part supplied with my original Nano.   Again, what we would expect.  The new parts appear to be gold plated where the part supplied with my original Nano appears stainless.

Normal procedure, before doing anything the parts are inspected.  Note the surface finish compared with the Mini-Circuits.

So no real surprises just yet. 

***
Because it came up before, the datasheets for the ANNE show typical numbers.  Typical does not imply that all parts are meet these numbers.  That should have been obvious but apparently it's not.  I purchased a few of these and then sorted them to find these two.  I now use #3 for my poor man's reference standard.  Two sets of HP standards were loaned out to characterize my standards.   

***
My first attempt to talk with the V2P4 with LabView.  Sending a 0x0d causes it to return 0x32.  Wow...  (and it didn't require 15 seconds!!!)

The command set looks well thought out.  When I tried the standard software, after waiting about 15 seconds so I could select the comm port, once it connects the LCD stopped displaying data and has a message USB Mode.  I assume they are attempting to get some improved throughput with it.   Guessing this is automatically done once the PC starts requesting data.   I'll find out soon enough. 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 01:11:49 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #308 on: October 30, 2020, 07:06:10 am »
can anyone give me link to pcb gerber files for latest V2_2 revision? ie the sma connectors at the bottom (my NanoVNA PCB version). the one provided in github is sma connectors are on the left side... btw a lot of guru talks here i believe many of you can give me a light on my confusion here... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vna-view-(cal-kit-parm-setting)-question/?topicscreen
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #309 on: October 30, 2020, 01:34:18 pm »
Sorry, I have yet to attach anything to the Nano's ports. 

I didn't notice any papers for the cal kits supplied with mine.   Let's assume you found some numbers.   While the metrology grade standards I borrowed use a common set of characteristics, you can imagine the machining/assembly tolerances on these are tight enough to support it.  Can we say the same for the standards supplied with the Nano? 

Again, like your comment about hand tightening connectors giving consistent results, I would expect the same is true for trying to come up with a common set of characteristics for the supplied standards.  You can do it, but really, how good are the results?  The surface finishes alone may provide some indication.

Making my own standards was nothing short of a nightmare.   I may still buy an actual set for home use.  I am VERY ignorant about the subject but the few times I have attempted to get any meaningful data in the 1.5-3GHz, I feel I was kidding myself.   The only difference now is that I KNOW I was kidding myself.   :-DD   

I could possibly characterize the new standards, similar to what I did with my home made ones but, they may change in a short time.   Another interesting test.   

***
Rough reading...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 04:13:37 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #310 on: October 30, 2020, 02:01:55 pm »
I bet they do change as the plating wears off, its true... BUT..

As work went into the S-A-A-2 and the price was very reasonable, so IMHO, its pointless to worry about an accessory. Especially when its so easy to replace.

If the results will be much more accurate by using an exquisitely machined cal kit hardware, clearly, there is another market niche there that could be filled by a similarly affordable but high quality alternative. That would be like the SAA2, a big help for learners.

 I like the newer all in one calibration standards that look like they might cost $20-30 at most. They resemble well machined bicycle tools I have.

But I was surprised to see them selling for *gasp* several hundred dollars, or even more.  I suspect we all secretly see that its ridiculous to sell them for that much.

Somebody is making a real killing there on markup. They supposedly come with calibration curves.

I wonder, are they ever any different?

-----

Gabriel, I am totally happy with my SAA2.
I'd like to run mine on the computer and not be worried about the display,

There shouldn't be any problem with simply reducing the power to the display backlight, right? (throwing a resistor in series with it, maybe, on a switch)

Will the USB mode text burn in to it?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 02:17:34 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #311 on: October 30, 2020, 04:28:56 pm »
I'm not worried about anything when it comes to the Nano.  Few people should be surprised by the data I have shown so far. 

Yeah, I doubt many people would dare to attach their new Keysight cal standard to a Nano using the supplied cables.   Similar to your point about the standards supplied with the Nano.   So, does it make sense to attach a $1000 cable to a $120 Nano so you can use your $10,000 standards with it?    :-DD 

I am mostly focused on getting some software to drive it.   I have lots of questions after reading the spec.  Some things just don't make a lot of sense.    I will just need to start trying things to see what works.

Offline Grandchuck

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #312 on: October 30, 2020, 04:42:59 pm »
Some recent experiments:  First, a photo of a Wurth 6-hole ferrite bead mounted on an SMA connector.  Second, the manufacturer's Z plot with 4 data points from the Nano +4.  Third, the nano's Z plot.  Fourth, an S21 plot for an 800 MHz filter.  Last, a Z plot for a simple ferrite bead.  The +4 is  :-+

Now need some higher frequency experiments  :-\
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #313 on: October 30, 2020, 07:15:17 pm »
Again, like your comment about hand tightening connectors giving consistent results
this is subjective matter. i wont make a reply to your previous query, since it will (usually) make further stir or arguments. if your measurement indicated nonconsistency, then you are free to use other means such as whats suggested by the standard, to use wrench to the specific torque figure. as i said, i thought i've followed the standard torque figure, i'm not sure what was wrong, my china cheap torque or the figure, it was just not up to my expectation, having knowing how much a good CAL kit costs i'm not going to get another one soon again. but that is just me. and the cost for good quality torque wrench is another decision to think about, they are not cheap either.

I didn't notice any papers for the cal kits supplied with mine. Let's assume you found some numbers. While the metrology grade standards I borrowed use a common set of characteristics, you can imagine the machining/assembly tolerances on these are tight enough to support it.  Can we say the same for the standards supplied with the Nano?
this is the reason why there are CAL kit that cost hundreds or thousands and there are that costs only few dollars or free. can you hope the machining tolerance of CAL kits provided for free with Nano have the same stringent process as those made by Agilent, R&S et al that cost thousands? even with stringent and quality process, CAL kit from brand names will always come with their own unique profile/characteristics/s1p/offset/databased files.

the CAL kits from Kirkby Microwave probably the same construction as the Nano's (with some nice additional features such as both genders, Open Load with nice opening on the cap to distinguish from Short (fully closed cap) Load, Verification attenutors all s1p/s2p characterized and foamy water tight w pressure release Pelican case), but the price on Kirkby's kit is mostly due to work done to characterize it and provide the data to customers in relative to a well known, good quality and metrology grade calibrated T&M equipment and standard kit. i was paying for Mr Kirkby's expertise, work and initial investment on tools. i think i can buy $5 CAL kit from China and have him characterize it for me, but then he will charge for the service the same as what i paid for his CAL kit in the first place. to put it another way, peoples or companies are willing spend high price just to keep their equipments such as DMM or DSO calibrated by metrology lab for every year because they know/appreciate/need what measurement accuracy assurance and tracability to metrology standards are. we can make our DIY tools such as DMM or DSO or VNA/CAL kit if we want, as we like and be happy with the measurement result, and most of the time its the practical way since we are only doing arduino and $5 cheap/personal use stuffs or hobby ham/radio/rc projects. but without tracability to standards, as you said, we can kid ourself. comparing our tool with an accurate standards at least we have educated/proven/known way on how to compensate measurement accuracy esp when we are dealing with customers thats going to ask stuffs like this, reliability, accuracy, quality etc... if you search this forum about VNA subject and google for app notes more, you'll know more..

So, does it make sense to attach a $1000 cable to a $120 Nano so you can use your $10,000 standards with it? :-DD
imho. the answer is yes. there were discussions in this forum and here and there in the net that i agree with. VNA is just like a blind measurement tool, its just an s-parameter calculator tool with enough peripherals/components/circuits/rig to test a DUT. but it needs sort of a good "boundary condition" to complete the calculation correctly, that is a good and well characterized CAL kit. you may not need to put $1K cabling in there since they will probably be "de-embedded" in the calculation (behind the measurement 's plane) but think of CAL kit that you use during measurement as a "voltage reference" IC in every quality DMM. the more far off the Vref wanders from true value, the more wrong you measurement will be, how much far off is the characterization process we usually found in Vref IC's datasheet figure. the characterization process for CAL kit is its S11 plot/s1p/offset profile. although you can find characterization plot on some choosen CAL kit from SDR web site, but machining process will make different CAL kit's profile will differ to another set by some amount, how much the amount? you need to ask manufacturer, it will be nice and easier if we have the exact character for our own unique set come from factory, no need much "re-compensation" to correct measurement result. unfortunately a well characterized CAL kit is not any closer cheap to a well characterized Vref IC in every Fluke or Gossen DMM. ymmv cheers.

btw: i urge members and friends to get at least Kirkby Microwave's grade CAL kit standard, ie with characterized s1p/s2p files and S11/S21 graph plot for each kit. from what i know, you cant simply make this thing up from some fancy PC softwares, the kit is characterized based on much more expensive/characterized/calibrated CAL kit and equipment brand and bandwidth. Mr. Kirby also care enough about our measurement and device accuracy by providing extra -3dB "Verification" attenuator with its characteristic data similar to the CAL kit purchased. there are few benefit for this other than simply to use it as measurement standard. (1) measurement accuracy assurance from expert in the field (2) instrument verification so we can know if our VNA is good HW and FW built or else based on some proven concept/study, i provided the link (to a thread that links) to Kirkby Verification process above in earlier post. (3) we can discuss and help each other out if we have confusion about this matter esp on how to use s1p/s2p cal kit files correctly into VNA View SW. i'm sure some of you have better understanding in some other aspects that you can solve puzzles easier more than we can. i'm not affiliate of Kirkby, just a happy customer. cheers.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #314 on: October 30, 2020, 08:51:35 pm »
I should have made it clear that my comments of attaching a metrology grade standard to the nano would be the risk of damaging the standard.   Using the high grade cable or adapter to act as a buffer between the standard and the nano. Of course that cable or adapter would be at risk.

I wasn't suggesting that people would not do this because they couldn't improve their measurements.   Most just wouldn't plug a $1000 connector into a $1 connector.  I've shown photos of the standards I borrowed under the microscope.  Pure artwork.  It's not hard to imagine these getting damaged. 

It seems the person who had helped me with my home made standards had told me that Kirkby was screening loads.  This would make sense.    In my case, I think I paid $80 or so for 6pcs and used one part.  Still, a whole lot cheaper than what that standard I used to characterize it would have cost.  Of course, not near as good.   

Yes, any time we use words like "works" we need to define what it means.  It is very subjective for some reason.   More an observation on my part than an argument.   

The small amount I have dabbled in the GHz plus, I have gained an appreciation for the people working it the higher frequencies. 

***
rough reading...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 01:30:46 am by joeqsmith »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #315 on: October 30, 2020, 10:27:27 pm »
I should have made it clear that my comments of attaching a metrology grade standard to the nano would be the risk of damaging the standard.   Using the high grade cable or adapter to act as a buffer between the standard and the nano. Of course that cable or adapter would be at risk.
high grade CAL kit may lose its characteristics or metrological grade even when using high grade cable and VNA (see shariar video on KC901V iirc he mentioned it on HP/Agilent CAL kit). can you guess why? i'm guessing... torque wrench, but i'm maybe just kidding myself. otoh by logic, cheap metal should be weaker and softer hence dont grind high grade cal kit/cable/connector as bad, but that logic may not be applicable anyway.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 10:30:37 pm by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #316 on: October 30, 2020, 11:28:11 pm »
I would imagine messing up a 20GHz cal standard is much easier to do than a 300MHz cal standard.  Those metrology grade adapters come at a price.  Still, its easy enough to send them off to be checked.   

Still you watch people working at this level. 



Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #317 on: October 31, 2020, 01:16:33 am »
YouTube shut down the video link ?

The smaller the unit of measure - the more it costs , 300 MHz  - 20 GHz .

I hope everyone that is reading these post catches the current theme - Do not through away money $ [ unless it's in my direction ;)
Do not use multi thousand dollar standards on a $50 dollar tool .

The closer the tolerance / measure - the more gold is use , then the better quality - the thicker the gold - gold is softer than most other conductors - so wares the fastest - so do not wear away that gold on every " tom , dick or harry ;) - use should be as minimal as possible , unless the measurement has very high value , and pays for the high value .

Anology on fit & finish [ aside from the gold issue ;) measuring small 00.00000 - zeros cost $ , look at the cost of a machine that can make & keep those numbers .0000 .
Do not torque your lug nut of you wheel , and it will come loser gouging out the holes and eventually the wheel comes off at highway speeds , I've seen it done ;(

If you need - I can help you out of gold , I also recycle metals from electronics mostly as a hobby - but plan on that hobby making money too / I hope someday .

On the waiting list for the v2+4 .


After posting , I was able to click on video .
That is the first for me , watching the scan for fitting connectors , cool .
I've done machining with Air Bearings .00000 digits , but only doing about .000 with electrical stuff , so far .
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 01:32:55 am by KD0CAC John »
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #318 on: October 31, 2020, 01:55:22 am »
YouTube shut down the video link ?
Seems to play here. 

Your points are the main reason I can't see trying to buy a used set of standards.   The sellers ask a lot for something that is very high risk on the buyers part.  Most likely, the buyer will send them in and I suspect there are no repairs but rather the whole standard is replaced.   After seeing so many working things on eBay, this just isn't something I would consider.   

Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #319 on: October 31, 2020, 04:52:27 am »
Ya , after I posted , the page worked ?
Watched it then .
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #320 on: October 31, 2020, 08:40:35 am »
yup but we sure dont need multi thousands dollar airline/waveguide 20GHz thing into NanoVNA. my point was, Kirkby is the "cheapest" option (specified up to 6 to 12GHz) "characterized" CAL kit. cheaper  than this, there is none so far afaik, we can either buy $5 grade or i prefer to make myself. here is what i currently used as DUT test fixture.



but i have Kirkby kit in case i need verification. with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads. but you will be surprised how different your measurement on DUT if you use this as CAL vs if you use Kirkby kit as CAL beyond 500-1000 MHz frequency. ymmv.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline ogden

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #321 on: October 31, 2020, 09:09:22 am »
with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads.

Small PCB's are most likely to blame. You would want to consider making SOL kit out of lone connectors as most DIY'ers are doing (pic from suggested page with build info and test results):


 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #322 on: October 31, 2020, 09:36:14 am »
with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads.
Small PCB's are most likely to blame. You would want to consider making SOL kit out of lone connectors as most DIY'ers are doing (pic from suggested page with build info and test results):
yes i also have made one or two diy SMA set much earlier. but then, we need some way to verify our diy kit performance with the "real thing". the point of fixture is so i can insert my DUT easily into measurement plane. with this fixture method, i can also see what characteristic trace impedance of my seeedstudio manufactured pcb on cheap substrate. the picture shown is using 2mm trace width. i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).

on side note on hand tightening.. i'll need to hand tighten to maximum torque my hand can do + some wiggling until the connection is really tight, then i can get consistent result. but then its a subjective term, some people may not be satisfied enough with 1 or 2 dB (or screen pixels) offed. maybe me (or someone else) can make a blog or writing later on how to verify (distinguish between good or bad) characteristics impedance of any brand coaxial cables or pcb microstrip/stripline.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline ogden

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #323 on: October 31, 2020, 10:06:16 am »
i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).

Impedance of grounded coplanar waveguide most likely was not 50 Ohms. You can check here or here. Look around internet - you will definitely find decent designs for material (thickness) you use.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 10:14:16 am by ogden »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2
« Reply #324 on: October 31, 2020, 10:41:25 am »
i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).
Impedance of grounded coplanar waveguide most likely was not 50 Ohms. You can check here. Look around internet - you will definitely find decent designs for material (thickness) you use.
yes i've read about theories. iirc i used Saturn PCB and other pcb trace impedance calculator to make my pcb. i've made "Transmission Lines" PCB test, 100 ohm in Saturn (0.2mm trace) turned out to be like 73 ohm on real life pcb, 75 ohm (math/theory 0.6mm trace) -> 59 ohm (real life), 50 ohm -> 47 ohm, but then they only good for low frequency application maybe largely due to "adjustable trimpot" used as termination outlined by w2aew in his "figuring out characteristic impedance of coax cable" video. attached is sample of impedance test on 100-50 ohm traces of my earlier "Transmission Lines" PCB test to get the feeling for you of what i'm talking about. or i will need to tweak FR4 substrate dielectric coefficient, or using Roger PCB to get consistent and impedance controlled traces, you can make a survey on what cost they are ;)

but then if we want to stick to China cheap $5 FR4 substrate, there's writing such as..

https://www.nwengineeringllc.com/article/what-is-the-fiber-weave-effect-in-a-pcb-substrate.php
https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/applsci/applsci-09-00353/article_deploy/applsci-09-00353.pdf
https://www.isola-group.com/wp-content/uploads/PCB-Material-Selection-for-High-speed-Digital-Designs-1.pdf
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/an/an528.pdf

that made simple theory calculation collapse. thats why some designers/projects, or even NanoVNA pcb is using 45 degrees angled traces and extensive amount of hours for testing and verification. but what about if fiber weaves geometry change again? what if they layout fiber in 45 degrees? impedance and theory screwed up again, a simple one line theory formula wont cut it. thats why we need VNA or DSO with signal integrity/eye diagram tools, DSO with eye diagram is surely not any cheap and no birth yet on cheap DSO with eye diagram ;) thats another story. anyway, birth of cheap VNA is a blessing, we can add more "eye" into pcb design process. a good learning process. cheers.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 11:01:34 am by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 


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