My Siglent SSA3021X died yesterday (SOLVED: Boot freeze)

[Thomas]

Well, not entirely. But it won't get past the bootscreen.

• On idle, the power button green light fades in and out - normal.
• When I push the power button, it beeps and buttons "Mode" and "TG" lights up green - normal.
• Boot screen appears on the screen - normal.
• After a few seconds "Mode" and "TG" lights go out - normal

Boot screen continues to appear and nothing more happens.

This happened when I was playing with some tests on my Marconi 2024 RF generator. The Marconi was connected to the SSA3021X through a BNC cable and N-BNC adapters on both ends.
The generator was set to -4dBm so that should not be a problem.
I was sending SCPI commands through ethernet using python, and lots of (bad) things can happen in this scenario, but I have never messed up this bad.
That said, I would be surprised if the SCPI commands caused this.

I have checked the power supply, all the voltages looks normal. I have tried powering the SSA3021X with a lab power supply - exactly the same happens. Power draw seems OK:
+6.5V: 2.0A
+15V:  0.26A
-9.5V:  0A (Not used in this instrument? I know the power supply is common to other Siglent instruments)

I have measured voltages on the marked test points on the main board and the small exposed portion of the RF module - all seem normal.
Well, RF_VCC_30V = 26.86V, but I'm guessing that is OK?

The FPGA_LED is always flashing at ~1Hz, not sure what that means. I guess it should go steady on or off?

I guess the firmware image for the ARM could be corrupt, but would the boot image appear then?

It might be stuck in an invalid configuration?
It is configured to start in previous configuration. Maybe I will change that to default after this.
Is it possible to revert to default configuration by deleting a file through telnet? Assuming I can connect to it.

My analyzer has a micro SD card slot on the main board, can that be useful?
I have never seen any image or something that could be used on a SD card.

I guess I could solder a pin header to the UART footprint and see what's going on there.

BTW:
This SSA3021X is "upgraded" to all options and 3.2GHz bandwidth with the (excellent!) python script by tomud (and tv84?) (and others?) here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg4355635/#msg4355635
I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with this incident, just thought I'd mention it. It has worked like this since January 2023.

To summarize, I think these are the most likely problems:

• ARM image corrupt
• FPGA image corrupt
• Invalid configuration

But how do I find out what is the actual error?

Any suggestions and ideas are most welcome.

[nctnico]

How about returning it for a warranty repair? Anything in the user manual about holding a button during power up? The preset button is a good candidate.

[Thomas]

Oh, forgot to mention that, it's too old.
Bought in 2019.

[nctnico]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

[2N3055]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah warranty is 17 years if you take enough of right type of mushrooms...

Oh, forgot to mention that, it's too old.
Bought in 2019.

Thomas, send a message to Tautech (member here).
He might know what to do..
Don't fiddle with the SA or do anything else to it until you speak to him.

[Thomas]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah, maybe I should have thought about that before opening it up. And I agree, it should last longer.
Anyway, holding preset during powerup didn't do anything. Not Back, Esc ,Enter, Auto Tune or leftarrow either. No mention in the manual.

[nctnico]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah warranty is 17 years if you take enough of right type of mushrooms...

It is very clear you are not up-to-date with the most recent consumer laws in the EU. 

[Thomas]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah warranty is 17 years if you take enough of right type of mushrooms...

Oh, forgot to mention that, it's too old.
Bought in 2019.

Thomas, send a message to Tautech (member here).
He might know what to do..
Don't fiddle with the SA or do anything else to it until you speak to him.

Hmm, that sounds like a good idea.
Tautech has been helpful with many Siglent issues, I think?

[2N3055]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah warranty is 17 years if you take enough of right type of mushrooms...

It is very clear you are not up-to-date with the most recent consumer laws in the EU. 

I am not the lawyer and also new laws don't mean you can antedate previous contracts.

But I am willing to learn and would be grateful if you would specify what law do you specifically refer to, if you'd  be so kind?

[dibro]

@nctnico: As far a I know Norway is not part of the EU.

[tautech]

If bought as a consumer that shouldn't matter much. You can expect a piece of test equipment to last more than 5 years.

Yeah warranty is 17 years if you take enough of right type of mushrooms...

Oh, forgot to mention that, it's too old.
Bought in 2019.

Thomas, send a message to Tautech (member here).
He might know what to do..
Don't fiddle with the SA or do anything else to it until you speak to him.

Hmm, that sounds like a good idea.
Tautech has been helpful with many Siglent issues, I think?

Exact model please ?
SSA3021X or SSA3021X Plus ?

[Thomas]

Non-plus.
I recorded this when I did the "upgrade":

SW1:   1.3.9.8
SW2:   20201230-1
SW3:   000000D1
HW:      07.03.00

Not sure if I updated to 1.3.9.10 later.

[tautech]

Non-plus.
I recorded this when I did the "upgrade":

SW1:   1.3.9.8
SW2:   20201230-1
SW3:   000000D1
HW:      07.03.00

Not sure if I updated to 1.3.9.10 later.

Check your messages.

[hfleming]

Had the same issue once.

By Keeping the “system” button pressed whilst booting fixed the issue for me.

[Thomas]

SUCCESS!
@tautech stepped in and saved the day. Provided me with some rescue files to be copied to an USB stick.
My USB stick didn't work, so I tried a memory card reader and SD card, and that worked!
All my "upgrades" stuck, but the firmware version is not the latest. Even the clock stayed correct, but that runs on batteries I guess.
I have now updated to v1.3.9.10 which is the latest for my hardware. All good.

So the problem was a boot freeze.
Not sure why that happened, but I suspect it was a random fluke event.
When searching for problems with the SSA3000X series, there are not a lot of hits.
Sure, a few have blown the RF front end, but that's not hard to diagnose. And I suspect 100% of them were user error.

Anyway, HUGE thanks to @tautech for being so positive and proactive, without his help this would most likely not have ended in a good way.
He is among the (several) users who make this forum special and an immense resource.

[Thomas]

Had the same issue once.

By Keeping the “system” button pressed whilst booting fixed the issue for me.

That is one of the few keys I didn't try
Is it mentioned anywhere in the manual? I looked but didn't see anything.

I'll try to remember it if it ever happens again.

[Strix]

I am not the lawyer and also new laws don't mean you can antedate previous contracts.

But I am willing to learn and would be grateful if you would specify what law do you specifically refer to, if you'd  be so kind?

Member-state specific but, I think, all rooted in EU Directive 2011/83/EU, amongst others.  Deadline for implementation (including EEA states) was 2013.  UK implemented it in 2015, at the latest.

Either way, it should have been in force at the time @thomas bought his unit.  There are practical time limits that may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  The UK implementation (Consumer Rights Act 2015) implies terms into contracts of sale which makes the seller (not necessarily the manufacturer) liable via contract law.  Since the statute of limitations here is six years, that is the absolute longest term of applicability.  Some remedies are limited to a shorter time frame, eg 6 months.

[Martin72]

So the problem was a boot freeze.

Perhaps you could change the title of the thread accordingly.

[2N3055]

I am not the lawyer and also new laws don't mean you can antedate previous contracts.

But I am willing to learn and would be grateful if you would specify what law do you specifically refer to, if you'd  be so kind?

Member-state specific but, I think, all rooted in EU Directive 2011/83/EU, amongst others.  Deadline for implementation (including EEA states) was 2013.  UK implemented it in 2015, at the latest.

Either way, it should have been in force at the time @thomas bought his unit.  There are practical time limits that may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  The UK implementation (Consumer Rights Act 2015) implies terms into contracts of sale which makes the seller (not necessarily the manufacturer) liable via contract law.  Since the statute of limitations here is six years, that is the absolute longest term of applicability.  Some remedies are limited to a shorter time frame, eg 6 months.

What he implied is some sort of law prescribed lifetime warranty where there is no time limit how long manufacturer has to be fully responsible for the product for free.

There is no such directive.

When shopping in the EU, Norway, or Iceland, you are always entitled to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you buy the goods online, in a shop, or by mail order.
The 2-year guarantee is your minimum right EU-wide. National rules in your country may give you extra protection.

Minimum prescribed warranty is 2 years in EU. Siglent gives 3 years.

In addition to that Siglent also has Tautech...

[nctnico]

I am not the lawyer and also new laws don't mean you can antedate previous contracts.

But I am willing to learn and would be grateful if you would specify what law do you specifically refer to, if you'd  be so kind?

Member-state specific but, I think, all rooted in EU Directive 2011/83/EU, amongst others.  Deadline for implementation (including EEA states) was 2013.  UK implemented it in 2015, at the latest.

Either way, it should have been in force at the time @thomas bought his unit.  There are practical time limits that may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  The UK implementation (Consumer Rights Act 2015) implies terms into contracts of sale which makes the seller (not necessarily the manufacturer) liable via contract law.  Since the statute of limitations here is six years, that is the absolute longest term of applicability.  Some remedies are limited to a shorter time frame, eg 6 months.

What he implied is some sort of law prescribed lifetime warranty where there is no time limit how long manufacturer has to be fully responsible for the product for free.

No I did not imply that at all.  However, several European countries go much further than the 2 year warranty; they require a product to have a typical useful life as is expected for the type of product. For example: In the Netherlands there is no legal limit to how long a warranty period is in effect; a product must work for a period (at least 2 years) which is to be expected for that type of product.

[2N3055]

I am not the lawyer and also new laws don't mean you can antedate previous contracts.

But I am willing to learn and would be grateful if you would specify what law do you specifically refer to, if you'd  be so kind?

Member-state specific but, I think, all rooted in EU Directive 2011/83/EU, amongst others.  Deadline for implementation (including EEA states) was 2013.  UK implemented it in 2015, at the latest.

Either way, it should have been in force at the time @thomas bought his unit.  There are practical time limits that may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  The UK implementation (Consumer Rights Act 2015) implies terms into contracts of sale which makes the seller (not necessarily the manufacturer) liable via contract law.  Since the statute of limitations here is six years, that is the absolute longest term of applicability.  Some remedies are limited to a shorter time frame, eg 6 months.

What he implied is some sort of law prescribed lifetime warranty where there is no time limit how long manufacturer has to be fully responsible for the product for free.

No I did not imply that at all.  However, several European countries go much further than the 2 year warranty; they require a product to have a typical useful life as is expected for the type of product. For example: In the Netherlands there is no legal limit to how long a warranty period is in effect; a product must work for a period which is to be expected for that type of product.

If that is really how it is Netherlands (mandated lifetime warranty for everything) good for you..!!

You are probably referring to this:
In the Netherlands there is no fixed statutory guarantee period. Your customer must be able to use the product in a normal way for a certain period of time. You must inform your customer of the product's features. The duration of the guarantee depends on the brand, price, and useful life of the product. If the guarantee period has expired, they are still entitled to a sound product.


Reading further, from what I can see, it is worse than in my country. Regardless of supplier warranty (3 years for Siglent for instance), only in first 12 months customer does not need to prove anything. For that period burden of proof is on supplier (they have to prove it is not their fault). After 12 months it is burden of customer to prove they didn't damage device somehow and that it indeed it was factory defect...


What you implied was that this is EU wide thing.  It is not.

[nctnico]

Potato, potaato. Typically laws are pretty uniform across Europe due to consumer clubs working closely together to lobby for new laws. As a result Norway actually has a similar warranty system as in the Netherlands. So all in all the first port of call when you have a broken piece of equipment is the seller and see if they can (at least) help instead of taking a piece of equipment apart.

[Strix]

What he implied is some sort of law prescribed lifetime warranty where there is no time limit how long manufacturer has to be fully responsible for the product for free.

There is no such directive.

Minimum prescribed warranty is 2 years in EU. Siglent gives 3 years.

I didn't read @nctnico that way, but I can see how what he wrote could be. 

No indeed, there is no Directive that creates an open-ended liability on manufacturers.  That 2011 Directive together with Directive 1999/44/EC (which is where the 2-year requirement comes from) creates a liability on sellers by way of breach of contract [of sale] and, rather, manufacturers' liabilities are limited to their product warranties.  AIUI, there is no actual obligation in basic EU law on manufacturers to offer any warranty (but individual member states might create an obligation instead).

Anyway, most of my gear is Siglent.  Not perfect, but I am very happy with the value for money they represent.  The only reason we went for a Rigol spectrum analyser rather than the Siglent equivalent was that Rigol was offering a realtime model with the EMI (and I think preamp) options included for the same money, where we'd have had to pay extra for the EMI option on the Siglent.

We have a Rigol bench supply at work.  Its UI is much nicer but it noisy (fan), and also quite a bit more expensive, IIRC.

[tautech]

Anyway, most of my gear is Siglent.  Not perfect, but I am very happy with the value for money they represent.  The only reason we went for a Rigol spectrum analyser rather than the Siglent equivalent was that Rigol was offering a realtime model with the EMI (and I think preamp) options included for the same money, where we'd have had to pay extra for the EMI option on the Siglent.

Preamp is STD on all Siglent analyzers.

[Strix]

Preamp is STD on all Siglent analyzers.

Yes, but EMI detectors are not, and that was what made the price difference.  Were those options not offered on promotion with Rigol (or were Siglent matching that offer), the choice would have gone in favour of Siglent.