Author Topic: Multimeter fuses  (Read 37037 times)

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Offline Mikke

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2017, 08:25:07 am »
If you work with only low power things then there is no real danger of using a cheap meter with the cheap fuse it comes with. And if you work with large industrial switch panels designed to carry 1000s of amps in normal operations you obviously shouldn't even come close with anything other than a proper high quality meter with proper fuses.

You don't have to work with switch panels or power sockets to get big short circuit currents. A normal car battery has a very low internal resistance and short circuiting one can result in more than 1000 amps. Luckily the test leads have also some resistance. So in case of measuring battery voltage with meter set to "amps", the actual current through your multimeter will be somewhat less.

Being careful helps, but mistakes do happen and then you need the proper fuse.
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2017, 04:44:59 pm »
If you work with only low power things then there is no real danger of using a cheap meter with the cheap fuse it comes with. And if you work with large industrial switch panels designed to carry 1000s of amps in normal operations you obviously shouldn't even come close with anything other than a proper high quality meter with proper fuses.

You don't have to work with switch panels or power sockets to get big short circuit currents. A normal car battery has a very low internal resistance and short circuiting one can result in more than 1000 amps. Luckily the test leads have also some resistance. So in case of measuring battery voltage with meter set to "amps", the actual current through your multimeter will be somewhat less.

Being careful helps, but mistakes do happen and then you need the proper fuse.

Most automotive will be 24V or less.  Do you feel a 250V glass fuse will rupture with a direct connection to the batteries?   


Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2017, 07:53:56 pm »
My first few cars used glass fuses.  A quick search on eBay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-9-Boxes-Fuses-Bowes-Littlefuse-Buss-Automobile-Garage-Gas-Station-Sign-/190878236552

I have some 9A 32V automotive fuses from Bowes and Little Fuse.  They are a 1/4 X 7/8.  You can see them next to the fuses from the UT61E and a 1000V Little Fuse.    I would guess these would rupture before a 250V glass part. 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2017, 03:14:28 am »
Yes the fuse is there only for the time when you stupidly forget you are plugged in to amps and try to measure the voltage of a supply. Just when the said supply is a 12V wall wart all you get is a bit of a spark and the wallwart getting warm. When you do this on a giant 3 phase bus bar the result is a huge arc flash and the chard remains of the electrician that did the stupid mistake.

Voltage overloads in multimeters are usually not as concerning since you rarely encounter more than 1000V at home and if you do it tends to be low current. So as long as you don't try to measure the output of a microwave oven transformer you should be safe.

The question is if a DIYer does the same amps jack mistake in his home mains distribution panel. Could a cheep meter and fuse become more dangerous in such a situation versus a HRC fuse?

I personally never have taken care of using only good quality meters on regular household 230/400V mains. I picked up whatever meter was handy, be it my good Agilent or the cheap 20€ rebadger.

Such accidents which do happen are newsworthy,& are tragedies to those concerned & their families, but are really statistically insignificant.

I have (& I am sure many others have) measured phase -to- phase on a (then) 254/440v system,using AVO 8,early Beckman DMMs,Fluke 77,& a few other multimeters.

When people set out to do such measurements,they approach them differently to "quick checks"on lower voltage circuits.

You don't just "grab the nearest meter", prance up to the 3 phase board like a Smurf and poke the probes in higgledy-piggledy.

The correct approach is to make sure that the test leads are NOT in the current sockets,or if the connections are switched,the meter isn't on a current range.

With the leads correctly configured for voltage readings,check that the meter is switched to the appropriate AC voltage range.
Check the condition of the leads.

Be like Santa & "check it twice".

To be really sure,with the multimeter set up correctly,connect it across a known source of  AC voltage ( normally in Oz,the nearest single phase 230v GPO).
This shows your meter actually works---a dead meter would be more dangerous than anything else.

Now,if you can possibly do so,rest the meter on the floor,or some other support,not handheld.
If at all possible,connect the probes before applying power to the circuit to be tested.

In many cases,you don't need to test "Phase to Phase" & can just measure the lower voltage "Phase to Neutral",or cheat even more & go "Phase to Earth".


 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2017, 06:33:08 pm »
FROM THE ONLINE EEVBlob BM235 USER MANUAL:

Fuse F1 for uAmA current input: 0.4A/1000V DC/AC, IR 30kA FAST fuse or better; Dimension: 6 x 32 mm
SIBA 70-172-40 FF400mA

 
Fuse F2 for A current input: 11A/1000V DC/AC, IR 20kA F fuse or better; Dimension: 10 x 38mm?Bussman DMM-B-11A?Littelfuse FLU011
The uA/mA fuse (F1) isn't all that expensive (Galco carries the Siba 70-172-40 for $7.43).

They also carry the Littlefuse FLU011 for $32.10 (best price I've seen, but still on the expensive side IMHO).

The SIBA equivalent P/N = 5019906.11, and it's a LOT cheaper @ $8.13 from TME (they're located in Poland, but they do ship to the US).  :-+

Forget GALCO, unless you want to buy (10) fuses. I just called them, not in stock, won't be stocked, a 10 fuse order limit. This for the 400m/A fuse. So the search for a reputable USA site where I can buy 3 of these fuses continues!
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2017, 05:22:07 pm »
While I like the BM-235, my frustration finding the SIBA 7017240.0.4 replacement fuse continues. I'm trying to avoid eBay and Amazon as there is no way to know if you are getting a clone/copy.  I called SIBA USA, they gave me 3 US websites to try. Only one even listed the fuse, no stock, minimum order of 10, and it's a SPECIAL order. Not a good situation.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2017, 11:14:31 pm »
While I like the BM-235, my frustration finding the SIBA 7017240.0.4 replacement fuse continues. I'm trying to avoid eBay and Amazon as there is no way to know if you are getting a clone/copy.  I called SIBA USA, they gave me 3 US websites to try. Only one even listed the fuse, no stock, minimum order of 10, and it's a SPECIAL order. Not a good situation.
They're not located in the US, but TME carries both fuses needed for your BM237 and sells them as singles (they're in Poland).
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2017, 12:46:42 am »
While I like the BM-235, my frustration finding the SIBA 7017240.0.4 replacement fuse continues. I'm trying to avoid eBay and Amazon as there is no way to know if you are getting a clone/copy.  I called SIBA USA, they gave me 3 US websites to try. Only one even listed the fuse, no stock, minimum order of 10, and it's a SPECIAL order. Not a good situation.
They're not located in the US, but TME carries both fuses needed for your BM237 and sells them as singles (they're in Poland).

Thanks, I had remembered them from some other comments here someplace and wrote them this morning, but no response yet.

The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?

The larger Bussmann fuse, I solved by getting lucky and was gifted a few of those, so I just need the smaller ones now.

I kept this TME link to a fuse listed as made by "Brymen", but was waiting to see their response to my email.

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm-s_fuse-0.4a/accessories-others/

Thanks for trying to help, getting spare fuses should not be so difficult, I hope Dave considers offering spare fuses next time.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 12:51:59 am by MacMeter »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2017, 05:27:07 pm »
Here is the email reply from TME (note: no mention of the Brymen fuses, I sent a followup email asking about those, but did see NO stock for those on their site either)

------- email quote--------
Hi,
sorry but we don't have it in our offer

Pozdrawiam / Best regards
Patryk Targaszewski

Prosz? o zachowanie ci?g?o?ci korespondencji
Please continuity correspondence

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Transfer Multisort Elektronik Sp. z o.o.
ul.Ustronna 41
93-350 ?ód?
Poland
tel. +48 42 645 55 55
fax +48 42 645 55 00
----- end quote-------

This is getting crazy......
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2017, 11:59:42 pm »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2017, 12:48:38 am »
The 440mA from my Agilent  was open, I noticed it when I wanted to charge the meter. No spare. I almost never use the meter for current and I only use it in my lab for repair work. I do not know why it blew because I have not used it for current since the last charging (about 1 to 2 times a week)
But I needed the meter so I took the bushman fuse apart, Took two fuseholders and used the bajonet caps. I turned them on a lathe to the right size. Then mounted and soldered them in the removed caps of the bushman fuse.  I pushed a 500mA sand filled fuse in it and then pushed in the caps on the bushman body so now I have a fuse that looks like a bushman with a normal cheap replaceable fuse inside.
Yes, I know it is not as save but for my use it is good enough. By the way ever looked what fuses are used in fi the Keithley 2000 benchmeters ? 



www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
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https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2017, 12:55:19 am »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

I called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2017, 03:00:06 am »
I called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".
Hopefully Brymen will surprise you, and sell you what you need (Keysight carries replacement parts & sell to individuals for example).

If not, you'll have to substitute either the 500mA previously linked, or a larger fuse (change the tabs to 10 x 38mm). The trick is to match the breaking voltage and speed (FF) to keep you safe.
 

Offline mrm2007

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2017, 04:55:55 am »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

Hi,

 I'm not sure if they fit into brymen but you could check these fluke fuses:

 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fluke/FUSE-44AMA-1000VB5/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsIz3CjQ1xegYXux9D%252bcUvtHGMXtnTQQJ0%3d

 Pack of 5 for 25.3$ (Single @ 9.6$)
 

Offline 3141592

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2017, 12:28:03 pm »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

I called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".

The guys at Brymen tend to be very helpful, I'm sure you'll get an answer.

Quick googleing led me to this, says it's available, but I've never dealt with them:
https://www.welectron.com/SIBA-701724004-Sicherung-63x32mm-04A-1000V

I would just get the 700VAC 400mA version though, from TME. Or the 500mA 1kV one. Just keep the ratings in mind when using it, it's not that big of a deal for hobby uses.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2017, 01:20:20 pm »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

I called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".

The guys at Brymen tend to be very helpful, I'm sure you'll get an answer.

Quick googleing led me to this, says it's available, but I've never dealt with them:
https://www.welectron.com/SIBA-701724004-Sicherung-63x32mm-04A-1000V

I would just get the 700VAC 400mA version though, from TME. Or the 500mA 1kV one. Just keep the ratings in mind when using it, it's not that big of a deal for hobby uses.

Thanks, but that German website link looks like they don't ship to the USA.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2017, 01:45:39 pm »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

Hi,

 I'm not sure if they fit into brymen but you could check these fluke fuses:

 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fluke/FUSE-44AMA-1000VB5/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsIz3CjQ1xegYXux9D%252bcUvtHGMXtnTQQJ0%3d

 Pack of 5 for 25.3$ (Single @ 9.6$)

Looking at the 440mA Fluke branded fuse:

http://www.myflukestore.com/p7925/Fluke_Fuse_440MA_1000_VB5

Was not able to find the actual SIZE listed, searched other sites, odd that the length and width are not listed. But in looking at the photos, these seem more like the fatter 11a main fuses.

I'm not interested nor feel I should have to modify my new meter to take a replacement fuse. Brymen should have chosen a fuse that users could actually find replacements for. Starting to regret not buying a Fluke in the first place! :(
 

Offline mrm2007

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2017, 08:40:54 pm »

Looking at the 440mA Fluke branded fuse:

http://www.myflukestore.com/p7925/Fluke_Fuse_440MA_1000_VB5

Was not able to find the actual SIZE listed, searched other sites, odd that the length and width are not listed. But in looking at the photos, these seem more like the fatter 11a main fuses.

I'm not interested nor feel I should have to modify my new meter to take a replacement fuse. Brymen should have chosen a fuse that users could actually find replacements for. Starting to regret not buying a Fluke in the first place! :(

Hi,

You are correct. Acording to this amazon page, fluke fuses are 34.9mmx10mm (larger than brymen)


https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-203414-Digital-Multimeter-Replacement/dp/B007I2EERS
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:44:04 pm by mrm2007 »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2017, 10:03:50 pm »
I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.
 

Offline 3141592

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2017, 09:31:08 am »
The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?
Ideally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.

Siba's P/N for such a beast is 7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.  :palm: The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).

The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

I called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".

The guys at Brymen tend to be very helpful, I'm sure you'll get an answer.

Quick googleing led me to this, says it's available, but I've never dealt with them:
https://www.welectron.com/SIBA-701724004-Sicherung-63x32mm-04A-1000V

I would just get the 700VAC 400mA version though, from TME. Or the 500mA 1kV one. Just keep the ratings in mind when using it, it's not that big of a deal for hobby uses.

Thanks, but that German website link looks like they don't ship to the USA.

They do, but worldwide shipping is expensive: https://www.welectron.com/Shipping-cost
I'd drop them an email asking for a lower shipping price.

I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.

You won't buy a replacement that is only 700VAC, or 1kV but 100mA higher, but consider buying Chinese fakes? This doesn't make any sense to me.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2017, 04:33:21 pm »

You won't buy a replacement that is only 700VAC, or 1kV but 100mA higher, but consider buying Chinese fakes? This doesn't make any sense to me.
[/quote]

Sorry, but as I mentioned in my post #57: "The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?"

So I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to SAFELY substitute a fuses VAC or mA rating, or both to arrive at an equal fuse rating. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm simply following the logic that the DMM designers specified a particular fuse for a reason, with safety and and liability considered. Finding the called for replacement fuse, has so far been impossible.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2017, 07:24:32 pm »
I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.
If the picture is the same as the product, this ebay listing seems quite legit.

I ran into a similar problem with the fuses for my Brymen BM857, but these had a slightly different rating (same size but 0,63Ax500V). I ended up buying from Amazon and they are quality fuses. 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 07:27:20 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline wraper

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2017, 07:39:10 pm »
Quote
You won't buy a replacement that is only 700VAC, or 1kV but 100mA higher, but consider buying Chinese fakes? This doesn't make any sense to me.

Sorry, but as I mentioned in my post #57: "The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?"

So I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to SAFELY substitute a fuses VAC or mA rating, or both to arrive at an equal fuse rating. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm simply following the logic that the DMM designers specified a particular fuse for a reason, with safety and and liability considered. Finding the called for replacement fuse, has so far been impossible.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2017, 04:47:36 am »
I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.
If the picture is the same as the product, this ebay listing seems quite legit.

I ran into a similar problem with the fuses for my Brymen BM857, but these had a slightly different rating (same size but 0,63Ax500V). I ended up buying from Amazon and they are quality fuses.

Thanks, in fact I found the same EBay seller earlier the same day you posted. According to the sellers profile, he lives in the U.K., and the prices seemed proper, so I doubt they are fakes. I ordered a 5 pack. In the meantime I finally heard back from Brymen, of course this was after I placed the EBay order. Here is a link to the USA website that has the fuse, though the code is totally different, the specs are correct. $8.00/each is a bit more expensive then the eBay sellers price, they even have the larger 11amp fuse on the site, again the code is not a Bussmann fuse in that case, oddly enough it's the same price as the smaller .4amp fuse. Not a big deal, but I did respond back to Brymen, asking why the code is different, as I suspect it is not a SIBA brand fuse. I hope all this nonsense helps another BM235 owner that believes having a few proper spare fuses is smart.

http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/FS2MAFUSE/MD319-FS2-FUSE/
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Multimeter fuses
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2017, 12:45:07 pm »
I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.
If the picture is the same as the product, this ebay listing seems quite legit.

I ran into a similar problem with the fuses for my Brymen BM857, but these had a slightly different rating (same size but 0,63Ax500V). I ended up buying from Amazon and they are quality fuses.

Thanks, in fact I found the same EBay seller earlier the same day you posted. According to the sellers profile, he lives in the U.K., and the prices seemed proper, so I doubt they are fakes. I ordered a 5 pack. In the meantime I finally heard back from Brymen, of course this was after I placed the EBay order. Here is a link to the USA website that has the fuse, though the code is totally different, the specs are correct. $8.00/each is a bit more expensive then the eBay sellers price, they even have the larger 11amp fuse on the site, again the code is not a Bussmann fuse in that case, oddly enough it's the same price as the smaller .4amp fuse. Not a big deal, but I did respond back to Brymen, asking why the code is different, as I suspect it is not a SIBA brand fuse. I hope all this nonsense helps another BM235 owner that believes having a few proper spare fuses is smart.

http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/FS2MAFUSE/MD319-FS2-FUSE/
Thanks for the info; I can even find the fuses for my BM857 there.

I agree with you; they may not be SIBA fuses.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 


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