Suggestion on getting a new Oscilloscope

[tautech]

Well... I'd like to see some hard numbers to back that statement. Several people have returned their Rigol MSO5000 due to bugs and missing of features. Siglent does seem to have a better handle on things and for audio the higher sensitivity is good to have.

Here, hands up...

Owned formerly a full optioned MSO5K I was disappointed on how they handle firmware update rate, also the noiselevel of the frontend was disappointing.
Then the siglent sds2k+ came along...
Bigger, brighter, better screen, better response of touchscreen, better UI, better performance in general (not overall), 50ohm inputs, autosense inputs, eres functions which works, comes with 200mpt memory without hacking, comes with several serial decodings without hacking, could be upgraded up to 500Mhz, more quality build and look in general and the first fw update got two new features...
Didn´t regret the change at any time, but both scopes got one thing in common:
For a beginner, there are more models wide under their prices avaible.

What does the difference in gigasamples between the two scopes actually look like in real life? Did it make a difference to you and if yes, at what bandwidth?

Remember you need factor in how many channels are used and how they are used for 4ch Siglent DSO's
All current 4ch Siglent models use 2 ADC's and in case of SDS2004X Plus models 2*2 GSa/s, each with 200 MPts support.
Therefore using 2 channels, one on each ADC both have 2 GHz sampling and 200 Mpts mem depth.
A fully optioned SDS2354X Plus with 500 MHz option still offers 2 GSa/s on 2 channels which comfortably meets Nyquist.
When 4 channels are active sampling falls to 1 GSa/s/ch and the total memory depth is divided equally for 100 Mpts/ch where @ 350 MHz Nyquist is still met.

If we were to use the scope exclusively in Dot mode the lesser sampling rate would be apparent in captures where less data points would be present.

[Ctrlocti]

Well... I'd like to see some hard numbers to back that statement. Several people have returned their Rigol MSO5000 due to bugs and missing of features. Siglent does seem to have a better handle on things and for audio the higher sensitivity is good to have.

Here, hands up...

Owned formerly a full optioned MSO5K I was disappointed on how they handle firmware update rate, also the noiselevel of the frontend was disappointing.
Then the siglent sds2k+ came along...
Bigger, brighter, better screen, better response of touchscreen, better UI, better performance in general (not overall), 50ohm inputs, autosense inputs, eres functions which works, comes with 200mpt memory without hacking, comes with several serial decodings without hacking, could be upgraded up to 500Mhz, more quality build and look in general and the first fw update got two new features...
Didn´t regret the change at any time, but both scopes got one thing in common:
For a beginner, there are more models wide under their prices avaible.

What does the difference in gigasamples between the two scopes actually look like in real life? Did it make a difference to you and if yes, at what bandwidth?

Remember you need factor in how many channels are used and how they are used for 4ch Siglent DSO's
All current 4ch Siglent models use 2 ADC's and in case of SDS2004X Plus models 2*2 GSa/s, each with 200 MPts support.
Therefore using 2 channels, one on each ADC both have 2 GHz sampling and 200 Mpts mem depth.
A fully optioned SDS2354X Plus with 500 MHz option still offers 2 GSa/s on 2 channels which comfortably meets Nyquist.
When 4 channels are active sampling falls to 1 GSa/s/ch and the total memory depth is divided equally for 100 Mpts/ch where @ 350 MHz Nyquist is still met.

If we were to use the scope exclusively in Dot mode the lesser sampling rate would be apparent in captures where less data points would be present.

yep, I'm aware. Just pondering about the real-life application of the difference between 8gs vs 2gs, 4 vs 2 and 2 vs 1 on a trace at X signal frequency. Nyquist is technically met even with the 500mhz on the Siglent, but what does it really mean to have 40 sample rate: signal frequency compared to 10 or 20 ratio? In real terms I mean. Does it matter? What's that golden ratio? Nyquist says 2 but eh...

It's like when talking about any tool - we all want the bigger, better number but there is a point where that number is good enough and it doesn't matter after that point. I like finding those points, it's interesting

Anyway this is more of a theoretical conversation.

[bdunham7]

What's that golden ratio? Nyquist says 2 but eh...

Anyway this is more of a theoretical conversation.

I think 10 is good enough, but others claim the correct answer is 42.

[tautech]

It's like when talking about any tool - we all want the bigger, better number but there is a point where that number is good enough and it doesn't matter after that point. I like finding those points, it's interesting

Anyway this is more of a theoretical conversation.

Yes, and examined in the Scope Wars thread.
You might find the info in this post interesting:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-wars/msg3121780/#msg3121780

[Martin72]

We have some good old classics from lecroy here, Waverunner LT series.
200Mhz/200MSa/s, 500Mhz/1GSa/s, 350Mhz/1GSa/s...And they all did their job.
First I was expressed from the 8GSa/s the rigol mso 5k offers ( and to be honest, this value is still a groundbreaker in it´s class and beyond, noticed on the paper).
But very soon I´ll take notice that in practice you won´t loose a thing having this or "only" 2GSa/s.
So as always I go along with tv84 when he say, if you can spend max. 1000 bucks get the rigol 5000, if you can spend 400 bucks more, go for the siglent 2k+.
Mic drop...

[Ctrlocti]

What's that golden ratio? Nyquist says 2 but eh...

Anyway this is more of a theoretical conversation.

I think 10 is good enough, but others claim the correct answer is 42.

  nice one

[Ctrlocti]

It's like when talking about any tool - we all want the bigger, better number but there is a point where that number is good enough and it doesn't matter after that point. I like finding those points, it's interesting

Anyway this is more of a theoretical conversation.

Yes, and examined in the Scope Wars thread.
You might find the info in this post interesting:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-wars/msg3121780/#msg3121780

interesting thread, thanks

[Ctrlocti]

We have some good old classics from lecroy here, Waverunner LT series.
200Mhz/200MSa/s, 500Mhz/1GSa/s, 350Mhz/1GSa/s...And they all did their job.
First I was expressed from the 8GSa/s the rigol mso 5k offers ( and to be honest, this value is still a groundbreaker in it´s class and beyond, noticed on the paper).
But very soon I´ll take notice that in practice you won´t loose a thing having this or "only" 2GSa/s.
So as always I go along with tv84 when he say, if you can spend max. 1000 bucks get the rigol 5000, if you can spend 400 bucks more, go for the siglent 2k+.
Mic drop...

I already got it yesterday. Just musing on the difference of gigasamples. Did you notice a point (in signal frequency) where the extra GSa/s of the rigol were useful to you? Or you didn't push the scopes that high?