Mid- to high-range multimeter?

[casper.bang]

Hey there, I'm a pseudo-noob rediscovering his electronics hoppy, happy to have come by EEVBlog and Davs's video.

As so many others, looking for a medium to high quality multi-meter (€ 200-300). Fluke would obviously be awesome, but the 87V is rather expensive and I don't think I need quite that level of features. However, the Fluke 177 looks really good (aesthetically it looks like the best meter of them all I find) and I can live without uA I think. I expect this multimeter to be with me (household, RC hobby and circuit prototyping hobby) for 10+ years.

I see that Dave has done a review of the cheaper multimeters (incl. Fluke 117) and some of the more exotic/expensive ones (incl. Fluke 87V). I'd love to see the mid- to high-range (entry level electronics) review with meter slike the Fluke 177/179 as well as the BRYMEN BM867. I realize the Brymen is Chinese and not quite the same quality, but it sure does offer bang for the buck.

What do you think? Will I regret getting the Brymen for it's 50000(0) count over Fluke 177/179's 6000?

[SLJ]

That would be your choice between the two.  Lots of comments here on both.  I would just make sure whatever you get will do uV and True RMS.  Of course chances are good the Fluke will still be working well in 20 years.

[retiredcaps]

I'd love to see the mid- to high-range (entry level electronics) review with meter slike the Fluke 177/179 as well as the BRYMEN BM867.

Martin has done a review of both, but not as a comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB46F445E454CD696

[casper.bang]

Just saw a related question in the forum history:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-177-for-electronics-use/

Dave even chimes in, calling the 170 series an electricians meter (huh, then what is the 110 series, a carpenters meter?).

I'm pretty sure a lower range of 0.01-60.00 mA is going to be fine for me though given the high quality of the meter. How often (what scenarios) is < 1/100 mA (1V over a 1M resister) resolution required in practice?

[psycho0815]

Personally i think in that price-range an agilent U1242B is better value for the money, but for that kind of money you should be able to get a mint-condition fluke 87-V on ebay.

[Matje]

Just saw a related question in the forum history:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-177-for-electronics-use/

Dave even chimes in, calling the 170 series an electricians meter (huh, then what is the 110 series, a carpenters meter?).

;-) Well...

I'm pretty sure a lower range of 0.01-60.00 mA is going to be fine for me though given the high quality of the meter. How often (what scenarios) is < 1/100 mA (1V over a 1M resister) resolution required in practice?

Resolution and accuracy are two different things. With the 177 a reading of 0.1mA will have an error of about +31%(!)/-1% (spec says 1.0% + 3 counts), if it had a real µA range, say 600µA, the error would be about +4%/-1%. 0.1mA is not that unusual with todays low power stuff.

Anyway, you will find out soon enough that one DMM is not enough, blowing all available money on one device is not wise... ;-)

[Lightages]

Brymen BM869
Agilent U1242B
UEi DM397  if you can find it in europe

All three great meters and better value for the money than the Flukes IMHO.

I have the BM869 and soon the UEi DM397.

[casper.bang]

Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. Me thinking loud:

At €191* the Agilent's U1242B looks nice, but continuity test seems a little slow; capacitance notoriously bad and there's no peak/auto-hold. The step-up to the U12572B at €332** solves most of these issues, but then it almost competes directly with Fluke 87V (loosing out to superior continuity, test leads and battery life). Agilent's durable and great looking designs with matching long-lasting backlight and updatable firmware is very appealing though.

At €183*** the Brymen BM869 is tremendous bang for the buck, but a lack of peak/auto-hold, the lame 16sec backlight timeout and does not seem to fit the profile of a trustworthy high-quality meter for the next 10+ years. I already have an aging non-autoranging meter which I don't trust or like. Getting the BM869 would be short-term gratification but I'm afraid this would not last long.

The de-facto standard Fluke 87V needs no mentioning but is practicably unpayable for hobbyists in Europe (€500+). However, it just so happen that I have relation in Canada, and could get it for CAN$393/€296 if I am willing to wait until summer or arrange proxy shipping (and risk it getting caught in customs having to pay a hefty +25% plus fees).

* http://www.tme.eu/en/details/u1242b/portable-digital-multimeters/agilent-technologies/#
** http://www.tme.eu/en/details/u1272a/portable-digital-multimeters/agilent-technologies/#t234ff1e58fc130128a85ce75e5bca2b9
*** http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/#
**** http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0002YFD1K/

[psycho0815]

The U1242B does have auto-hold, even though it doesn't say so on the meter.
The continuity, admittedly is a bit on the slow side.
Display and Backlight are actually better than the fluke.
Display has better contrast, not by much and the backlight is more even.
Not by a long shot but still.

[retiredcaps]

The de-facto standard Fluke 87V needs no mentioning but is practicably unpayable for hobbyists in Europe (€500+). However, it just so happen that I have relation in Canada, and could get it for CAN$393/€296 if I am willing to wait until summer or arrange proxy shipping (and risk it getting caught in customs having to pay a hefty +25% plus fees).

Warranty might be an issue?  I'm not 100% sure how it works, but you should check that area and how "lifetime warranty" applies to you when getting someone else to buy and then shipping to a different country.

An alternative is to get your relative to look for an used 87V for about $200 Canadian.  Obviously with used, you will have no warranty, but you can get the relative to check it out when they buy in person (say off kijiji).

[alm]

Resolution and accuracy are two different things. With the 177 a reading of 0.1mA will have an error of about +31%(!)/-1% (spec says 1.0% + 3 counts), if it had a real µA range, say 600µA, the error would be about +4%/-1%. 0.1mA is not that unusual with todays low power stuff.

The offset error (counts) can be both positive and negative, so the error would be +/- 31%.

[Lightages]

At €183*** the Brymen BM869 is tremendous bang for the buck, but a lack of peak/auto-hold, the lame 16sec backlight timeout and does not seem to fit the profile of a trustworthy high-quality meter for the next 10+ years. I already have an aging non-autoranging meter which I don't trust or like. Getting the BM869 would be short-term gratification but I'm afraid this would not last long.

The Brymen does not have the history that the Fluke does for sure, but I can assure you it is built very well with thick and high quality materials, it has the highest input protection rating possible right now of CATIV/1000V, it meets its accuracy, and has all the features one could want except for internal data logging. It is sealed against dust at least with o-rings everywhere, possible to the point of being water proof but I am not claiming that. As far as "autohold" goes, it is a nice feature but hardly a deal breaker. You can use the max/min (called "rec") or the "Crest" function just as well. All you need to do is push a button just like is needed to activate "autohold" on the other others. The continuity test is instant, I cannot hear a delay.

What is it lacking? Well it reads down to 0.01nF only, ohm down to 0.01 only, long battery life as it probably only good for 150hrs, and it is rated to only 1MHz for frequency measurement.


The U1242B is worse on all ranges for accuracy and counts and resolution but it is a good meter too.

Yes if you want to spend much more then there are many other options, Fluke 289, Agilent 1252 or 1272 etc. If I were to buy an Agilent it would be the U1252B. The Flukes are just not that great a value IMHO.

Don't forget the UEi DM397 if you have a friend to send/bring it from the US. It is a great buy, probably the best of the whole bunch.

[casper.bang]

If I were to buy an Agilent it would be the U1252B. The Flukes are just not that great a value IMHO.

I'm curious, why the U1252B over the U1272A? Dave was close to recommending the U1272A as in the same category as the Fluke 87V, if it weren't for the reliability/firmware issues.

I ask because I noticed the cheapest supplier of multimeters in Europe (tme.eu) offers an interesting combo with the U1272A and an Agilent E3610A/E3611A lab power supply for just €383/US$494: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/e3611a/one-channel-power-supplies/agilent-technologies/#

Given that the meter alone is €332/US$429 with tme.eu, that seems cheap (€51/US$66) for an Agilent linear low-ripple power supply with passive cooling and 10 turn pots (as Dave recommends): http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-838244-pn-E3611A/30w-power-supply-20v-15a-or-35v-085a

What do you guys think?

[psycho0815]

I bought an Agilent E3611A recently. It came with the U1271A as per the Promotion. The PSU is a really nice piece of kit. I cant really measure the ripple, but it's right down in the noise on my DS1052. It reads about 15mV RMS, but that's propably more due to the scope than the PSU. It doesnt overshoot either.
As for the Meter: I really like it. I didn't have any issues with it so far. If your in the market for a benchtop PSU anyway, i would definitely say, go for it. I suppose you could also resell the PSU on ebay.
as for tme.eu be aware thet all their prices are excluding vat. Also they don't seem to have the best of services.
I got mine from conrad for 430€ incl. VAT

[casper.bang]

Yeah tme.eu does scare me a bit, I've read a report from another user on this forum. I'm well aware of Conrad, in fact I bought my current Metex multimeter from them a good 15 years ago. Unfortunately I can't find a similar deal with Conrad, in fact the E3610A is a redicilous €401/$US518 there making the tme.eu deal look even better:
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/128042/Agilent-Technologies-E3610A-OPT-0E3-902-Single-Output-Variable-DC-Power-Supply-Linear-Bench

Update: Apparently it's a general Agilent special offer:
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=DE&lc=ger&ckey=2204179&nid=-11143.0.00&id=2204179

[psycho0815]

That's odd. It seams like the english site doesn't list the promotion. The german one still does. Maybe give them a call?

[casper.bang]

That's odd. It seams like the english site doesn't list the promotion. The german one still does. Maybe give them a call?

Yeah, I found the offer by chance after watching this guy (got to practice my German):



Apparently only the Americas are left out of the promotion, but I think I will give them a call. Seems hard to beat this offer for people in need of a good initial lab setup?!

[Lightages]

If I were to buy an Agilent it would be the U1252B. The Flukes are just not that great a value IMHO.

I'm curious, why the U1252B over the U1272A? Dave was close to recommending the U1272A as in the same category as the Fluke 87V, if it weren't for the reliability/firmware issues.

Well, the 1252 has 50,000 count versus 30,000, better accuracy in almost all modes, square wave generator, versus the 1272 which has more logging capability and better environment protection. I don't leave my meters outside in the rain, I have very infrequent need to log things and if I do I can leave my netbook connected to the meter to log, and I prefer the looks of the 125X series.