Mastech MS5308 LCR meter with ESR measurement - on discount at the moment

[Circuitous]

@pa4tim  I look forward to hearing about your experience with the DE-5000 when you get it.

I've debated the DE-5000 vs. the Mastech.  I think the recent posts about the Mastech have convinced me to go with the alternative 4-wire ESR.
Does anyone know of a good US supplier, or should I just order it from http://www.ietlabs.com/de5000-lcr-meter.html  ?

[robrenz]

I bought mine direct from IET.  You can go to amazon but it is supplied by IET anyway at the same price.

I love mine but be aware there is NO INPUT PROTECTION.  The board looks like it has pads for protection diodes but it is unpopulated.  I have asked IET about what it could be populated with but have gotten no response yet.

[PA4TIM]

Now I think about it, Bridges ect also do not have input protection. You do not use 4 wire technic to polute measurements with protection devices ( sparcgaps, diodes and zeners have capacitance l inductance and leakage current)

But there is no warning on the cover or in the manual about overload ( or I missed it) and i looked for that.

I bought mine as a private person from IET direct. But I know someone ( from mail, helped me a lot with advise when restoring my GR1608) who used to work there for many many years. That helped probably. I do not know if they sell to private persons normaly.

I have seen the mastech video but there are many things different. Like the mastech des not work on 9 V, the IET does, the IET has autopower of, also for the backlite, the calbutton is on the front, where it belongs, the accuracy is given for each range separate including things like tempco but best is 0.3 % and mastech 0.5 % but I could not find more. And there are more small differenences. Like the guard output, banana busses, case. But indeed a lot of similarities in functions (like always when people clone something and want you to think it is the same) and the pcb is green and uses two chips. But I do not care, IET has a reputation to hold to, they will not gambe with that. They make c meters that cost over 20k Dollar, this is the only affortable instrument they make so it would be stupid to screw that up. So that is more inportsnt to me. Every time I made an other choise i have regretted it in the end. I had a rigol scope I hated, i had a Voltcraft LCR meter ( 180 euro) that I did not like, had a 250 euro Voltcraft scope meter that died making a mistake that did no harm to my Fluke ( because after the VC blew up I took my oldest Fluke and that only said overload. After the Rigol I desides not to buy B brands any more but save longer or buy a good used one from a A brand. So now I have bought new over some years: a very good 350 MHz Hameg DSO ( i love it), an Agilent 50K count hand multimeter that is still going strong after a lot of use and abuse and a Keithley 2000 i like and use a lot. The rest is second hand stuff, often restorred by myself and most bought for peanuts or got it for free. But all top instruments. Like Jim Williams writes in the first chapter of his book, there is nothing more educational as repairing ( and a picture with a scope under repair, a pizza and some drinks and the text with it, live can not become better then this.) and he wrote, i'm probably he only one on a flee market willing to pay more for a broken instrument as for a working one ;-)

The chipset is not visible on the teardown from dave so the guess is only it uses the same chipset. But it is also possible the cirrus is a copy of the IET or the IET is a custom version or better speced one.  I think the potting is not to hide the readings , there are more easy ways to do that, but i would expect the potting has to do with more precision ( like potted or sealed resistors and caps to keep moisture ans leakage through dirt have less influence) I have seen boards in calibrators there were totaly coverd with a sort of potting layer. I had to replace a part on duch a board, i ad to use a drenel firs to remove his very thin film before I could desolder ( also have seen boards Printing : look out, do not touch, ultrasonic cleaned)

Hmmm, another piece of consumer electronic shit died on me, now I have to look to my router. It is constantly stops the wifi

[mrubbert]

Thanks PA4TIM, now i also whant IET meter, if i just had the passion like Jim Williams (never heard of him before).
http://www.introni.it/pdf/Williams%2007%20-%20Book%20Chapters.pdf
Picture is in chapter: Importence of fixing.

If money was for nothing and the chicks for free "Dire Straits"   

Sometime i need to take a strong drink and make the order,  at that moment i got passion and are not afraid of: I dont have a work ? If the car gets broken ? The roof on house is not that good ? when did i buy new cloths last time? how does it affect wife and children? Charter flight to warm place in winter? only have analog oscilloscope ? just whant to repair home electronic ? Alway good to have automotive diagnose equipment ? dosent make money on electronic but save some ? uhhh... Doctor,doctor give me the news

 Right now a cocktail and EL-cheapo cyrustek fits good, other side of head tells " i hate work with cheap meters that i cant trust" so Better meters are only better for messuring !     I have no problem to afford IET, i just like to put my money where i making money, love all kind of tools they always saving money so its maybe stupid to buy EL-cheapo..................


I baught i dedicated capacitanse only meter 15 years ago and it still working.
If IET meter last 10 year then cost is only 40 us$/year, that is cheap !

Finally the calculation is done ! 

No need of strong drink to order IET, but for the passion to repair. 

[KD0CAC John]

Now that this issues have been found , I hope to see some mods / upgrades

[grenert]

The IET is actually not made by them.  It is made in Taiwan by a company called DER-EE.  It appears to be a standard Cirrus chipset design generally (the IET manual is basically the chipset manual), but done without shortcuts (e. g., penny-pinching on the power supply, oversized case to use up some surplus cases).  As PA4TIM says, they have a reputation to keep up, and they apparently confirmed the performance of that LCR meter.  I'm very happy with mine, but I have to admit I have nothing better to compare with.  I completely agree that buying from top names (new or used) is a way to get a well-designed product without headaches.  It may be overpriced for what it is, it may have less features, but you will never think, "I HATE this thing!  This design is ridiculous!  Didn't they try using this thing before deciding to sell it???"  Packing a power supply that causes the meter to malfunction is unacceptable at any price, in my opinion, and clearly some shortcut must have been taken on the power input that the meter doesn't even recognize that the power supply is malfunctioning and continues to pretend everything is fine.

[mrubbert]

If you whant to mod this ?
Then start with input power switching: Inrush current, transients, noise, softswitching between battery and adapter.... + everything else i have no clue about.

Here is something Linear using in cellphones and laptops: http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/4411fa.pdf

How fun is it to pay 200 and start with that, looks like multilayer PCB, not dubble.
More fun if you manage to read eprom and figure out how the calibrate it, maybe copy IET and paste in 5308.

Its possible that EL-cheapo cyrustek meters have a contract that Dosent allow them to have better spec. Buisness is buisness and someone have paid alot for development !

[kripton2035]

cyrustek has orders not to sell their chip to non (lcr)-instruments-making companies...

[mrubbert]

...... John,  wish to mod-modificate it or upgrade, Not build new one.

Thanks, its good to know that you cant buy new chipset if you blow them up.

[kripton2035]

if you want to have a good lcr meter and have full access to chips and source code, just build this one :
http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-go-russian.html

[mrubbert]

@grenert, good point about Taiwan made, prefer to support EU or US economy.  another miss in calculation. 

This is original Taiwan made ! that means IET,BK,Agilent.... are clones 
http://www.lutron.com.tw/ugC_ShowroomItem_Detail.asp?hidKindID=3&hidTypeID=158&hidCatID=&hidShowID=1226&hidPrdType=&txtSrhData=


This is good exampel planned downgrad spec. :* Function is same as the LCR-9184, but without LCD backlight structure, without sorting function
?and the spec. accuracy is larger than LCR-9184.. (in % ) = worse.

Did throw away a mail to them. IF its cost 100$ with shipment when its intressting.

Better picture and info.: http://www.pedak.nl/Lutron/pdf/LCR-9184.pdf

In europe it cost almost same as IET=forget it

[mrubbert]

@kripton2035, thanks it looks very nice, but i have no time to build things. I am just a simple repair man and only missing ESR, Df readings. So i dosent need the best spec.

[PA4TIM]

IET Labs told me it is their design and made under their supervision/control in Taiwan. That was the only way to keep the price down.
But you can get it for 150 dollar more with nist certificate. You do not offer that option if it is not a good design and if the specs are only made for marketing.

Using a manufacturer or a existing chipset does non mean they are clones or have the same specs or quality. In that case you could say every multimeter using a LM399 is as good. But if the resistors in model X are carbon composite and in model Y  vaccuum sealed 0.001% wirewound with zero tempco
I think the LM399 in the first is a waist, but 90 % of EEV blog will say, great, model X is a great bang for buck. I buy that one because it is a clone from Y and uses a LM399 so it must be as good 

[alm]

Are they clones, or all they all based on the sane Cyrustek reference design?

[robrenz]

IET Labs told me it is their design and made under their supervision/control in Taiwan. That was the only way to keep the price down.

That is a little different than the story I got when I asked the same question about a year and a half ago. This is from one of my first posts on this forum about the meter. 

"I talked to an IET tech before I bought it and asked how they achieved this price. He quickly said Taiwan. They looked a long time to find a meter that they felt lived up to the IET reputation. They finally found this meter and after extensive testing partnered with them to sell this meter."

[PA4TIM]

Maybe I misunderstoot, English is not my native tongue. He wrote: the LCR Meter is manufactured in Taiwan under our direction. I thought that that means they own the factory so ( a directeur in Dutch is the boss/owner of a company, so i think Direction means they own that company but you are frim the US so you can tell. So it is a construction like the Agilent multimeters ? ( allthough Agilent later bought that company)

Fact is, if they designed it or not, or maybe partly, it lives up to the hight IET standards and that is what matters for me. But do  I understand it well, you have it now for over a year ? And you are still satified ?

Hope it arrives soon and I'm anxious to know how accurate it meaures my standard ( GR, ESI, Philips, HP) and against the Boonton 63H, GR1620, GR1608 and VNA
Alltough testing inductors does not make much sense because selfinductances varies rather much under voltage, current, frequency and DC bias.

[robrenz]

I am very satisfied with the DE-5000. Like you, I did a lot of research on what was available and even called IET to find out how a US company with their reputation could sell a meter at this price point.  The Agilent U1733C had a lot of adjustable user interface features that are very nice and slightly better banner spec. But I could not get past the total lack of 4 wire connections and the poorer low ohms performance.

I compared the DE-5000 to my calibrated LOM-510A micro ohm meter on a nominally 50mOhm resistor.  LOM-510A reads 58.76mOhm (max error +/- 35uOhm) and the DE-5000 in series resistance mode at 1kHz reads a very slow bobble between 58-59mOhm and it is on 59 most of the time.  This is with my kelvin connectors shown here http://youtu.be/wwgO6Lg4RZM?t=50m12s added to the tweezer or alligator clip adapter box.  the alligator clips that come with the unit are not kelvin even though the source and sense are kept separate all the way to the clip.

I have nothing to verify the accuracy of its capacitance or inductance. That is why I am very excited that you are getting one.  I am sure you are not going to learn anything about LCR from me, but this may be of interest from another post.

DE-5000 LCR meter on ESR measurements. I was initially disappointed at the low ESR resolution on large value caps but then I wondered if the series resistance mode gives the same readings as ESR in capacitance mode.

To access ESR, D, Q , and theta you have to be in manual series capacitance mode (not auto LCR mode) then you can cycle through each on the secondary display. I can measure a 1000uF cap at 100Hz thru 1kHz but at 10kHz and 100kHz it gives overload which it should. In auto LCR mode it actually shows the inductance of the cap at 100kHz.

The max ESR resolution at 1kHz is 0.01 Ohm and this 1000uF cap reads 0.04 Ohm.  If I switch to reading series resistance it reads .047 Ohm (1mOhm resolution) still at 1kHz. Now in series resistance mode I can switch the frequency to 10kHz and it reads 0.045 Ohm and switch to 100kHz and it reads 0.032 Ohm.

Now a 6000uF cap (reads 7450uF) at 120Hz gives an ESR of 0.0  and I cant go to 1kHz because it will show overload. Switch to series resistance mode and I get 0.075 Ohm at 1kHz, 0.068 Ohm at 10kHz, and 0.065 Ohm at 100kHz.

So it seems the series resistance mode is an effective high resolution ESR reading and allows all frequencies to be used. I could be misguided here so please comment if this is bogus.

EDIT: fixed video link

[mrubbert]

Cheaper then ms5308 was a dead end to me, shit so many hours on that adventure.
I will give Mastech one more chance and never put poweradapter in to it.
Next choice is IET.

Good info robrenz, have to check the video also.
It will be intresting when master PA4TIM compares with your meter.

Always good thing and not to buy from a shitplace like aliexpress.
Just return it if you not like it !

[nixxon]

Reply from seller regarding faulty power supply:

Dear "nixxon",

That's good, thanks for your information.also the manufacturer are working at the issue now, we will get back to you when we get the further solution from manufacturer, thank you.

- smtzone

[iloveelectronics]

I finally received my first order of MS5308's today. I will be making a post under the Buy and Sell forum soon but before that I'd like to first report what I found with the unit I tested regarding the power adapter issue.

I watched John's video review again, specially the part where he showed the problem with resistance measurement when plugged in with the power adapter. I tried to replicate what he did. So here are my findings:

- At lower reistance, up to about 5k ohms, the power adapter has no effect on the reading at all.
- Starting from near 5k to near 10k, the reading would either jump up or down a little the moment you plug in the adapter, but would soon settle back to the original reading
- From near 10k onwards, the effect becomes more apparent. The reading would not settle to the original value anymore. At 20k ohms, which is what John showed in his video, my unit reads about 19.7k (as oppose to John's 29k or something).
- The drift in the readings becomes more and more significant as the resistance value goes up. At about 470k my unit reads 503k, representing an error of about 7%.

Now, I have no idea if they have partially fixed the problem in this batch sent me, or is it just different behaviours on different units. I will try to contact the manufacturer and see if I can get a response.

[KD0CAC John]

Again after all this I would hope to see a mod be developed , not enough knowledge on my end , but have a new MS5308 .
 

[mrubbert]

Does anyone have newer revision on MS5308 main meter PCB, time stamp 2011-05 ( or something ).

IET was on rev.5 in 2011. That explains something to.

[KD0CAC John]

I got mine through ebay a couple months ago , from China , I opened mine to check if the neg. wire was moved from the through-hole over to the SMD cap , and it was .
I did not check / or remember the board vs. but will check when I get a chance , will try to post tomorrow .

[nixxon]

I finally received my first order of MS5308's today. I will be making a post under the Buy and Sell forum soon but before that I'd like to first report what I found with the unit I tested regarding the power adapter issue.

I watched John's video review again, specially the part where he showed the problem with resistance measurement when plugged in with the power adapter. I tried to replicate what he did. So here are my findings:

As I wrote previously: Do not use the original power adapter that came with the MS5308. This will possibly fry (or damage) your MS5308. Use the meter on battery power until further notice from the manufacturer. A set of AA batteries should last for a month of heavy use. Any other (linear) low ripple 12V power supply may be OK, but we dont know for sure yet

[nixxon]

Again after all this I would hope to see a mod be developed , not enough knowledge on my end , but have a new MS5308 .

Are you thinking about modding the AC power supply?