Magnova oscilloscope

[Sorama]

I would rather say early birthday/santa/new year present….

Edit:dunno why it is upside down

[KungFuJosh]

Edit:dunno way it is upside down

The Magnova has an anti-gravity feature?!

[Sorama]

Edit:dunno way it is upside down

The Magnova has an anti-gravity feature?!

Or I was in ‘higher spheres’ ?
Altough it was a bit too early in the morning to get drunk.

[pmcouto]

Santa came early this year! 

Did you move to Venezuela?

Venezuela???
Why Venezuela? 

[Tomki]

Hello,

Thank you, Blackdog, for your guidance. I followed your instructions closely.

I used my Siglent SDG2042X (not hacked), along with a low-noise Keithley 4801 BNC cable, connected to a Tekbox 50-ohm feedthrough termination (DC-1 GHz). Unfortunately, I didn’t have an attenuator available, but I believe this setup was a reasonable alternative.

The oscilloscope was set to a 50-ohm termination. I tested a 10 MHz square wave, 1Vpp, with a 50-ohm load on the AWG.

Attached is the result from the Magnova. As other members suggested, the limiting factor was indeed the AWG. I apologize for jumping to conclusions too quickly in my previous message.

Looks like you set the input impedance of Ch1 to 50 ohm and used additonally a 50 ohm feedthrough terminator?? Is this how it is supposed to be?

[nctnico]

Santa came early this year! 

Did you move to Venezuela?

Venezuela???
Why Venezuela? 

Offtopic: it was Christmas in Venezuela one or two days ago by presidential order. Maybe next year it will be even sooner as the president may not want to way for Christmas gifts for a whole year.

[king2]

Congratulations to all who bought Magnova and to Andre77 for making something great on oscilloscope market!

But.. I have a question. I want to have a new oscilloscope and have to choose:

At one side absolutely new BMO350 - 350M bandwidth, unknown (for me, at least) input schematics, BUT with 1920x1080 15.6" display, display port interface, 12 bit resolution and 4x1GSa/s (or 2x1.6GSa/s). ~5250 euros (VAT + delivery + local taxes) here. Can be improved by direct connect with developers by suggesting new features.

At other side Lecroy 64XI-A - 600MHz bandwidth and 4x5GSa/s or 2x10GSa/s, input from famous brand, ALL options enabled, HDD replaced to SDD. BUT 1024x768 and smaller display, VGA as video output, resistive touch screen, Windows XP, 15 years of age. ~2750 euros here.

I owned Micsig and OWON scopes, so I have absolutely no idea about features and UX (and found no videos/reviews about 64XI-A) and pluses and minuses for both of them.

I was really impressed by Magnova and I want to have bleeding edge oscilloscope.
Maybe someone can point me to something that can help me to choose Magnova BMO350 over Lecroy 64XI-A (and pay 2500 euros more for it)?

Thank you in advance!

[Sorama]

As always: what would you like to analyse with the scope?
Do you need in depth math functions?
…

[Sorama]

although I don't like to (mis)use a forum for giving "negative" feedback, I allow myself to give my first impression of the recently bought Magnova scope, given that @Andre77 has given great feedback through this channel.

It's by no means really negative feedback, just some wishlist I hope I'm not the only one with the same remarks.

My remarks are all about esthetics/readability , packaging and indeed two freezes of the device .

Readability:
Lots of text comes up when modifying a parameter, and all this info is in the same font, the same height and the same color.

An example:
when changing time base or vertical sensitivity, the "title'  of the parameter (Channel 1/CH1, triggering) Source level and its value are in the same font, same color and NOT the color of the Channel (CH1, yellow).

I would prefer the value to be (at least) in the same color as the channel, in this case yellow.
The same goes for the other values like Time Offset and Time scale and this for all the parameters with chosen values so the values itself is quickly recognizable among all the text on the screen.
I also would like the chosen parameter in the top menu (ACQUIRE/DISPLAY/...)  to be highlighted/some color so that you easily see in what menu you are.

Also, I don't see the added value of repeating the same (measured values/settings on several places: the value of p.e. Source level is as well visible under the Trigger Edge menu (1,075V) as it is on the right menu under Source Level.
I find it very confusing and fatiguing.

Important values/Settings like divisions vertically and horizontally are somewhat hiding because not in the same color as the channel or any other difference with all the clutter on the screen. I always have to look for the right place to find something that should jump out of the screen because of its importance.

Packaging:

I have never gotten a new device that was not protected by a plastic around it.
This scope however was packaged naked in the foam protection which made quite some scratches on the left vertical part of the screen, precisely the part that is covered/sitting in the packaging. A plastic bag or screen protector could have avoided that.

Because of the same lack of a plastic bag, lots of carton dust was all over (and in the upper ventilation ribs) the scope.
Having to clean gently a (dirty) expensive scope when you just got is , is not to what you like to do in the first place.

I still have to verify if the scratches are definitive or not.

Screen freezes/hard reset:

Within half an hour, I got two screen freeze and could do anything anymore with the scope, no reaction whatsoever when touching the screen nor buttons, not even the soft start button on the lower right.

I had to use the mechanical switch at the back and reboot.
Like I said, it happened twice.

Strange measurements when using Measure:

When measuring the voltage of a battery in a device,  the frequency measurement shows 423 MHz.
There was only this data logger running on 3 * 1,5V batteries and even shutting down all other equipment, this value remained on the screen. No idea what is was picking up as my Siglent 2104X Plus did not.

I really hope this is considered as positive feedback and have all respect for a new device that normally would go through modifications as feedback from the field comes along.

[nctnico]

As always: what would you like to analyse with the scope?
Do you need in depth math functions?

Agreed. As far as my experience with Lecroy scopes goes: they are really, utterly great for analysis (like Swiss army knife ^2) but as a general purpose oscilloscope not so much. For starters, one missing feature is peak-detect to prevent aliasing on sub-sampled signals. Lack of peak detect can also lead to missing narrow pulses in a signal in turn leading to mis-interpretation. Think about measuring how many times per second an SPI device is accessed by measuring the CS (select) line over a timespan of several seconds to check uniformity in time while the pulses on the CS lines are in the nanosecond range. Without peak-detect it is possible the pulses won't show or show as irregularities.

[Martin72]

It's by no means really negative feedback, just some wishlist I hope I'm not the only one with the same remarks.

“Mine” should arrive today, then I can say something about the packaging, and tomorrow something about the other things.

[Andre77]

Dear Sorama,

Thank you very much for your feedback!

Packaging: Please excuse the carton dust was all over. The device should of course arrive in perfect, clean condition.
What kind of packaging did your Magnova have? We recently changed the packaging to a black foam. Was it this or was it still the self-inflating packaging foam? It should not be possible to scratch the glass with either. We will reconsider and improve our packaging.

Readability: The trigger level is permanently displayed as an important parameter in the trigger area. Furthermore, if the rotary encoders are currently being used for the trigger settings, it is also displayed there. I understand the problem that you are bothered by the double display and we will discuss this internally.
The channels are displayed in different places (Trigger, Math, Measurements, Decoder, ...) in the channel colour. However, they are not displayed in colour in the window titles. We will check how we can optimise readability.

Strange measurements: The frequency measurement is currently not yet limited to a minimum signal amplitude. So if only a DC signal is present, frequencies are still recognised and measured even in the smallest noise, which will always be present.
We will optimise our frequency measurement and possibly other measurements so that it does not react so easily to small noise.

Screen freezes: Of course this should not happen. Can you send us the support logs if it happens again? You can find them in the Settings -> Information -> Save Logs menu. This also works if the device has been switched off hard using the power switch on the back (or by pulling out the power cable).

You can send the logs or other suggestions or problem reports directly to service@batronix.com.

Thank you!

[Sorama]

It's by no means really negative feedback, just some wishlist I hope I'm not the only one with the same remarks.

“Mine” should arrive today, then I can say something about the packaging, and tomorrow something about the other things.

I'm glad 'you' bought one :-)

Looking forward to your valuable feedback about the technical performance/features of the scope.
(and of course also regarding my 'remarks')

@ Andre77,

Attached a picture of the unboxing of mine.
It was the black foam and the scratches are only on the left side of the display, just where the foam covers the glass (vertical band of a few cm's)

Regarding the colors and visibility:
my feedback is not only about the triggering, but more in general: the measured values of chosen settings (like timebase and vertical divisions) would preferably be in the color of the channel (yellow numbers for CH1), just to distinguish it from the text/parameter just above the value. This way it's easier to find the measured value or the set value amongst all the other text on the screen.

[tooki]

Packaging: Please excuse the carton dust was all over. The device should of course arrive in perfect, clean condition.
What kind of packaging did your Magnova have? We recently changed the packaging to a black foam. Was it this or was it still the self-inflating packaging foam? It should not be possible to scratch the glass with either. We will reconsider and improve our packaging.

Regardless of padding type, there is absolutely no question that the screen should be protected, either by a protective film or a plastic bag. Unless you assemble and package them entirely in a cleanroom, you can never rule out a speck of abrasive dust landing on the screen and getting ground into the display in transit due to vibration.

I would use a bag, though, since this also protects the unit against humidity changes in transit. Heck, the worst case is someone’s box ends up with some small holes in the cardboard during transit, and then gets left in the rain by an idiot delivery person. If bagged, there’s still a decent chance the scope will stay dry. Without it, the scope gets soaked. A frequent occurrence? No. Nonzero? Definitely.

[KungFuJosh]

there is absolutely no question that the screen should be protected, either by a protective film or a plastic bag.

100% should be both a protective film and a plastic bag (usually with silica gel pack(s)). That's standard. Sometimes the bag will also have a small hole punch or two.

[ralphrmartin]

One minor UI issue, perhaps me rather than the scope. I wanted to find the cursors to measure something. I expected to find them under the "measure" item, but no, they are under the list where you choose channels, triggering, etc.

To me they are a kind of measuring tool, but I suppose to Batronix they are "something to be shown on the screen or not", like the channels...

[Martin72]

I'm glad 'you' bought one :-)

Unfortunately not bought, they just lent it to me, thanks to Batronix for that.
But I have it for a little longer, so I am hopeful that I will be able to test and/or confirm some things that others have tested.
Anyway, it just arrived and even though the temptation is great, I'll let it acclimate until tomorrow.
About the packaging:
Yes, even with mine, the scope is simply fitted into the molded parts without any additional protection – they should change that very soon.
I also have stripes of the foam on the left edge of the display, maybe they can be wiped off.
The box is also a bit flimsy, to the touch.
Then I unpacked it:
Three first impressions: first of all, it is surprisingly compact, very pleasant despite the large screen.
The rotary encoders:
Two feel “rougher” to turn from clicking, two feel “finer”...Is that intentional?
Then the workmanship, only one word for it:
Excellent, the aluminum housing is quite unique in this price range.
If Dave almost freaked out because of the aluminum handle of the Siglent, he must not get his hands on the Magnova without taking a good dose of valium first.
Really excellent look and feel, apart from the encoder thing.
More impressions/pictures at the weekend.

[Sorama]

Do I see some dust on the scope ??
 

The carton box is not particular thick, if that is what you mean with flimsy.
My box was also damaged (hole in it) because of transport (DHL) : no wonder if you see the low quality of the carton box.

[Martin72]

if that is what you mean with flimsy.

Exactly, there is still room for improvement in the packaging.

[Andre77]

Yes, even with mine, the scope is simply fitted into the molded parts without any additional protection – they should change that very soon.

Yes, we will improve that very soon.

The rotary encoders: Two feel “rougher” to turn from clicking, two feel “finer”...Is that intentional?

We use two different types of rotary encoders. Encoders 1 and 3 are for the offset and other position settings. Due to the low detent torque, large ranges can be travelled through more quickly and the setting feels smoother.  Encoders 2 and 4 are for the scaling settings and have a much stronger detent torque. A stronger feel for selecting individual steps is desired here.

This proved to be ideal in our usability tests, but I understand that this may feel unexpected at first.

[Martin72]

Ah, that's clever!
Thanks, Andre!

[ebastler]

We use two different types of rotary encoders. Encoders 1 and 3 are for the offset and other position settings. Due to the low detent torque, large ranges can be travelled through more quickly and the setting feels smoother.  Encoders 2 and 4 are for the scaling settings and have a much stronger detent torque. A stronger feel for selecting individual steps is desired here.

This proved to be ideal in our usability tests, but I understand that this may feel unexpected at first.

Have you considered using two different diameters for the knobs? If encoders 1 and 3 had smaller knobs, it would be even easier to spin them quickly. And different knob sizes might help in setting user expectations, by making it obvious that the two types of controls are different.

It's common on scopes, of course, for the pairs of vertical and horizontal controls -- large knobs for the stepped "rotary switches" and small knobs for the offset/position adjustments -- so it would not look unusual. But might look less "clean" than the four identical knobs the Magnovas currently feature?

[joeqsmith]

As always: what would you like to analyse with the scope?
Do you need in depth math functions?

Agreed. As far as my experience with Lecroy scopes goes: they are really, utterly great for analysis (like Swiss army knife ^2) but as a general purpose oscilloscope not so much. For starters, one missing feature is peak-detect to prevent aliasing on sub-sampled signals. Lack of peak detect can also lead to missing narrow pulses in a signal in turn leading to mis-interpretation. Think about measuring how many times per second an SPI device is accessed by measuring the CS (select) line over a timespan of several seconds to check uniformity in time while the pulses on the CS lines are in the nanosecond range. Without peak-detect it is possible the pulses won't show or show as irregularities.

Sorry for the disruption and off topic.  See link below

Teledyne LeCroy WaveAce Lab1: Capturing Signals page | 8 of 8
A sampling acquisition samples the waveform at uniform time intervals. A rapid variation in the signal
such as a narrow pulse may therefore be missed. In Peak Detect the highest and lowest values in the
signal are recorded so allowing even narrow pulses to be captured.

https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/tutorials/waveace_lab_capturing_signals.pdf

[nctnico]

As always: what would you like to analyse with the scope?
Do you need in depth math functions?

Agreed. As far as my experience with Lecroy scopes goes: they are really, utterly great for analysis (like Swiss army knife ^2) but as a general purpose oscilloscope not so much. For starters, one missing feature is peak-detect to prevent aliasing on sub-sampled signals. Lack of peak detect can also lead to missing narrow pulses in a signal in turn leading to mis-interpretation. Think about measuring how many times per second an SPI device is accessed by measuring the CS (select) line over a timespan of several seconds to check uniformity in time while the pulses on the CS lines are in the nanosecond range. Without peak-detect it is possible the pulses won't show or show as irregularities.

Sorry for the disruption and off topic.  See link below

Teledyne LeCroy WaveAce Lab1: Capturing Signals page | 8 of 8
A sampling acquisition samples the waveform at uniform time intervals. A rapid variation in the signal
such as a narrow pulse may therefore be missed. In Peak Detect the highest and lowest values in the
signal are recorded so allowing even narrow pulses to be captured.

https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/tutorials/waveace_lab_capturing_signals.pdf

Lecroy WaveAce series aren't real Lecroy scopes but rebadges from (older) Iwatsu and (newer) Siglent. So it is logical they have features the real Lecroy scopes don't have. Typically the lower end scopes offered by Lecroy are rebadges.

[Geofrey]

I ordered mine (BMO-200) last week. With some luck I will get one with better protection of the screen. Packaging is easy to overlook, but definitely not easy to do right. Shipment often gets rough...

Is there any plan to add USB (1 or 2) to the list of decoded and triggered protocols ? Not a deal breaker, but nice to have.