LCR meter questions and maybe recommendation.

[mawyatt]

The DE-5000 can display Z as well as other important circuit parameters at a resolution not available on the built-in display when connected to a computer!!! The fact that it does not show this data on the display does not diminish its value as a full-fledged LCR meter. Whether you take advantage of these opportunities or not is up to you. I, for example, use it and I don't suffer from it at all.

The DE-5000 CAN NOT DISPLAY Z, as we stated!!

Having to add another device to the DE-5000 does not diminish the fact that it CAN NOT DISPLAY Z directly!!

If one wants the Z parameter, then one must attach a USB cable to the DE-5000, then connect to a computer, then start up the computer, then a communication program and so on. This is not the same as having turn on the the DE-5000 display Z stand alone in 5~10 seconds!! The information is available within the DE-5000 but the firmware does not support displaying Z!!

Maybe the firmware will get an update and display Z and 1/Z, sure hope so, but in the meantime we'll just use our TH2830 or IM3536 when we need to display Z

Best,

 

[indman]

Maybe the firmware will get an update and display Z and 1/Z, sure hope so, but in the meantime we'll just use our TH2830 or IM3536 when we need to display Z

I don't have a TH2830 or IM3536, so I will use the DE-5000 for Z readings with a computer and USB cable if I need to examine the circuit in more detail.

[mawyatt]

The DE-5000 is a great handheld, and we've said so many times!! The Special Chip Set utilized helps keep the cost down and reduces power consumption, important for a handheld, but does not perform any special measurement "magic", altho it's quite accurate as we've compared to our Lab Grade Bench LCRs many times.

Inferring that it can DISPLAY Z is wrong tho, it can't and requires a computer and cable to display Z on something other than the DE-5000 itself!!

The Special Chip Set limits the frequency range and frequency resolution, which I don't think can be improved by a firmware update. Hope to be proven wrong on this tho

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

I have the DE-5000, it was my go to LCR for years. The Shannon ST42 retired it. Then I got the (improved) ST2832, which is superior to all of the LCRs I've ever used...and I still use the ST42 (which has Z on the tiny display). DE-5000 is nice in its own right, but it doesn't compare...especially if you need to tether it to another device for useful functionality.

[tautech]

ST42 is a great device and we are to market them in NZ and showed our sample to many at the recent EMEX show in Auckland. Many were surprised such a device could offer so much capability and several firm orders were taken.

A week or so before when visiting member and buddy hendorog he got out his Agilent HH LCR meter to compare against ST42........a couple of minutes later, get me a set was the firm reply.

[Martin72]

ST42 is a great device and we are to market them in NZ

Ah, then everything is clear.
I don't want to spoil your business, you know that.
But you have to make things clear and one thing is that the ST42 (in my eyes) is not enough to cover everything, but that is exactly what is always suggested.
The obvious thing is that mechanically alone you reach your limits when it comes to measuring normal wired components.

[tautech]

ST42 is a great device and we are to market them in NZ

Ah, then everything is clear.
I don't want to spoil your business, you know that.
But you have to make things clear and one thing is that the ST42 (in my eyes) is not enough to cover everything, but that is exactly what is always suggested.
The obvious thing is that mechanically alone you reach your limits when it comes to measuring normal wired components.

For 2 decades I have spread SMD tweezers wide enough to measure all manner of components.
With ~50mm possible not much is exempt from obtaining a measurement and I have soldered wires on larger components .....

In time you will find these capabilities. 

[Martin72]

If I buy the ST42, I will also test it and report on it, you should have that in mind.

[KungFuJosh]

If I buy the ST42, I will also test it and report on it, you should have that in mind.

🤣🤣🤣 We all know it's when, not if. 😉

I have no interest or benefit from praising the ST42, and I also believe they're great. Like any TE though, know it's uses and limits.

Attached is the inductance measurement from when I was still using buggy firmware on my bench LCR. The ST42 helped with sanity checks and finding the issues (that were eventually corrected) in the bench LCR.

[Martin72]

We all know it's when, not if

The fact that I hate talking about things I don't know personally, unlike quite a few people who have no problem doing the exact opposite, makes the way I do my hobby a bit more expensive.
But for the “good” of all forum members.
And yes, I have just bought the miracle part for 143€.

[KungFuJosh]

We all know it's when, not if

The fact that I hate talking about things I don't know personally, unlike quite a few people who have no problem doing the exact opposite, makes the way I do my hobby a bit more expensive.
But for the “good” of all forum members.
And yes, I have just bought the miracle part for 143€.

I've made a few of those purchases. Some of them are your fault! 😉

[rwgast_lowlevellogicdesin]

I didnt know the de5000 had an app, i dont mind using an app to see all that extra info.. im going to look in to it a little more, the screen shots of that app make it look like the best bet. Do i need to buy/make an ir thing to use the app or can will it work via USB?

Using an app is still much less of a hassle than setting up a VNA and 50ohm fixture or Scope/AWG to bode plot it. I do wish it could measure smaller inductances, but that is gonna be a problem with any meter under 500 bucks.

[mawyatt]

Would be interesting to see how well the ST42 stands up against our TH2830, IM3536 and DE-5000. We have some precision SMD components that would make a nice comparison.

Maybe we'll tackle this at some later date 

Best

[KungFuJosh]

Would be interesting to see how well the ST42 stands up against our TH2830, IM3536 and DE-5000. We have some precision SMD components that would make a nice comparison.

Maybe we'll tackle this at some later date 

Best

See my reply above #33. The ST42 is what I used to help compare and work through the buggy firmware I had on the 2832 before it got corrected. I could send you one of the test charts if you want, they're also in the bench LCR thread.

Within it's specified limits, the ST42 was on point for everything I tested it with.

[rwgast_lowlevellogicdesin]

Its nuts to me an impeadence analyzer or top end LCR meter still costs so much money! I mean fast ADC and DDS chips are so much cheaper these days. Hell you can buy a 6ghz 2 port VNA for 600 bucks, but no one makes a 100mhz Z/LCR meter for under a grand..

[KungFuJosh]

Its nuts to me an impeadence analyzer or top end LCR meter still costs so much money! I mean fast ADC and DDS chips are so much cheaper these days. Hell you can buy a 6ghz 2 port VNA for 600 bucks, but no one makes a 100mhz Z/LCR meter for under a grand..

Do you mean 100kHz? a 30MHz LCR will cost you around $20,000.

[rwgast_lowlevellogicdesin]

No i mean 100mhz, my point is there is no reason a fast lcr meter is so much when a 6ghz VNA can be had realtively cheaply.

[KungFuJosh]

No i mean 100mhz, my point is there is no reason a fast lcr meter is so much when a 6ghz VNA can be had realtively cheaply.

Show me a 100MHz LCR for $1000 and I'll buy it. Also try looking at the hardware that goes into making either of those devices, you're comparing apples and Toyotas. I'm with you though, I wish a quality high frequency LCR meter existed for a reasonable price.

[rwgast_lowlevellogicdesin]

If i were better at math i would take the project on.. it seems to me you could build one with a fast ADC, a Zynq, and some hi speed opamps. Thats what 300 in parts at the higher end...

[tautech]

No i mean 100mhz, my point is there is no reason a fast lcr meter is so much when a 6ghz VNA can be had realtively cheaply.

Milli Hertz ?

Sorry but you are beyond help if you cannot make the effort to use the correct denominators on a technical forum.
What example are you setting for others ?

I'm outta here.....

[indman]

But you have to make things clear and one thing is that the ST42 (in my eyes) is not enough to cover everything, but that is exactly what is always suggested.

Totally agree with this opinion. I have ST42 and it is a convenient and good tool when you need to quickly find out the parameters of SMD parts.
But it has, along with its advantages, also a number of limitations. For example, the upper operating frequency of the test signal is limited to 10kHz, unlike the DE-5000.
Shannon has promised to release a 100kHz tweezers, we will wait for it. The HB15(16) smart tweezers, which were sold in the Russian segment, has an upper operating frequency of 250kHz test signal, which significantly extends its range of application. Yes, it costs twice(3) as much as the ST42, but it has twice(3) as much capability. The analog of this smart tweezers in your market is labeled LCR Reader-R2. https://www.lcr-reader.com/r2.html
 

[indman]

I didnt know the de5000 had an app, i dont mind using an app to see all that extra info.. im going to look in to it a little more, the screen shots of that app make it look like the best bet. Do i need to buy/make an ir thing to use the app or can will it work via USB?

Check out this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-the-de-5000-software-useful/ 

[coromonadalix]

for theses  lcr prices and ranges, the DE5000  is more than enough,   mastech have one based on the same ic's  but more expensive

hantek have 2 models,  you have some TE430 series,  some Keysight, Uni-T  and many low mid models    etc ...

all of theses will do a good job up to 100 khz         

higher than that you need bench based ones ....  and you know the price will rise fast

and yes  some of them have control sw for them ....


special cases like Sencore LC-102 103    can output up to 1kv  for capacitors, but their prices  are oooooff    no SW for them

happy with an DE-5000  with open and short calibration on each power up ...


but if you did really write  milli hertz ..... that's another story

[shabaz]

If the requirement is to measure at 100 MHz, then there's always the VNA. The accuracy is in a far more restricted measurement range, but at least it's affordable. Obviously doesn't replace a high-end (tens of $k) LCR meter. Another bonus being that if desired you could test the inductor in a bigger network as it will be used, e.g. filter, etc., rather than a component in isolation.

The set-up time with the VNA is long, but it would equally also take time setting up a decent measurement with LCR or impedance meter. They all use fixtures and require nulling-ing out/calibrating, etc, for accurate results. LCR meter short/open procedure can take ages across the frequency range.

Example screenshot shows a DIY wirewound inductor measurement (approx 400 nH) with a VNA, the dot shows the measurement at a spot frequency, and you can also see the resonant frequency.

Back to the accuracy, sometimes that's not actually needed, as long as the circuit is tunable, and just as important (or more important) might be checking the ballpark at a frequency, and then measure the overall response or output in-circuit, with VNA or sig-gen, 'scope, etc.

[chilternview]

Also if you're measuring at VHF, you could look at the HP/Agilent 4396B. It's always puzzled me why these weren't more popular, as not only are they a VNA, a spectrum analyser but also an impedance analyser. In the last mode, you can measure L,C,R,Z,theta, D, Q etc vs frequency from 100KHz to 1.8GHz. And also extract equivalent circuit parameters, e.g for an inductor not only the L but also series R and parallel C.

Obviously for non-RF applications the bench LCR meter is going to be easier to use and more accurate, or handhelds like the DE-5000 for quick less accurate checks, it all depends on what you're trying to measure.