Keysight's new 34465A (6.5 digit) and 34470A (7.5 digit) bench multimeters

[Tom45]

So when my 34465A arrived I saw this label on the box:



So if it hadn't been sold before May 1st would they have pulled it from the shelf and tossed it into a dumpster? Donated it to homeless people?

Tom

[andtfoot]

So if it hadn't been sold before May 1st would they have pulled it from the shelf and tossed it into a dumpster? Donated it to homeless people?

Or maybe recalibrate it.

[LaurentR]

So if it hadn't been sold before May 1st would they have pulled it from the shelf and tossed it into a dumpster? Donated it to homeless people?

Tom

Congrats on the purchase.

I think it has to do with Warranty and Calibration.
When I registered my 34461A, they gave me a warranty expiration 42 (36+6) months from _manufacturing date_. They didn't use (or even ask for) the sale date. So to guarantee their standard 36 month warranty, they have to sell the unit within 6 months of manufacturing. I assume it also helps making sure that units still have a fair amount (I guess that's >= 6 months) left on the 1yr calibration.

I had another experience buying a Keysight HH DMM that we later found out had been sitting on a shelf for 4 years. When I tried to register it, Keysight marked it as out of warranty. Had to return it to the dealer and they got me a fresh one directly from Keysight. I assume dealers are required to sell fresh inventory or return it for refreshing (e.g. recalibration).

I don't know if this 42 month policy is official but that seems to be how it works in practice. It's certainly easier to deal with than trying to track the sale date.

[Tom45]

Thanks for the explanations. The issue of calibration and warranty intervals hadn't occurred to me but now with your explanations it makes perfect sense.

The sticker not only ensures that old stock doesn't doesn't get sold to the end user, but it also helps the distributor keep fresh stock by knowing to ship the oldest units first.

[EEVblog]

I've added photos of the front panel.

[6thimage]

Thanks Dave - that's helped identify U403 (the so8 above the NXP microcontroller) as a dual voltage comparator and tells us that the flash memory hasn't changed in size (still 128 MB, but with a different part number). Also the rs232 converter (U102) has changed brand from Maxim to TI.

I think that's all we will be able to tell, without the front panel being removed.

[KedasProbe]

......
But either way, firing someone for a name choice seems a little excessive.

OK, let's just reassign that person to marketing.
Oh wait.......nevermind.

[LabSpokane]

What is up with all the complaints about the fans?  Do you guys have bionic hearing or something? Or do you have the meters backed directly against a ultra-noise reflective wall so all the noise is bouncing back to you? 

I have solid metal behind both my meters, so I should have the worst noise problem possible and both my meters are literally less noisy than a whisper. I'm sitting here with an iPhone dB meter (granted, not super accurate).  My ambient noise level is approx 20dB - far quieter than any office I've been in - and having two meters running adds maybe 2-3 dB at the front of the meter.  The keyboard that I'm typing on is noisier than the fans. My oscope's single fan is noisier than both fans combined.  Yes, it's a bit higher frequency noise, but it's so far below any typical background noise, I can't understand all the complaints/comments/worries about it.

[babysitter]

@Labspokane: About every Datasheet and application note for precise voltage stuff recommends against fans and suggests to supress any air drafts in the proximity as good as possible. The reason is preventing thermal emf in sensible areas.

[LabSpokane]

Babysitter,

I understand drafts, but this is constant, forced convective flow.  And what's to say that HagilSight didn't test it both ways and found the fan better for most purposes?  It just seems like a lot of what we call "armchair quarterbacking."  If they didn't have a fan in there, everyone would be on here complaining that the device didn't come into thermal equilibrium with the test environment quickly enough.  And my very modest experience with the devices are that once one measures in the 100 uV range, the lab and devices need to be as temperature stable as the meter anyway, so I still am not seeing the huge downside to the fan. 

It just seems like this huge assumption that the HagilSight failed to due their due diligence with the design, so the only remaining argument I could understand was noise. 

Just my 0.02 ...

[AndyC_772]

What is up with all the complaints about the fans?  Do you guys have bionic hearing or something? Or do you have the meters backed directly against a ultra-noise reflective wall so all the noise is bouncing back to you?

No, it's just a pitch that I happen to find objectionable.

By comparison, my 6632B power supplies and MSO-X3000A scope are louder in absolute terms, but annoy me less.

[babysitter]

@LabSpokane: The only valid assumption is that the labs comply to the datasheet specification, as the user needs to infer the performance of his own setup out of this. Also, those data sheets and app notes haven't changed

(I consider KeySight very capable but not perfect, I have been one of the 34405A victims at work which was almost unusable for remote operation for a long time until f/w was fixed. But that was a unneccesary mess-up, in a different leage of DMMs.)

The 3458A also has a fan and a long history, so it is proven that you can make quite a nice thing out of this design and there are hints that they reused a lot in the 70A. But in both, there is space for tiny changes to bump up specs. This is not necessarily failed due dilligence.

[Vgkid]

The early hp3456a had a fan.

[HighVoltage]

I think the 3458A also has a fan
My 34461A is really quiet and does not disturb me at all.

If you want to know what fan noise is, get a Lecroy WaveJet scope 354
That sucker was so loud, I returned it.

Some of my Agilent power supplies had some annoying noise level and I exchanged the fans to low noise types.

[rosbuitre]

So if it hadn't been sold before May 1st would they have pulled it from the shelf and tossed it into a dumpster? Donated it to homeless people?

Tom

Congrats on the purchase.

I think it has to do with Warranty and Calibration.
When I registered my 34461A, they gave me a warranty expiration 42 (36+6) months from _manufacturing date_. They didn't use (or even ask for) the sale date. So to guarantee their standard 36 month warranty, they have to sell the unit within 6 months of manufacturing. I assume it also helps making sure that units still have a fair amount (I guess that's >= 6 months) left on the 1yr calibration.

I had another experience buying a Keysight HH DMM that we later found out had been sitting on a shelf for 4 years. When I tried to register it, Keysight marked it as out of warranty. Had to return it to the dealer and they got me a fresh one directly from Keysight. I assume dealers are required to sell fresh inventory or return it for refreshing (e.g. recalibration).

I don't know if this 42 month policy is official but that seems to be how it works in practice. It's certainly easier to deal with than trying to track the sale date.

Hi
The warranty on the website of Keysight after registering the 34461A is until 2018, but in the invoice of the official distributor in Argentina contained only one year, I must complain to keysight?

Regards?

[LabSpokane]

HAgilSight isn't perfect to be sure (I have worked with them as a client years ago and have seen good and some bad), but they generally do high quality work. I'm assuming that instead of perfection, that the designers reached the best engineering compromise.  Just like we all do.  :-)

[HighVoltage]

Today my Keysight 34470A arrived from a German distributor.
Interestingly it also had this label on the outside of the box, to sell it before May 1st 2015
I have no idea why!

After unpacking, I had it warmed up to lab temperature for about 2 hours and then turned it on.
After a few hours of warmup, I hooked the instrument up to a 2.500 V DC reference.

In comparison:
Both 34401A instruments in the picture are calibrated late 2014
The 34461A was bought calibrated new in December 2013
The ACAL was pressed on the 34470A before measurements got started

Having the extra resolution on the trend chart is really something.

Next, I will hook up my SVR-T 10V reference and keep it running for 24 hours

[JohnnyBerg]

@HighVoltage: I like it, especially the results you are showing from the 2.5000V reference 

What was the temperature in the lab? (I suspect 21° ~ 22°)

[HighVoltage]

@HighVoltage: I like it, especially the results you are showing from the 2.5000V reference 

What was the temperature in the lab? (I suspect 21° ~ 22°)

@JohnnyBerg, You are fast!
Yes, Lab Temperature is shown at 21.8 degree C right now.

[Dr. Frank]

Congratulations! Really looks nice! Especially compared to these old dogs..
Frank

[bson]

Got my 65A and am wondering about the bundled probe kit; it has a pair of R-B mini pincers, but only included a black hook.  I'm wondering if a red hook might have been missing?

[radioFlash]

Got my 65A and am wondering about the bundled probe kit; it has a pair of R-B mini pincers, but only included a black hook.  I'm wondering if a red hook might have been missing?

The kit doesn't include a red hook, which is a pretty cheap ass thing to do for a $1400 meter.

[LabSpokane]

Got my 65A and am wondering about the bundled probe kit; it has a pair of R-B mini pincers, but only included a black hook.  I'm wondering if a red hook might have been missing?

The kit doesn't include a red hook, which is a pretty cheap ass thing to do for a $1400 meter.

You didn't want it anyway.  Those hooks are worthless shit. They should just ship the meter without anything so that you'll know that you need to buy decent accessories.

[LA7SJA]

Any news regarding the new 34461, 34465 firmware? I remeber reading that it was schedulet for release yesterday, or did I dream? 

[HighVoltage]

I kept the 2.5000 V reference hooked up over night and this is the result I am getting:
It looks to me,  that the reference and the 34470A are performing well.