Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[Carl_Smith]

A random prize draw based solely on a game of chance would be illegal in those jurisdictions. A draw which also requires skill, however, is not.

And it is my understanding that there is no standard for a certain level of skill, so they can simply ask something like "What is 2 plus 2?" And, the law might not even require that you answer correctly to "win" the prize.   

[Fred27]

(Fred parodied Sebastian with a fake quote)

Although this is obviously made up I do not apreciate genuine looking fake quotes - "it's just not cricket!" You can now take 7 days to just observe the forum and learn boundaries.

Simon
Moderator

Sorry. Point taken. I'm glad you realised I wasn't trying to mislead anyone, but I suppose I overdid things a bit.

It's difficult when you have to wait a week before you can even apologise!

[Macbeth]

Sorry. Point taken. I'm glad you realised I wasn't trying to mislead anyone, but I suppose I overdid things a bit.

It's difficult when you have to wait a week before you can even apologise!

Don't worry. To be honest I think the Seb W account has to be a total troll. The real Seb W must be too busy enjoying his scope right now, or reading the manuals in anticipation of receiving it...

The troll Seb W appears to have disappeared now anyway.

[kripton2035]

there are still 2 peoples that refused the scope they won.

[papousek]

unreasonable to pay tax.
i won a SDG1025 from Siglemt review campaign, they covered all shipping cost and tax thing, seems copy cat won!

[rx8pilot]

Do you think that Siglent will pay for taxes on $16k? Would Siglent give away $500k+ in a single month?

Keep in mind, Keysight is not getting the taxes. The various government agencies around the world are. Maybe if they would pay taxes - the would be 'Scope Week' not 'Scope Month'.

[Towger]

Rx8pilot, the Chinese and Western way of declaring a value on parcels are different ;-)

[ProBang2]

Do you think that Siglent will pay for taxes on $16k? Would Siglent give away $500k+ in a single month?

Keep in mind, Keysight is not getting the taxes. The various government agencies around the world are. Maybe if they would pay taxes - the would be 'Scope Week' not 'Scope Month'.

I am sorry for you, but you have to face it:

You, in the land of the free, have to pay tax.
We, in some other countries, have not.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

In Canada the law requires that all contests include a skill testing question. This has something to do with gaming laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill_testing_question

Often the company holding the contest will even give you the answer or hint you to it if it isn't already obvious enough.  The questions are often something like  what is  30/5 + 4  ... yes, that simple.

they could make the question "Work out how much tax you have to pay" that way killing two birds with one stone.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Anyone happen to have a copy of the Terms and Conditions one have to sign off on when accepting the prize? (not the one to join the contest)

[Howardlong]

Do you think that Siglent will pay for taxes on $16k? Would Siglent give away $500k+ in a single month?

Keep in mind, Keysight is not getting the taxes. The various government agencies around the world are. Maybe if they would pay taxes - the would be 'Scope Week' not 'Scope Month'.

I am sorry for you, but you have to face it:

You, in the land of the free, have to pay tax.
We, in some other countries, have not.

Which is interesting because the other posts about the way imports are taxed in Germany, by the government that you and your fellow countrymen and women elected, suggest differently.

As I have said before, you are being naive if you think that an internationally run prize draw such as this was not going to have some tax implications, and the more you keep complaining about it, the less likely organisers are going to want to do another one.

If you don't like the terms and conditions, don't enter. You will not be worse off than you were, so there's no need to complain.

In other news, well-known armageddon pundit Henny Penny reports that the sky is falling in.

[Howardlong]

Anyone happen to have a copy of the Terms and Conditions one have to sign off on when accepting the prize? (not the one to join the contest)

Attached

[RGB255_0_0]

Strange how Venezuela is on that list. Don't the US have sanctions on them?

[Towger]

Strange how Venezuela is on that list. Don't the US have sanctions on them?

It would appear only to government officials.  One of the Irish banks outsourced both it's domestic and international payment systems to an American bank a couple of years ago.  The fun that caused, international payments to embargo countries got blocked, which was not surprising.  But domestic payments to people and companies which names on various American watch lists also got blocked.  In addition people who made transfers between their own accounts which contained text like such as 'Cuba Holiday' had their transfers bounced.

[Involute]

That's some serious math you Canadians and South Africans need to know (from the contest Ts & Cs).  Better start hitting the books.  Funny that you're not deemed worthy of owning a scope if you can't pass the test.  ;-)

[SeanB]

That's some serious math you Canadians and South Africans need to know (from the contest Ts & Cs).  Better start hitting the books.  Funny that you're not deemed worthy of owning a scope if you can't pass the test.  ;-)

You obviously have not met the SA education system, where adherence to a dogma is deemed as much more important than such mundane things like say having pupils who are functionally illiterate yet who have a pass mark that qualifies them for university entrance. This test is merely a basic form of Turing test, to see if you are actually capable of either using a computer to research data and winnow the facts from the fiction, and of performing basic mathematics without needing a crutch like Google. I try as much as possible to do basic mathematics in my head, as it is good to keep those skills active. Helps to tell that the answer you got from "Da Komputah" is wrong, and you need to recheck the data in and the output.

[wizpip]

It might just be because I'm British, but this whole thread is a bit of a cringefest.

In terms of automating entries that someone mentioned, I'm a web developer and it'd be pretty easy to write a script to create millions of entries from various IPs, domain names, etc etc, but where's the fun in that? It's like god mode in any game you've ever played. You can play without it for hours and hours, but as soon as you can do anything it becomes boring.

I enter once daily, manually. And I wouldn't dream of complaining if I were to win!

[nihtila]

What is wrong with these Germans, they are even more negative than us Finns!

Ok, I am kind of tired of this tax discussion in another thread, as everyone seems to "know" how things go - yet there are 10 different answers. But I just want to bring another winner's experience on this, also for Keysight's sake.

So I won a 3104T and my experience goes something like this:
1. Yes, I did read the T&C and thought I will sort it out if IF I win. After all, it usually doesn't happen. Anyway, participating does not cost you anything yet, you can always decline the prize if it comes to that.
2. I happened to win this time, then I started checking the forms in more detail. I asked Keysight about the W8BEN forms cause I was a bit unsure regarding some items there. The answer was that they are going to use local distributors (when possible) and I do not need to return that form. I am only responsible for local taxes. I was aware of that but was thinking that I probably do not need to pay anything, and it seemed to be the case.
3. After few days KS called me that something unexpected came up (that they did not face in the previous giveaway) and there may be taxes. I was slightly unhappy but of course understood it. And still they told me that they are trying to sort it out. They also told me there is a possibility to choose a cheaper scope from the 3000T series if taxes become reality. I was happy with that as I thought I can pay £500-1000 as it is only for hobby use. That would get me an excellent scope - if not 1GHz.
4. Few days passed and I got an email that there will not be any taxes. I have now been contacted by the distributor as well. I do not know yet when I will get my prize.

Keysight has been very helpful sorting out the situation, and they always let me know what was the current situation. They really try their best to avoid the costs to winners, but of course everything must go by the books. And laws and regulations are different between countries so this may be "unfair" to someone. But then again, we have that condition in the form claiming the winner to be responsible for the taxes. I do feel KS has done more than they needed.

I hope the situation stays like this in my case. If there won't be any taxes, I most probably will keep the scope (although there is a temptation to swap it to a cheaper 3000 series scope and some money..). If there still will be some surprise taxes, I will sell the scope or try to swap to a cheaper model. I am feeling lucky and I see this as an opportunity to start building a serious hobbyist home lab. 1G should be enough for an audio guy 

edit: I still do kinda understand the whining about the taxes, it is also something I am not used to. Like someone said, it is more like a discounted product than a prize. But you buy a product when you need it, prize is unexpected. Even though 15k scope for 4k is a bargain, it is still waaayyy beyond most of our budgets. And we would never buy that expensive scope in the first place. But in this case the great thing is that KS offers possibility to swap the prize to a cheaper one; that should give possibility for all winners to choose a scope fitting their budget.

[HighVoltage]

What is wrong with these Germans, they are even more negative than us Finns!

Ok, I am kind of tired of this tax discussion in another thread, as everyone seems to "know" how things go - yet there are 10 different answers. But I just want to bring another winner's experience on this, also for Keysight's sake.

I am German in Germany and I don't get this "tax" talk either.

About a year ago, I won a 34461A Keysight multimeter and a full BenchVue version.
It was delivered to me by Fedex from the USA within a few days and I did not pay anything, not even shipping.
Thank you again Keysight !
Even if I had to pay the VAT, I would have accepted the prize.
And for those who can or will not pay the taxes, just do not accept the prize.

[Brumby]

What is wrong with these Germans, they are even more negative than us Finns!

Ok, I am kind of tired of this tax discussion in another thread, as everyone seems to "know" how things go - yet there are 10 different answers. But I just want to bring another winner's experience on this, also for Keysight's sake...........................

This is what I've been waiting for - a real example.

Keysight HAVE to cover themselves on the issue of tax - but are obviously keen to minimise this impact on prizewinners wherever they can.  As to how they address such things internally ... who cares?

Let us know what the final outcome is ... and, if I may ask, can we have a photo of it on your bench, please?

[nihtila]

Let us know what the final outcome is ... and, if I may ask, can we have a photo of it on your bench, please?

Sure. It will look good next to my £50 Chinese power supplies on an Ikea shelving unit 

[Brumby]

It won't look good .... it will look magnificent!

[firworks]

At least here in the US, I didn't think you paid the taxes immediately. I thought at the start of the following year you get a... 1099? Form and that states you had additional income in the year. You have to include that in your income figure for your taxes. If that's the case winners could start to set aside a little money each month from now till then to cover the extra tax burden. Or, they'd have plenty of time to sell the scope and that would cover the taxes and also probably let you buy a cheaper scope so you'd still be coming out ahead with a scope.

This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

[nihtila]

At least here in the US, I didn't think you paid the taxes immediately. I thought at the start of the following year you get a... 1099? Form and that states you had additional income in the year. You have to include that in your income figure for your taxes. If that's the case winners could start to set aside a little money each month from now till then to cover the extra tax burden. Or, they'd have plenty of time to sell the scope and that would cover the taxes and also probably let you buy a cheaper scope so you'd still be coming out ahead with a scope.

This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

I am not sure if prizes are counted as income in any other countries than the US, at least not in Europe. So the case is different. However, I still don't know if they can charge it afterwards. Basically as we are talking about VAT, the taxman would be after the distributor, not the winner. But then again, as the winner has signed release form, KS can ask the winner to pay this - but how long time after the winning? But I kind of (want to) believe that the case is closed when the prize is given.

And once again, if you win, you can choose a cheaper model.

[Fred27]

I'm still waiting for Sebastian to insist Keysight pay his eBay fees when he sells it...