Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[SebastianW]

Hello,

has anybody won the Scopemonth? I was very happy to win, but I do not know if there is an advantage, I have to pay at least 19% VAT in Germany.

I know that Dave got his Oscilloscopes for free, no taxes,... . This is due to the fact the he got it from the local representative, the winners get it from Malaysia.

Best Regards,

Sebastian

[TheSteve]

You're under no obligation to accept the free prize.

Paying taxes sucks but I know if they draw my name I'll happily pay the taxes (12%) to get receive the scope.

[rx8pilot]

We do 'Demo'  units all the time with low or no value. For marketing quantities it seems to be fine and its legal. For units with value, it has to be claimed. Keysight must stay in good standing.

How is FREE a marketing ploy?  You have to pay tax if you purchased with your own money.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

[rfeecs]

I'm not  a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?

So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.

Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

[EEVblog]

I keep saying, I found mine in the dumpster. I did not win anything.

Companies send me free gear all the time, why Keysight can't do that to with the winners?, one word, lawyers.

[Carrington]

21% + extra customs taxes, for Spain.
So, easily more than an 25%. Yeah, 1/4 of product value! 
However Spain is out the contest, no idea why.


BTW congratulations Sebastian.

[rx8pilot]

Don't enter, and don't accept the prize. Today they drew two because someone declined the prize.

To me 50% discount is good and I actually NEED to the scope to step up my small business. I have all the tax issues worked out and planned for so that I can actually be thankful for a win.

None of this is a new concept.

[Bud]

My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS. Your local import fee and local tax is on top of that, and perhaps your local tax wont apply if your country is with a free trade agreement with the US. I'd very much like to see a post from a winner who actually received the prize to tell us how much he ended up paying.

[Bud]

US income tax is 30%, not sure if as a german I have to pay because its shipped from Malaysia

It does not matter where it ships from, i buy parts from Element14 paying Canadian tax and get parts shipped from Malasia.

[ebastler]

My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS.

That does not seem to make sense. Income taxes apply to a country's residents, i.e. they are applied on the receiving end of a financial transaction. If e.g. I were to perform a contract job for a U.S. company, working from home in Germany, I don't see how U.S. income tax could be relevant. Similarly, I don't see how Keysight would be obliged to collect or deduct U.S. income tax if they send a scope to a winner who is based outside the U.S.

[TheSteve]

My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS.

That does not seem to make sense. Income taxes apply to a country's residents, i.e. they are applied on the receiving end of a financial transaction. If e.g. I were to perform a contract job for a U.S. company, working from home in Germany, I don't see how U.S. income tax could be relevant. Similarly, I don't see how Keysight would be obliged to collect or deduct U.S. income tax if they send a scope to a winner who is based outside the U.S.

He was talking about American's. In the US all lotteries are taxable.

[Howardlong]

Do you know that you will have to pay the duties? When I purchased a scope from Keysight's eBay store, it was shipped from Malaysia DDP, "Delivered Duty Paid", an international tax term where the sender pays the duty up front (in my case, I was of course charged the cost of the scope plus all taxes and duties by Keysight).

[LaurentR]

I won one of the 10 BenchVue prizes in the Dream Bench sweepstakes.

Full set of licenses. $2400 fair market value. At my seriously high marginal tax rate (thanks California), that's a lot of taxes for sw that I mostly have no use for.

I suspect a whole pile of people declined the prize before me and will do so after me.

[Bud]

My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS.

That does not seem to make sense. Income taxes apply to a country's residents, i.e. they are applied on the receiving end of a financial transaction. If e.g. I were to perform a contract job for a U.S. company, working from home in Germany, I don't see how U.S. income tax could be relevant. Similarly, I don't see how Keysight would be obliged to collect or deduct U.S. income tax if they send a scope to a winner who is based outside the U.S.

He was talking about American's. In the US all lotteries are taxable.

I was talking in general. For instance this is a quote from http://www.lotteryusa.com/lottery/FAQS.html

Q. What taxes are non-US citizens subject to after lottery wins?

A. Should a non-US citizen win a lottery prize, they are subject to federal withholding taxes for non-US citizens, which is 30% of their winnings. While this amount may vary depending on which state the winning ticket is claimed in, the amount that non-US citizens are taxed is very similar to that which is applied to US citizens.

[TheSteve]

Keysight could not even tell me the value with the options.

I mean, what do you expect from Keysight,  they drive around in their Porsche  and BBQ Oscilloscopes. Very arrogant,  but maybe that is the message: "Most arrogant company on the planet " . At my site we got at least 70 Oscilloscopes, most are Tektonix and Lecroy,  I think I begin to unterstand why.

Sheesh, you must be the more miserable winner ever. Why did you bother to enter the contest if you don't even want the prize?

[Bud]

SebastianW, I do not understand you either. It was your decision to play.

[kripton2035]

I read somewhere recently that they send the prizes from the local representatives, so may be no tax ?
would like to know if it is true !
that's why only countries where they have representatives are allowed to play the game.

[ElektroQuark]

Quote from: kripton2035 on Today at 08:59:47

I read somewhere recently that they send the prizes from the local representatives, so may be no tax ?
would like to know if it is true !
that's why only countries where they have representatives are allowed to play the game.

It would be no import duties, but there are other taxes, it's an income you has to declare as your salary.

[marber]

I would love to have the KS MSOX4104A, but I can't afford the tax. I would have to sell it. Paying 5-10k € is too much.

Selling is an option you have, making a pretty good profit. And yet you're still complaining about getting ripped off?! KS isn't receiving the tax your government requires you to pay.

[Howardlong]

Sebastian.

I would be patient and wait to see if there are any taxes at all to pay.

Either way, I do think it's rather ungracious to have entered a competition, where the terms and conditions are stated ("6. Taxes. All federal, state and/or local income and other taxes and duties, if any, are the winner's sole responsibility"), and then when you win that ~EUR20,000 prize you blame the competition organisers because your government, the one you elected, tax the prize.

Here are your options:

1. Wait for the prize and if you don't want to pay the taxes, then just don't accept delivery;
2. Tell Keysight you can't accept the prize now, and they'll re-draw, just like they did yesterday;
3. Offer the prize to someone else in return for them paying any taxes directly on your behalf plus some consideration of your choosing for your trouble.
4. Pay any taxes and sell the scope at a significant profit.

None of these have any downsides for you.

There are an awful lot of people who would love to be in your position, to say you're sounding rather ungrateful would be an understatement.  What a tough First World Problem to have to deal with!

[hendorog]

My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS.

That does not seem to make sense. Income taxes apply to a country's residents, i.e. they are applied on the receiving end of a financial transaction. If e.g. I were to perform a contract job for a U.S. company, working from home in Germany, I don't see how U.S. income tax could be relevant. Similarly, I don't see how Keysight would be obliged to collect or deduct U.S. income tax if they send a scope to a winner who is based outside the U.S.

He was talking about American's. In the US all lotteries are taxable.

I was talking in general. For instance this is a quote from http://www.lotteryusa.com/lottery/FAQS.html

Q. What taxes are non-US citizens subject to after lottery wins?

A. Should a non-US citizen win a lottery prize, they are subject to federal withholding taxes for non-US citizens, which is 30% of their winnings. While this amount may vary depending on which state the winning ticket is claimed in, the amount that non-US citizens are taxed is very similar to that which is applied to US citizens.

I find it hard to believe that a non-US resident winner of the scope would need to pay US tax.

[RobertoLG]

I think you got that wrong, if you are in the US, but aren't a citizen, you pay that amount, am I right?

[bookaboo]

P.S. Dave said he "found it in the dumpster". Why can't they handle it the same for me?

I told the story already to colleques, they were shocked because I was close to getting ripped off by  Keysights price. The company I work for is doing a lot of electronics,... .

Go have a word with your boss then, they can reclaim all the VAT.... then I'm sure they can find you something like a 4Ch Rigol from their "dumpster" that meets your needs. Technically thats all above board and everyone wins.

[Towger]

I read somewhere recently that they send the prizes from the local representatives, so may be no tax ?
would like to know if it is true !
that's why only countries where they have representatives are allowed to play the game.

Exactly.  Or to be more percise in tbe EC there should be no VAT, as VAT is a tax on consumer spending. This is providing the prize comes from Keysight or their local distributor within Europe. This does not appear to hold true if they send the prize directly to you from outside the EC area. However, there may be a tax on prize winnings in you local country. In the US they treat it as income, so you pay income tax, some other countries have gift of windfall taxes as well.

[RobertoLG]

@sebastian

I think you should be patient for now and just wait what they come up with, maybe it's better than you think